Voting with my wallet

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Originally Posted by ZXSoru

Look at Guild Wars 2 cash shop, from the beginning they said that the shop was cosmetic only, and after two years it still is, the only thing close to p2w are the resource tools

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I'd disagree here. You have boosters you can buy (though admittedly they are available in-game too), and the tools still break that tenant of "Cosmetic Only". The severity is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

At this point, there's no point arguing.

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Especially considering that after making some posts that seriously lack in knowledge of how the gaming market works, and having been called on it, you're trying to cover it up by misprepresenting the position of those that proved you wrong.

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It is clear there are many that post here that either want P2W or F2P and are supportive of a cash shop, because they know - and everyone reading their comments knows they want to use the cash shop and see it expand.

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This is a serious strawman argument.

Not having problems with a cosmetic-only cash shop, which is becoming a standard for P2P MMORPGs nowadays, does not in any way indicate wanting pay to win or free to play.

If you find yourself unable to argue against someone else's position without misrepresenting and warping it beyond recognition to make it easier to tackle, you should probably just realize that you're wrong and withdraw.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

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Credibility is lost when ignorance is shown, which was blatantly obvious in the post you linked (and multiple other of your posts) but hey, feel free to call me on my credibility if you've got facts that contradicts my stance. It's pretty hilarious though that everyone who seems pissed at getting called out can never back up their argument with facts, just emotions which around here, seems to be the only thing they think they need to be "right", especially for people like you who are quick to blame Square Enix for every little problems with the game, as shown in the very post you linked (Square Enix is to blame for my routing issues !:rolleyes:) .

In the end, Square Enix will still release the shop no matter what the alarmists and doomsayers will say and they'll keep on panicking while everybody else enjoys the game http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...ilies/wink.png

At this point, I really don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else of anything. It's pretty clear that the people on the pro-cash shop side are staying pro-cash shop unless conditions change, and the people on the anti-cash shop side are staying anti-cash shop unless conditions change.

It's pretty obvious that the cash shop is coming and it will be here to stay. There is enough support for it to cancel out the opposition to it, so there's really not much reason to continue fighting. If you are fervently against a cash shop, it may be wise to take a page from the OP before it's too late and just abandon ship now, because no amount of outrage will be heard while the cash shop remains purely cosmetic and aesthetic.

All this thread is doing is creating animosity between the entire community over a feature being introduced that has equal support and opposition, creating a toxicity that there's really no need for.

All you Anti-cash shop people. I know the kind of stuff you're going through. Really, I do. We may not agree on the implementation of a cash shop for a wealth of reasons that will neither sway one side or the other. But I have been in your shoes before with earlier topics, namely those having to do with topics involving tomestone gear upgrade items being stuck inside of Coil. I *hated* that Sands of Time, Oil of Time, and Unidentified Allagan Tomestones could ONLY be acquired in Second Coil up until 2.3. That was absolutely unacceptable. But no matter how unacceptable I found it to be, I knew that I couldn't change things.

And you know what? In 2.4, history's repeating itself with gear upgrade items being exclusive Coil drops. Seriously, as someone who can't find a static group even to clear T5, f**k that noise. But I have to deal with the fact that the hardcore elites who have raiding FCs and Statics can get not only i130 gear that drops in Coil, but every kind of i130 gear months before I can even start working towards it. They all get first dibs because I don't have a reliable raiding party. You want to talk about fairness? Shelling out three bucks for a stupid minion has NOTHING on being shafted every other patch just because I can't find a raiding group. And you know what else? My problems with not being able to find a raiding group are just as valid as your problems with not wanting to pay a little extra for cosmetic items that affect absolutely nothing other than appearances.

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Originally Posted by gorror

One of the main attractions to joining this game was that it was one of the only p2p mmo that did not have a cash shop.

I oppose a cash shops in games that charge a sub fee, there for with the announcement that this game will add a cash shop while still charging us monthly i have decided to cancel my sub.

I am posting this as feedback to SE, should the cash shop be scraped or taken out in the future i will resub. But until then you have lost a customer.

I will not be posting in this thread, people are welcome to discuss whatever they want in it but i will not respond to anyone.

Thx for the fun SE, i hope i can come back some day.

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The amount of money Square Enix is going to make from the cash shop is going to astronomically crush any amount of loss from people upset about the matter and unsubscribing. You'll have one less game to enjoy that's it.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

The amount of money Square Enix is going to make from the cash shop is going to astronomically crush any amount of loss from people upset about the matter and unsubscribing. You'll have one less game to enjoy that's it.

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And he'll have the pride of sticking to his convictions.

Bye Felicia

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Originally Posted by Rjain

The amount of money Square Enix is going to make from the cash shop is going to astronomically crush any amount of loss from people upset about the matter and unsubscribing. You'll have one less game to enjoy that's it.

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This is why it is pointless to argue - because as much as I dislike the cash shop, the market has proven this will happen. It's why we all know where the cash shop will lead, because the market has shown what people will pay for and SE will provide what people will buy. It's the reason that promises make no difference - money is all that matters, and all you have to do is look around at other games to see where the market will take this game.

OTOH, once the game is F2P, I will probably come back!

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Originally Posted by Felessan

Actually selling vanity items is like selling lvl 50 cap or twintania win in 2.4. yes, it can be considered as P2W, but it is content nobody really care about and it's not touch current relevant content, even those that are old but not yet very old, like T9.
And quite a lot of people cheat the proper way of attaining win anyway by buying Twintania run.

Yes, it is bypassing content, But this content is not even a midcore ground, it's straight in the casual territory, and I really don't think they there should be so much anger and hussle about content lying in the casual crowd territory.

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Buying a level capped character through real life money transaction even from the developer is very much a P2W and not vanity which is damaging to the community and the game.

The point of leveling other classes to level cap is you help both the economy through gathering and crafting lower level items while leveling it (DoL/DoH) which benefits other players who did not cheat their way to level cap. Leveling a new class helps new players by also having someone to play with and do lower level dungeons and such when in the sense of DoW/DoM classes instead of lacking in people to play with or help along the way for those who didn't buy their max level characters. Those who buy their way to max level tend to avoid low level content and focus only on the endgame they cheated their way to with real life money.

So buying a max capped character is damaging to the entire game in many ways and especially damaging to the new players who do not P2W in buying their characters at cap level with real money.

WoW has had a steady decrease in subscribers for a long time but the exodus was only hastened with P2W options such as buying level skip to 90. If SE added such an option to FF14 I would quit too, if they keep it pure vanity only items such as pets, mounts and such then I am fine with it. WoW is not an example that should be followed these days unless you to wish to do more damage than good upon this MMO, it is still hemorrhaging players at a very high rate. Do not repeat the same mistakes WoW made.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ cash shop

OTOH, once the game is F2P, I will probably come back!

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So once the game "goes free to play", a game model where they generally do employ "pay to win" purchases, you will come back? Because buying vanity items was so upsetting?

As Abriael stated before, your augments are becoming more and more desperate, grasping for straws where there are none to make claims that make zero sense.

If you're leaving, good riddance. This game doesn't need subscribers that are so fickle and upset over such pointless things.

An optional cash shop won't tank the game, it will only provide more revenue for the developers to add even cooler content to the game. The 3.0 presentation has already blown my mind as to what they are capable of doing with this game, I don't mind tossing them a few bucks here and there for cool items (I have been doing this since FFXI) especially knowing it will fund even more innovative ideas.

WoW implemented their cash shop a very long time ago, and they are still to this day at the top of the MMO food chain. You all need to chill the hell out with your doomsday prophecies.

If everyone is so upset for even the smallest idea of Pay 2 Win, then shouldn't they have quit right from the beginning? The Warrior of Light Helm gives a 10% EXP increase from lvl 1 to 10, and you get it by spending extra money. That's pay 2 win in essence, is it not?

But really, the whole point is moot since at the moment there is no reason to assume we will have pay 2 win items. Let's freak out AFTER we know it will happen.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

If everyone is so upset for even the smallest idea of Pay 2 Win, then shouldn't they have quit right from the beginning? The Warrior of Light Helm gives a 10% EXP increase from lvl 1 to 10, and you get it by spending extra money. That's pay 2 win in essence, is it not?

But really, the whole point is moot since at the moment there is no reason to assume we will have pay 2 win items. Let's freak out AFTER we know it will happen.

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How many games with cash shops didn't dip into pay-to-win? The only one that comes to mind is Path of Exile, and even that is walking a very fine line with storage tabs.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

The amount of money Square Enix is going to make from the cash shop is going to astronomically crush any amount of loss from people upset about the matter and unsubscribing. You'll have one less game to enjoy that's it.

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Likely so, though I would point out that for most of the people who are leaving, they likely don't enjoy the game that much to begin with. Catering to the mainstream makes good business sense, but you won't attract certain gamers when you do this. It's a choice SE has clearly made, and they'll profit from it - but they'll lose some of their customer base in the process.

My thoughts on this are fairly basic - FFXIV is being designed with accessibility in mind. This is probably the most obvious principle that SE keeps in mind with any particular decision they make. This also results in a particular type of game, which in turn attracts a particular segment of gamers. Given that XIV is also a "spiritual successor" to both FFXI and XIV 1.0, it's important to note that the community ARR attracts is quite different from the community that embraced XI and XIV 1.0.

As a result, a lot of people, myself included, embraced ARR initially before slowly realizing that the game didn't appeal to us. The cash shop is just the latest item we don't like - but it's a fairly visible one, easily vilified. It's a creation that is largely tolerated / embraced by the crowd that ARR is targeting - which doesn't include some of us that loved XI or 1.0. So, as a result, there's a lot of friction on the forums for the moment. It's not that any side is "right" or "wrong" - it's just that some of us don't like how ARR is being developed. This assessment is relatively independent of the business side of things, so the argument about SE being a business is somewhat irrelevant.

Ultimately, those of us who dislike ARR's direction will likely leave. That's our right as consumers, and a sacrifice that SE is knowingly making. That said, many of us will continue to make our views known on the forums, as is our right - so as to let SE know, in an angry fashion or not, that we dislike what they're doing to a title we wanted to enjoy. There's no point in "arguing" with this feedback; it's not directed at other players (in general), nor is it an argument that can be won, by either side. It's simply a result of individuals voicing their opinions in a public fashion.

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Originally Posted by Freyar

How many games with cash shops didn't dip into pay-to-win? The only one that comes to mind is Path of Exile, and even that is walking a very fine line with storage tabs.

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When most MMO's are doing bad, they either shutdown or become F2P with a cash shop. In order to survive, they need to add a lot of attractive items to their cash shops so that people will buy them, even if it means adding Pay to Win or Almost Pay to win items or a Premium subscription mode which gives them advantages over other players.

FFXIV 1.0 was a disappointment to many, but instead of shutting down or switching to a F2P + Pay to win model, they removed the subscription for a time until they fixed many major issues, then they decided to make a massive overhaul of the game and release it again. How many of these games did that? Most of the games that I played and went F2P with a cash shop were pretty much "We're not doing so good anymore, let's not try anything new and just go F2P with a cash shop."

Why do you compare games that didn't try with this one?

Ughhh this again.....
Why must everyone exiting insist on making a dramatic exit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1Hnv4nRsnA

That cash shop for vanity is NO different from exclusive items that you get from buying certain versions of the game for extra cash. These same people raging, stayed.....
So SE has to offer CDs, and a Collectors edition so those ppl will not whine? I dont see the Coeurl or Fat Choco mounts offered in game like the demands here...

No ones world has crumbled just because they do not have access to those mounts, a Helm of Light, or a Cat Sith minion......
The market has spoken (given the number of ppl who DO have those items and paid the EXTRA MONEY to have them)... and it doesnt care. So QQ more and quit over silly things that do not effect you unless you want it to.

There is a very specific reason games go F2P..... And it is when the game cannot hold a profitable subscription model.... Not because it gives vanity items in cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

Why do you compare games that didn't try with this one?

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Because the likelihood of FFXIV managing to pull off the impossible twice is not high.

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Originally Posted by Freyar

Because the likelihood of FFXIV managing to pull off the impossible twice is not high.

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So, basically you have no reason other than "Just because."? Okay then.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

So, basically you have no reason other than "Just because."? Okay then.

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Are there other games out there that have tried to relaunch as a subscription title? Please give me an example of a game that launched, failed miserably, shut down for a year, and relaunched to success as a subscription-based title.

The only reason this waste of a thread is even here is because it's the weekend.

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Originally Posted by RoninDarkchild

Ughhh this again.....
Why must everyone exiting insist on making a dramatic exit?

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The question you SHOULD be asking is "Why do people (including myself) insist on bumping the thread and make it over 15 pages long?"

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

The point of leveling other classes to level cap is you help both the economy through gathering and crafting lower level items while leveling it (DoL/DoH) which benefits other players who did not cheat their way to level cap. Leveling a new class helps new players by also having someone to play with and do lower level dungeons and such when in the sense of DoW/DoM classes instead of lacking in people to play with or help along the way for those who didn't buy their max level characters.

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The price tag is too restrictive to make a difference on a large scale, thus the real impact for low level activities will be around zero. Actually I see that most people who'll use it comes from the crowd that already gave several other classes at 50 level, and this people usually have means just to skip everything you mentioned and go for "optimized" levelling route.
I don't see it included now as game is still expanding, but at something like 5-6th anniversary, when playerbase is already stabilized - they'll probably add it.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

WoW has had a steady decrease in subscribers for a long time but the exodus was only hastened with P2W options such as buying level skip to 90. If SE added such an option to FF14 I would quit too, if they keep it pure vanity only items such as pets, mounts and such then I am fine with it. WoW is not an example that should be followed these days unless you to wish to do more damage than good upon this MMO, it is still hemorrhaging players at a very high rate. Do not repeat the same mistakes WoW made.

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WoW decline for most part have nothing to do with decisions that were made, it's just way too old already. MMO tends to have a major decline from its peak number on their 10th anniversary and there is not much to do to battle this. Games become old and people just get tired with the same game for many years.
Most "successfull" MMO peaks out at their 5-6th year, be it WoW or Everquest/UO/FF11, and than gradually start declining.

Wait so your telling me your quitting the game because they added a optional feature to the game? if they made the stuff on the Cash shop like say you can only get say dark knight via this way then I understand your plight but if its just items that increase say exp or gil or the current service on the moogle station then i say its fair and just because its not forcing me to buy it.

The way the op is acting is somewhat to a childish mentality you will get no pity from me and I say good ridden's your leaving it means 1 less person to complain.

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Originally Posted by Dreklore

if they made the stuff on the Cash shop like say you can only get say dark knight via this way .

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http://www.whats-thesayinganswers.co...ck-on-wood.jpg

I'm probably kidding...

Can I have your gil, your items, your house, and your chocobo?