2.3 Frontline What do we know?

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

They didn't remove stats from the Allagan gear and level sync the new Coil encounters to deal with the gear disparity between new and veteran players. They brought the new people UP to speed rather than bringing the veterans DOWN to speed. Why is it that in PvP it's acceptable to bring the veterans down to the level of beginners when they could instead give the beginners better stepping stones to reach the high levels?

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They are bringing new players up to speed which is what Frontlines is, it's the stepping stone to Wolves Den. Wolves Den (Coil) was released before Frontlines (CT), you might have to wait for your Second Coil.

Greetings,

As this seems to be a thread discussing information on Frontline, I wanted to stop in and just supplement that knowledge with a couple of things.

• Chat channels
  While participating in Frontline, certain chat channels will be restricted.
  
  • Tell/LS/FC chat channels
    It will not be possible to use these chat channels as we would like to prevent players that are in different Grand Company groups from leaking information such as player position, job setup, etc.
    
  • Say/Yell/Shout chat channels
    These chat channels will be available for use while in Frontline; however, only your group will be able to see it.
• Queuing
  As long as you are part of the same Grand Company, you’ll be able to queue up with others.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

As this seems to be a thread discussing information on Frontline, I wanted to stop in and just supplement that knowledge with a couple of things.

• Chat channels
  While participating in Frontline, certain chat channels will be restricted.
  
  • Tell/LS/FC chat channels
    It will not be possible to use these chat channels as we would like to prevent players that are in different Grand Company groups from leaking information such as player position, job setup, etc.
    
  • Say/Yell/Shout chat channels
    These chat channels will be available for use while in Frontline; however, only your group will be able to see it.
• Queuing
  As long as you are part of the same Grand Company, you’ll be able to queue up with others.

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Thank you for the additional information. Looking forward to Frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Camate

As long as you are part of the same Grand Company, you’ll be able to queue up with others.

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Does FC GC Affiliation qualify?

We'd really like to know, it's been asked quite a bit...

How much pvp exp will frontlines award? Will it render wolves den obsolete to level up? I can totally see SE making a joke out of getting the i100 gear now

Wouldn't surprise me on all accounts SE loves to piss off the 1% lol. SE, we warned you multiple times, I hope you listen to your consumers. Make it FC/GC affiliation or Party Lead/Host Affiliation. Your que's will be Dogsh*t; 2 weeks of active play and then it will be dead.. if you can't play with friends the purpose of a large scale PvP is void. 30 to 15 days to switch your GC doesn't fix the issue & never will; just tossing a band-aid on an open wound.

Do what you want, I've stated this numerous times; I'll just be another Game playing their PvP until I see 2.4 :)

Love ya :D

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Originally Posted by Vittorino

Wouldn't surprise me on all accounts SE loves to piss off the 1% lol. SE, we warned you multiple times, I hope you listen to your consumers. Make it FC/GC affiliation or Party Lead/Host Affiliation. Your que's will be Dogsh*t; 2 weeks of active play and then it will be dead.. if you can't play with friends the purpose of a large scale PvP is void. 30 to 15 days to switch your GC doesn't fix the issue & never will; just tossing a band-aid on an open wound.

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I think the reason why they're so reluctant to let people switch GC's so freely, is because a GC's performance in FL could lead to other game-altering features. Say, if FLAMES are stomping in FL, any flame member will have a buff or whatever (similar to FC buffs). This way, players can't just bandwagon so freely onto GC's that are performing well.

I'm not saying that THAT'S what's going to happen, but I could see FL outcomes having to do with other game mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Camate

• Queuing
  As long as you are part of the same Grand Company, you’ll be able to queue up with others.

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This is still the biggest disappointment of ANY piece of content thus far.

I am quite livid about this and I know others are as well. I do not have an issue with it being GC related, but at least allow us to queue as the GC of the leader of a party regardless of GC affiliation. We were told in the beginning that our GC choice was personal and would not limit us in playing with our friends. Now we are extremely limited. My core group of friends are spread through all 3 Grand Companies and we will not be able to play in Frontlines together because of it. This needs to be remedied. Even if it means we see the patch pushed another week. The easiest solution would be to either make it the party leader's GC or the GC your FC is affiliated with.

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Originally Posted by Vittorino

Wouldn't surprise me on all accounts SE loves to piss off the 1% lol. SE, we warned you multiple times, I hope you listen to your consumers. Make it FC/GC affiliation or Party Lead/Host Affiliation. Your que's will be Dogsh*t; 2 weeks of active play and then it will be dead.. if you can't play with friends the purpose of a large scale PvP is void. 30 to 15 days to switch your GC doesn't fix the issue & never will; just tossing a band-aid on an open wound.

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I love how people critique a system they have yet to actually use.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

I think the reason why they're so reluctant to let people switch GC's so freely, is because a GC's performance in FL could lead to other game-altering features. Say, if FLAMES are stomping in FL, any flame member will have a buff or whatever (similar to FC buffs). This way, players can't just bandwagon so freely onto GC's that are performing well.

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That is an interesting idea. It reminds me a lot of Wintergrasp in WoW.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Does FC GC Affiliation qualify?

We'd really like to know, it's been asked quite a bit...

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I'm sorry but it's really kinda obvious....it's individual player GC affiliation that determines who you can queue with. If you want to play with all your friends, switch GC's.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Does FC GC Affiliation qualify?

We'd really like to know, it's been asked quite a bit...

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Need to stop asking the already answered or obv questions....so thirsty

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Originally Posted by Camate

• Chat channels
  While participating in Frontline, certain chat channels will be restricted.
  
• Tell/LS/FC chat channels
  
  

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>no talking to your friends

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Originally Posted by Camate

• Queuing
  As long as you are part of the same Grand Company, you’ll be able to queue up with others.

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>no quing together with 2/3'ds of your friends or FC members

Frontlines srs bsns no fun aloud ; ;. (No thanks.) (I'm not up for it.)

It be better if it depends on your fc's Main grand company atleast or a free change just for this.

You are killing the pvp.

- People switch companies to play with friends.
- Players want use his pvp gear but theirs new ranks are low. Then, they have to play again and grind 20-30 ranks.
- After 2-4 months doing pvp, you are forced to do wintrade to reach your rank in another company (or farm again that rank, that it's insane). Other option is each 2 weeks, change your alliance and switch frontlines with friends(same GC) and wolves' den(different GC)
- How people is doing wintrade, wolves' den is death because again, queue takes long times.

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Originally Posted by rappa

You are killing the pvp.

- People switch companies to play with friends.

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Prior to 2.3, GC choice was mostly vanity.

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- Players want use his pvp gear but theirs new ranks are low. Then, they have to play again and grind 20-30 ranks.

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Morale will be disabled and I've heard that they will be ilevel capping Frontlines. PvP Rank is only going to influence the quality of a players PvP skills and traits.

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- After 2-4 months doing pvp, you are forced to do wintrade to reach your rank in another company (or farm again that rank, that it's insane). Other option is each 2 weeks, change your alliance and switch frontlines with friends(same GC) and wolves' den(different GC)

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The PvPXP and Wolf Mark rewards for Frontline matches are unknown and potentially greater than those given out by Wolf's Den. Gaining PvPRanks through Frontlines may be much faster than gaining said ranks through Wolf's Den.

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Originally Posted by Camate

• Say/Yell/Shout chat channels
  These chat channels will be available for use while in Frontline; however, only your group will be able to see it.

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While I understand the desire to reduce toxic interaction, would it be possible to get some kind of cross-group chatter enabled for the Battlegrounds? Even if it's a channel that by default has to be manually opted in/turned on to be used, it'd be nice to be able to have those interactions with opponents.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

While I understand the desire to reduce toxic interaction, would it be possible to get some kind of cross-group chatter enabled for the Battlegrounds? Even if it's a channel that by default has to be manually opted in/turned on to be used, it'd be nice to be able to have those interactions with opponents.

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You speak like this is a multiplayer game where play interaction is important. Silly you.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Morale will be disabled and I've heard that they will be ilevel capping Frontlines. PvP Rank is only going to influence the quality of a players PvP skills and traits.

You can play wolves' den and frontlines, but if you change your alliegance to a GC, you lose the opportunity to use your earned gear with other GC inside wolves' den. So you have to farm again ranks to earn again the chance to use your pvp gear in wolves' den

The PvPXP and Wolf Mark rewards for Frontline matches are unknown and potentially greater than those given out by Wolf's Den. Gaining PvPRanks through Frontlines may be much faster than gaining said ranks through Wolf's Den.

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wolves' den: 30 mins queue time - 20xp - 100xp : 1-5 mins played
Frontlines: 5 mins queue time - ?? xp : 30 mins played

i hope the bonus will be around 100xp(lose) - 500xp(win) or more.

Some people are in FCs that share a different affiliation than their personal GC choice. So people are going to feel inclined to leave their FC and seek one that matches their Grand Company. Do you want them to scrap the GC thing altogether and just make it 3 random teams of 24? That would screw the Lore behind Frontlines up completely. I've never played WoW's PvP but can you party up with an Alliance party leader and fight on the Alliance when you're Horde?

Please, don't compare mmo based in 2 factions like wow, rift, aion, Swotor, wh,...
Gran companies are like 3 reputations because you can join with others gc members in a dungeon.

Whichever way you look at it, it's a punishment against pvp players, more aggravated on legit pvp players. A wintrade will spend 130-200 hours again to use theirs gears and switch to another GC. A legit pvp player, look back and will say "oh no, more grindfest pug lottery, no thanks."

And then, the only choice is wintrade to avoid long queue, and random shits.

FC affiliation does not solve anything (not that there is a problem with FL to begin with)
Take a couple seconds and look at the home wards. Limsa is filled in almost every server. Immortal flames is pretty empty. The odds are stacked. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Camate

[*]Chat channels
While participating in Frontline, certain chat channels will be restricted.
[list][*]Tell/LS/FC chat channels
It will not be possible to use these chat channels as we would like to prevent players that are in different Grand Company groups from leaking information such as player position, job setup, etc.

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I find this to be a bit annoying, especially since frontlines is going to be much longer than the wolves den.
If people really want to cheat in this manner, most FC's have vent/skype/TS/etc to coordinate this info if they so choose, so it is not really going to stop anything if people are that bent on cheating.
I would prefer to talk to my friends in-game while PvPing, since PvP is one of my favourite things, and I would prefer to not be in a voice call with them to talk about other (not cheating) things while doing frontlines.

Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Camate

• Queuing
  As long as you are part of the same Grand Company, you’ll be able to queue up with others.

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This pretty much killed all the enthusiasm I had going into frontlines. Our FC is split pretty evenly between the 3 GC's and the idea that I will be unable to queue with 2/3 of my FC without grinding to max faction seems ridiculous. Also, from what I've seen, there seems to be an uneven distribution across the 3 GC's playerbase wide. This means that we will likely see certain GC's getting faster queues than others. The suggestion to use the party leaders GC seems far more reasonable to make this still lore friendly while allowing us to group as we would like.

As previously stated, we were told that GC's would never divide us and that it was purely a personal choice. This goes wholly against that statement.

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Originally Posted by Geracia2

FC affiliation does not solve anything (not that there is a problem with FL to begin with)
Take a couple seconds and look at the home wards. Limsa is filled in almost every server. Immortal flames is pretty empty. The odds are stacked. Simple as that.

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You don't have to build a house in the Wards that match your FC GC affiliation. My FC is affiliated with the Flames but our home is in Lavender Beds. The housing wards do NOT accurately represent GC affiliation for FCs. If you take a look at XIVSouls you'll see that most servers are actually fairly even in terms of player GC affiliation which is what matters for Frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Titor

If people really want to cheat in this manner, most FC's have vent/skype/TS/etc to coordinate this info if they so choose, so it is not really going to stop anything if people are that bent on cheating.

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That's the whole point. Restrict the chat and you force people to go out of their way to try and leak info. If you can't eliminate something altogether you limit it to the best of your abilities. If you have a leaky pipe are you going to do nothing and wait for the plumber because you can't fix it or are you going to go shut off the water? No water is inconvenient but at least the floor isn't getting wet.

People just need to deal with it, they ain't going to change it so stop crying. I mean if you're a "legit PVPer" you would just deal with it and you would still PVP anyway. Everyone acts like they didn't see this coming eventually, when this is how it was in ff11, and besides that GC's had no real difference between each other either. Wish people wouldn't use the wintrading or grind fest as an excuse either, since NO ONE knows how much XP you will get from Wins and Loses in Frontlines.

I'd propose pvp hard and pvp normal. The difference in the two would lie in hard mode giving a SUBSTANTIAL difference in the rewards for winning. 10-20 more marks doesn't really make anyone give a crap. You don't like to play with the possibility of getting your butt kicked? Fine. Play normal mode. You can enjoy content. We'll ease it so you play with people your level. Bullies CAN still go there but that's why you have to make the rewards so different that it'd be a waste of time. Ready to play with the big boys and girls? Play hard mode. The crap they have now trying to match people based on rank is definitely not working and frontlines will experience the same problem. The skilled want a challenge where the unskilled want what the skilled are able to possess but they don't want to put in the time to get it.

At the rate the pvp encounters take place at high ranks, from level 30 it'd take years to get to level 40. Don't fault the wintraders for that. They simply understand basic math. It doesn't make any sense to try to put out gear and expect people to not go after it until 2.3 when they decide(maybe) to adjust queues.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

So people are going to feel inclined to leave their FC and seek one that matches their Grand Company.

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I doubt it'd go this far as the rewards really are wanted mostly for cosmetic purposes. As promising as it seems, pvp has seen problem after problem and the core, matchmaking, has not been fixed. It's not going to become nearly as popular as main content and thus, when people can't play together like they wish, they'll simply lose interest and focus on what they deem more important.

You don't have to play on the same team as your friends.
You can play against them and have fun still too:
"HA, just dinged you with Fester!"

Just sayin'.

You know, Frontline information was first announced in June 2013 and subsequent info after that. They stated it was going to be GC vs GC numerous times. I know that doesn't mean much to people that recently joined and have been doing pvp, but if you were interested in frontlines you should of been following it. They gave us numerous info about since then. You can't get mad at them for making it GC vs GC vs GC only cause the information was already out there. If you were interested in frontlines like I was when I first heard about it, I made sure my friends switched to the same GC. That's like buying a ticket to a show that's a city away from you, and you getting upset as the closer it gets to the time you can't get to the city, when you knew it wasn't in your city.

What sucks is that if you are invested in a GC and your friends are not. It was too much of a grind to get higher ranks because of high pvp que times. Hopefully frontlines will make it so you get pvp much faster to rank up. Even in that instance they stated morale will have no effect in frontlines so even if you don't have pvp gear you wont be at such a huge disadvantage minus abilities. They also said that if there isn't enough people they will make it so it could be 16 vs 16 vs 16 or 8 vs 8 vs 8 so that should help the que times for GC's with low population and make it better for everyone overall to earn marks and experience quickly. Hopefully....But no reason to get all bent out of shape now. Pretty much in the final stages of it so we will just have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Marius

but if you were interested in frontlines you should of been following it. They gave us numerous info about since then. You can't get mad at them for making it GC vs GC vs GC only cause the information was already out there.

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They never said you'd be restricted to playing for your own GC team, neither that you wouldn't be able to queue for whatever GC your party leader is aligned to.
Something being predictable =/= it being a good idea. Oh and i did post it on the forums a while back, some people thought that it wouldn't happen because yeah.. bad idea.
Again, they're sacrificing simplicity and elegance in the queue system for fluff "lore" that nearly no one really cares about - because when you are fighting you are totally thinking how you are serving your imaginary allegiance which you can switch every 15 days now...

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Originally Posted by Vittorino

Wouldn't surprise me on all accounts SE loves to piss off the 1% lol. SE, we warned you multiple times, I hope you listen to your consumers.

Love ya :D

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Where are people getting this magic power to threaten a multinational media conglomerate?
From their ~10$ a month sub? That's 30 minutes of wages.
Seems futile, hostile, agitated...etc.

I get the frustration, but let's be real, here. SE has their highly trained analysts and product specialists. They've already weighed their decision to limit participation by this category, and the pros apparently outweigh the cons to doing so. I'll keep mum and enjoy it as I can with other Twin Adders, waiting for whatever they ultimately decide. But threatening just puts a easily dismissed tone to an otherwise viable opinion.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I'd rather they fix PvP progression.

Make Wolves Den less of a grind.
Lock Frontlines behind a quest that requires R25.
New players enter Wolves Den, it's less of a grind so much more tolerable.
They rank up, obtain some Morale gear, then enter Frontlines.
Frontlines matches up the same way Wolves Den does, so teams are roughly equal in rank. :(

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Those are horrible suggestion players have already soured on Wolves Den and that is why pvp is dead right now and if they lock Frontlines behind rank 25 Frontlines will be dead on arrival.

All this woe is me attitude should just stop now.
I swear the # of ppl on these forums complaining about frontlines is like twice the population of the current pvp community.
I mean where did u guys all come from? Lol
I may not pvp as much anymore but i still like to post in some pvp threads about healer stuff etc and not just QQ threads about gc restriction.
Honestly SE shouldn't cater to the % that will only do it to get their mounts and will shortly quit FL after. I mean if you couldn't even get into WD pvp and have a good time then what makes you think changes to the gc restrictions will help?
No more suggestions for allowing to change gcs plz. If SE gave a damn they would have said something about we'll keep a close eye on how well FL is doing after the launch or something.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

They never said you'd be restricted to playing for your own GC team, neither that you wouldn't be able to queue for whatever GC your party leader is aligned to.
Something being predictable =/= it being a good idea. Oh and i did post it on the forums a while back, some people thought that it wouldn't happen because yeah.. bad idea.
Again, they're sacrificing simplicity and elegance in the queue system for fluff "lore" that nearly no one really cares about - because when you are fighting you are totally thinking how you are serving your imaginary allegiance which you can switch every 15 days now...

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They didn't specifically say you will not be able to team with others in a different GC, but with them just reiterating that it would be GC vs GC vs GC since the beginning of the year, you can pretty much know that you would be limited to that. What sense would it make to pvp on the same team as someone in a different GC, when the whole point of Frontlines would be GC vs GC vs GC. The give in was when he was saying it would be similar to realm vs realm from previous pvp games. You can't join another realm to fight against your own (most pvp in mmos, not all I.E. Rift for example). I don't recall them ever mentioning about the party leader queing for frontlines. That was released fairly recently.

"Lore" is a big draw for many people, maybe not to you, but you can't speak about everyone saying no one really cares about it. I care about the lore of the game. Saying being able to change your allegiance just for the sake of being snarky doesn't doesn't impact the lore of the game. You should be happy they are at least allowing people to switch GC's. What if they made it so you couldn't? Would you be happy then for the sake of lore?

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Originally Posted by Marius

You know, Frontline information was first announced in June 2013 and subsequent info after that. They stated it was going to be GC vs GC numerous times... They gave us numerous info about since then. You can't get mad at them for making it GC vs GC vs GC only cause the information was already out there.

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Absolutely correct. This is why I personally am not maximum overrustled over the faction based PvP. It's unfair to SE to be upset, because WE KNEW! But hey, it's the forums. Gotta complain about something trivial right?

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Originally Posted by Marius

What sucks is that if you are invested in a GC and your friends are not. It was too much of a grind to get higher ranks because of high pvp que times. Hopefully frontlines will make it so you get pvp much faster to rank up.

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This is what I'm expecting. My prediction is that they're going to buff the xp/marks rate gain in some way, so it doesn't feel so bad for switching out of a GC where you have R40.

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Originally Posted by Marius

Hopefully....But no reason to get all bent out of shape now. Pretty much in the final stages of it so we will just have to wait and see.

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That's the main purpose of THESE forums: to complain about content before it comes out. I'll hold my fire until after I experience the content first hand. :)

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Originally Posted by Marius

"Lore" is a big draw for many people, maybe not to you, but you can't speak about everyone saying no one really cares about it. I care about the lore of the game. Saying being able to change your allegiance just for the sake of being snarky doesn't doesn't impact the lore of the game. You should be happy they are at least allowing people to switch GC's. What if they made it so you couldn't? Would you be happy then for the sake of lore?

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Yes i would, there would at least be some consistency to the whole "its because of lore" point.

This whole thing just seems like a failed attempt to replicate what other games have done with faction PvP, which made sense there since, you know, you are locked into your faction and everyone you will ever play with is in that faction and the factions are usually at war.
Oh and some of these games actually have systems that allow players from other factions to play for other factions on a given match(the system decides it of course) if one faction's population is too small. Not to mention the whole faction war is usually of more relevance for world PvP contested areas.

In this game, "factions" have always been pointless, there was never any sense of importance to your choice, nor was there any barrier to playing with people of other factions, they are even all friendly with each other...

Again if you think matchmaking system simplicity should be sacrificed for lore in PvP i rest my case, because this is the only argument people defending it can come up with, other than "it was predictable", and it's pretty much irrelevant.

You can also say i don't talk for everyone, but i guarantee you most people who are interested in PvPing don't care about lore while doing it. Not to mention again that there will probably be none aside from the initial quests and you fighting for your temporary allegiance.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Honestly SE shouldn't cater to the % that will only do it to get their mounts and will shortly quit FL after. I mean if you couldn't even get into WD pvp and have a good time then what makes you think changes to the gc restrictions will help?

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Actually, most of the people who played a lot in wolves den, and have actually been pvping no matter how cumbersome, are the ones asking for no restrictions because they have been waiting for some love to pvp for quite some months and now that we are finally getting some, one flaw is evident - it gets pointed out.

As a note, regardless of them ever changing this i don't think it will make or break frontlines but the idea is to have it as optimal as possible.
I'm also not just "protesting frontlines", i like the core ideas and more importantly the measures they have taken for accessibility(like ilvl sync and free abilities for example ), which is what makes the gc restriction thing so baffling to me.

anyone else not going to try this until they make it a easy way to play with your friends?

I did state that there are other games that allow for you to play with the opposing factions in pvp as Rift like I stated. That was mostly an issue of low sub numbers and pvp taking way to long to que for. I will agree with you since the game launched that there hasn't been much major differences between GC factions. I can see where you are coming from saying some people may not feel attached to their GC cause there isn't so much content besides some quests. Frontlines plans to change that. You have to start somewhere and I'm sure from now on there will be more specific GC things to do. Just hasn't been many GC only content besides leves.

There doesn't need to be other other reason for them to make frontlines GC only. It's their view and idea, so we deal with it. They wanted to make it GC specific for lore purposes and give players a sense of fighting for their own city state. I understand that and I can see how it would be sucky for friends in other GC, doesn't make their reasoning irrelevant just because you don't agree with it.

You can say most people don't care about lore while doing pvp. Wolves den, I would agree. When I'm doing that I'm not really concerned with who is in what faction. GC really doesn't have meaning there as it's arena based, but something like frontlines it does. Would you of been happy if they made Wolve's den GC only? I would assume not lol Frontine's objective based pvp with people in your own GC gives you a reason and purpose for fighting for your own GC. Lore makes sense there and fighting with your own GC. Just like in GW2 I care about my server when I do world pvp. Gives me purpose for fighting for my world, as frontlines will for my GC.