Can you please Ease Up on Atma now?

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Then you don't understand how Atma works.

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Forget it.
You're banging your head against the wall with people like him.
I can sum up Atma in a single sentence: You're either lucky or you're not.
Get God dang sick and tired of people saying "You're not trying hard enough"
or "Well Derp lord got his in 3 days!" Well Jesus, some of us don't wanna run around
like a chicken without a head all day and pray to the RNG Gods all year.
This is why I brave the storms with Levi EX in DF. I know I at least have a chance at something...whenever I complete it that is lol.

Took me five days to get my third piece of atma. I barely slept for those days too, staying awake and at the computer with energy drinks in a very unhealthy way that could well have killed me if i were Korean.

All in all, i had 2 straight weeks of atma grind to get mine, i don't work, so that's a lot of time spent on it. I recently got my relic bow but until the atmas are sorted in some manner to make it less pure luck, i don't think i'll be going in for round 2 of atma farming.

More farming, less complaining. It works.

I bet SE will make it make another way to get ATMAs by Lv50 3 star HQ crafting items that aren't buyable. And the cherry on top, each class can only craft 2 so you have to level all crafts to 50 then make the items needed to craft available via Gathering only.
LOL I hate ATMA farming

There really is no reason to ease up on the Atma drops. It is suppose to be an arduous task - it requires commitment, endurance and patience.

Please don't ask to make this game any easier than it already is.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Please don't ask to make this game any easier than it already is.

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And another person who seems to think that gambling is difficult.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

And another person who seems to think that gambling is difficult.

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Try and explain that to these people.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Try and explain that to these people.

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Very funny. Next you're going to say drinking alcohol or smoking is difficult, because people can get hopelessly addicted to that, too.


With Atma farming, skill doesn't matter in any way. Low chance of success doesn't equal difficulty. If the game is too easy for your liking, ask for more Extreme mode challenges, not for ridiculous RNG.

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Originally Posted by Apricoth

It is suppose to be an arduous task - it requires commitment, endurance and patience.

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Okay, then explain why the Nexus is the easiest step compared to Atma (and everything else).

I never said it was difficult. I said "please don't make this game easier" (paraphrasing). In this case "easy" was to imply the opposite of "hard". Hard meaning: requiring a great deal of endurance or effort. I think we agree that the "ridiculous RNG" you are referring to requires a deal of endurance, so arguing semantics is pointless. "Easy" is a synonym of the word hard, and what you are trying to imply with your rhetoric is invalid.

That being said, making it easier would undermine the work others have already put into their relics, and it would not be fair. Also, they made the quest this way in effort to force people into doing fates, so if someone actually wants to level with fates, they won't be alone all of the time. This will not, and should not be changed. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Apricoth

There really is no reason to ease up on the Atma drops. It is suppose to be an arduous task - it requires commitment, endurance and patience.

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Because if you want to retain customers, the best way to do it is to make things as arduous, mind numbing , and unfulfilling as possible.

Honestly laughing at all these posts trying to compare it to other stages that have either 100% success upon completion of that part (Animus) or a much higher success rate that even when a bust happens its not a total loss (Novus). Then top it off with the fact that there are those who are still grinding (still, not one day, not two weeks) being called lazy since the other players got lucky on their drops.

Hell, since we're so bent on comparing it to the other steps, lets make it like Novus. We carry around an alexandrite when attempting for the atma and have 100% success for the first few, then clink it down to ~50-60% chance near the end ones; and just to add some 'grinding skillz' to it, have us carry 2 Alex midway, then 3 for the end ones. Completely the same thing, right?

If everything was simple or easy to do, would you find it rewarding?

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I think we agree that the "ridiculous RNG" you are referring to requires a deal of endurance, so arguing semantics is pointless.

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Only for some people. Some others can get 12 Atmas in a single day, by being lucky.

A system that demands completion of 50-100 Fates per Atma per zone requires effort. A system that may give you what you need after 1 or after 1000 Fates requires luck.

I think it's both sad and hilarious that you say it "would undermine the work others have already put into their relics, and it would not be fair", but somehow think it's fair that person A gets their 12 Atma in under 100 Fates total while another goes over 100 Fates without a single Atma drop.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Only for some people. Some others can get 12 Atmas in a single day, by being lucky.

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Some people win the lottery too, or become movie stars. If someone gets all 12 that easy then they probably deserve it because their karma must be like that of the Buddha. You're acting like 50% of the people have it that easy, when in actuality, it's more like .00000000000005%. In general when you are faced with a 5% chance 12 times, the majority of people are going to average pretty close to 5%. Use this and see how many time you can land five or under in close proximity of each other 12 times.

lol we're talking about nerf'ing solo-able content that consumes indefinite amount of time, and i'm sorry but i don't see that as severe as nerf'ing content that affects an entire raid which by the way something they already did... getting i110 is not that heavily RNG dependent anymore, however atmas on the other hand are very RNG dependent, so all is being asked is to make it less dependent in order for other people to enjoy the relic quest, how is that so impossible?

Took me 5 weeks at 3+ hours a night to get my ATMA completed. Fact is, it's not for everyone, the weapon is truly rare due to the RNG. Accept it. There are alternatives if you don't have the willpower to push through.

Grinding atma was supposed to be for casual? Well, I've tried it casually.
Ever since atma came out, I've done FATE here and there naturally without forcing it.
So, when I'm in a area for longer than just passing through, I end up doing 1~5 FATE (just like any casual player can afford to do on average).

In addition to that, I've occasionally had weekends with more focused grinds (30+ FATE).

How many atmas do I have? 2

In conclusion, this definitely isn't content for casual players. A casual player would require so much time just to get the atma, that going for Animus, Novus, etc. is simply not realistic.
(Estimating the average here, not talking about the lucky few or super unlucky ones.)

And as many have stated previously, it's not even fun to be stuck grinding the same low level content. I've done those FATEs when I was leveling up my classes, why kicking us back in?

Yoshi-P says the game is like a theme park and you choose the content that you like.
Well, let me compare atma (and other challenge-less endless grinds) to theme parks: waiting in line for hours to get in an actual attraction.

I've never seen anyone getting excited at waiting for hours in a line-up. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...lies/frown.png

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Originally Posted by Mijin

If everything was simple or easy to do, would you find it rewarding?

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The Atma weapon did not feel rewarding at all, because most of the time we were fighting LOW LEVEL monsters.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

If everything was simple or easy to do, would you find it rewarding?

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Clearing chimaera -> titan back in october for my first ever relic was rewarding and had an actual meaning. They went downhill from there, simply recycling old content masked by a new shiny quest detailing you of your next unappealing, sometimes expensive journey, instead of actually adding something that feels like a reward.

So to answer your question, atma can be easy to do, it can also be hard. Either way, no, it doesn't feel rewarding beating the hell out of level 5 toads in lower la noscea.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Okay, then explain why the Nexus is the easiest step compared to Atma (and everything else).

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They are supposed to increase in time required to complete. Atma and Animus being pretty lame on variable to complete. Novus requiring up to75 days, if you have the materia, to complete. Nexus requiring a variable of time that can't really be determined.

The hardcores are not the rule for relic acquisition. I'm sure that's not intended for you to get Nexus in 30 hours but instead 30~60 days.

Although, enough about the digital wang-swinging, if the Japanese don't find this a massive problem it's unlikely it'll hold much sway. Although, it would also need the same amount of backlash as pre-2.0 Warrior.

If you were here during that time, Warrior was so terrible under powered that it was impressive that you could win anything with it. People are amazed when the Binding Coil of Bahamut was cleared with TWO Warriors in party. So generate the amount of complaint that happened during that time and maybe there will be a change to atma. However, I don't believe that'll happen. Why? Simply not enough people are complaining or there aren't enough who care.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

If everything was simple or easy to do, would you find it rewarding?

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If the gameplay involved is fun: yes.
If the gameplay is crap: no.

Farming Lv 5 Fates is boring, piss easy gameplay that people can and most likely will use bots for.
NOT a design any healthy game designer should strive for.

I play games to have fun.
I get these feelings when I down a difficult boss in a team effort.
But with RNG crap like Atma? Only one line of thought: "Thank GOD I am done with this... onto more interesting stuff!"

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Originally Posted by Granyala

But with RNG crap like Atma? Only one line of thought: "Thank GOD I am done with this... onto more interesting stuff!"

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And playing the RNG on getting people who could dodge and didn't suffer lag was fun?

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Originally Posted by Amberion

And playing the RNG on getting people who could dodge and didn't suffer lag was fun?

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I only raid heroics with my guild in WoW.
In this game I sadly cannot raid due to very unreliable EU latency.
Tried Titan Hard once... getting hit by stuff I already went out of = me not a happy camper. :/

I still don't understand people against this idea, which makes sense for me, especially since 2.4 is coming. Seriously, what is the point of doing Atma grinding in 2.4 when you would be able to have a i110 weapon in 1 day (1 or 2 ST to obtain UAT and a Sand, plus 1500 soldiery which would have its weekly cap removed)?
I did 2 Atma sets. The first one needed 80 hours of no brain fate grinding. The second one: 30 hours. Lets assume I was really unlucky, and only 15 hours are needed. This time would be more than the time needed to obtain a i110 weapon from scratch!
i110 will become the standard at 2.4, so a huge nerf of <i110 relic states is needed.
My proposal:
- remove Atmas (which just give an artificial ilvl up)
- reduce the price of each Atma book to ~500 sold, and remove the rng dependant (Fate) part
- increase Alex drop rate and remove the daily lockout of the quest which give 1 Alex at the end.

It is meaningless to keep a timesink on outdated stuff (the argument "I suffered for this, you you have to" is invalid: stop being selfish).

Honestly they should, because -everything- else is easier to do when new content has been released. Even the other stages have been made easier over time, because the content needed to progress has been made easier.

The only "challenge" to getting Atma is the abysmal drop rate.

I don't have mine because when I -am- logged in (full time job, here) there is just plainly more stuff to do that is less time consuming AND more fun than grinding low level fates for atma.

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Originally Posted by TimeDilation

We grinded hard spending countless hours getting atmas. Why should u get the easy way out? Blame it on RNG? Suck it up and grind if you got time cry on the forums. Don't discredit the ppl who worked hard to finish their relic as lucky. We all worked damn hard for it.

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'We' is not much if an option now. When atma quest first started 50+ people were zerging fates down in less than 2 minutes a lot of the times... It is different now, this doesn't happen anymore. The quest should evolve with the game if it is going to be mandated to get to the current stage of the quest line.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

And that doesn't sound lazy. >w>
Just swat at a FATE for 30 seconds and let someone else finish it for you.

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Smart people do this. Dumb people will try to finish every FATE one at a time.

You can get Atma, even on failed FATEs.

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Originally Posted by ZReport

Smart people do this. Dumb people will try to finish every FATE one at a time.

You can get Atma, even on failed FATEs.

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That's lame. :B

As far as I can tell, the people defending Atma grinds do so because they seem to have this idea that "Because I went through this much trouble, everyone should as well." It's some sort of bizarre fist-pounding contest with people not wanting something to be more accessible to others. It's stupid.
Atma grinding is just the start of an already long and annoying process to upgrade your relic, but it shouldn't be such a grind like this because a lot of people can't even FINISH it.
They can't get to the actual content because of this mind-numbing, not-fun-at-all grind that takes hours and hours of ridiculous FATE hunting just to OFFICIALLY start.
It needs to be more accessible to start it. Increase the drop of Atmas, so that we can do the actual hard part of getting the upgraded weapons.
The grind isn't difficult, no, but some people actually prefer having fun in a game, rather than trying to catch a bunch of worthless FATEs for 20+ hours only to get -nothing- to show for it.

I love how no one ever acknowledges my statement of:

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When Developers of a game create content, they should ask themselves this question:

"Would the players or myself do this content without any reward at the end?"

If the answer is yes. Add the content.
If the answer is no. Revamp the content to be fun.

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What's wrong with asking for 15-30 hour long content that is both fun and challenging?

I did the entire Manderville questline from start to finish in about an hour and a half (a little longer because of afk breaks and such). That was a fun quest. It wasn't challenging, but the rewards were a pet, a dance emote, and a ton of funny cutscenes to watch. That is how you make content.

You make them FUN. Then you assign them a challenge based on the reward. But the FUN comes first.

No one can explain why Atma shouldn't be a fun 15-30 hour challenging questline. They can't. There's no argument for that. Even opponents to the idea of changing it will NOT have the intestinal fortitude to debate my point. Because they know they are in the wrong. They got theirs and want everyone else to suffer. It is only cynicism, selfishness, and spite that motivates their argument.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

No one can explain why Atma shouldn't be a fun 15-30 hour challenging questline. They can't.

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That would require reworking the ENTIRE portion of the relic chain post +1. That's why no one is contesting it.

Just bring back LUCK as a stat and at least we can FEEL somewhat in control on this crap.

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Originally Posted by ZReport

Smart people do this. Dumb people will try to finish every FATE one at a time.

You can get Atma, even on failed FATEs.

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thats an odd way of spelling A***holes.

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

I don't get why you're complaining.

My raid member started his Atma gathering on Tuesday.
He has the Summoner Atma Book by Friday. He did not stay up all day or night. He simply did them when available.


...99% of the threads I've seen haven't spent enough time on atma farm.

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Was Atma farming with Kusari-Chan for several weeks, averaging about 5 hours per day.... somtimes in the same zone.

spent 5 hours in middle la noscea with kusari chan
got 2 ram
she got none.

its not a matter of 'time'. Your continued claim of such is sheer ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

What's wrong with asking for 15-30 hour long content that is both fun and challenging?

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Because that would require actual DEV effort?
Slapping a super low RNG droprate on preexisting content, forcing your players to relive it for RNGesus knows how long is about as cheap and easy as you can make it.
Too bad that the Asian community adores such gameplay, that's why they can get away with it time and time again.

In this particular case, you also have the added benefit of making the world seem alive and allowing the few remaining lowbies to be very active on fates they often could not complete solo or duo.

So, from what I see in this thread...

Some people still mistake easy/hard for short/long. If beating up low-lvl mobs with your 1-5 combos is actually hard for you, you probably haven't even done the Relic Reborn questline when AK was not yet nerfed (not to even mention the other parts of it).

Some people seem to think that some others just "want an easy way out of it". On one hand, that's understandable if so: Atma is outdated content, and stuff that came even after that has already been nerfed a lot, so why not this? On the other hand: re: easy/hard and short/long, the problem isn't the difficulty level, it's the lack of sense of progression. In every other part of the whole relic questline, you know where you are at any given point in time. (Animus might be "harder", but you'll know how much you have left to do. Novus melds can fail, yes, but you still retain the alexandrites.) With atma? Yeah, you might have 11 already and only need 1, but that one might as well take longer to acquire than the 11 before - as good a chance of that happening as getting it in the very next FATE. It's just stupid.

Some people seem to justify it with being rewarded by the Relic Atma weapon. The only true part of that is for the level of difficulty, the level of "reward" seems to be in balance: a recolor and an ilvl number bump for beating up low-lvl mobs. The problem is that it's not a "reward", it's a win. You haven't been training to get better to eventually finish something that requires skill, you are just throwing yourself at a rock with the label "luck" on it. That's something casinos are for. Not to mention that by the time you win it, you're most probably sick of even the markers of FATEs on your minimap and you don't even feel happy about it, just sigh and feel relieved it's over. (Compare Zenith: that recolor + ilvl bump, which actually bumped stats as well, was far more straightforward to obtain, even when you couldn't yet pick myth tomes off every orange tree in La Noscea.) And hey, if you love farming FATEs so much, there's nothing stopping you to just go out there and do it. You'll also be adequately rewarded with GC seals.

Some people seem to think that because they "worked hard" for it, it shouldn't be made any easier for those who are still to do it. Well... sorry, but you haven't worked at all (especially those that claim they got theirs in a matter of few days, with like 1-200 FATEs). You showed perseverance, I'll give you that - but anyone who commits themselves to the relic questline, commits themselves to doing just that. But, once again, atma is outdated content and it will continue to grow even more outdated - or are you saying nothing you've managed to do in its original form should ever be changed? (And hey, if they do drop out halfway, why would it hurt you? It'll be their lost time and energy, not yours.)

FATEs were designed for casuals - anyone can pop in any time, everyone's free to ignore them. The fact that they were turned into grinds by hardcore powerlevellers is one thing (XP rewards being higher than what you could get in dungeons, for example), but that doesn't mean everybody loves this kind of grind. In fact, like I said, many I know have hated it back then already. You think open world would be so dead that we have to be forced back to such content if people liked doing it? But it's not a solution to the problem; it's a band-aid slapped onto it that if you scratch, you'll see the ugly wound beneath.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Some people still mistake easy/hard for short/long.

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Well in an MMO there are 2 reward schemes:
Reward time invested.
Reward skill.

Both have their purpose and both appeal to a different audience.
There is nothing wrong with an easy but time consuming grind. You still need to put in effort and show dedication in order to succeed.
However if only raw RNG decides whether you get your reward or not, while making dude A do 3x the amount of work dude B did, because dude B got lucky, that's crappy and unfair design and shouldn't exist in games.
At least not w/o a safety net to keep the amount of effort similar for everybody.

Real life is often unfair enough when it comes to luck, we don't need that in games. (personal opinion of course)

Real Talk.


I stopped playing when 2.2 hit because I wasn't into the Atma Grind at the time, plus lots was not known about it. I took a break from the game and came back two weeks ago. Now I play quite a bit every day, but my time is split between a lot of activities. I help FC members with things they need done, and sometimes end up just afking awhile looking at the forums and other websites. In the last two weeks I've Capped i90 gear on near all 9 of my jobs, and started gearing out my main. I ran through the Atma quest on my main and am nearly done with upgrading animus, while also getting ready to work on the second. I also Zenith'd all the remaining relics I hadn't. I still feel Atma is a terrible grind. I've been having fun working on the Animus (at a rate of a book a day,) and am looking forward to the Novus.

My FC mate just hit 50 about the time I came back, and we ran her through all her Relic quest to get her Relic, and then she was able to immediately Zenith it. Not a day or two later she was also full i90, and had unlocked roulettes. The way the game is set up is to allow people to catch up so that there are more players able to play at the "current step" of content, but right now Atma is a real wall to this concept.

While personally it didn't take me long I can see how frustrating it can be to others who are having trouble finding those certain few. There are strats that can help speed it up a little; like tagging all fates in the zone to make sure you get at least fail on all of them, and thus more chances for Atma, but it still takes quite a bit of time if you have bad luck. Most of the time I spent grinding Atma was in South Thanlan. It just wouldn't drop, but my FC mate who came to help me fight Return to Cinder for my Animus book got one; the first fate after getting Zenith.

That's how luck works. Just bare with it, and hopefully they'll increase the rate some. Now I need to get back to doing my other 8 (soon to be 9 with Nin..) Relics.