As a concession from my opinions stated earlier, I suppose an alternative to the RNG based grind would be to make the atma/alexandrite drop easily from bosses etc, but add a lengthy (high) number of requisite tasks that also need to be completed. Say, 400 fates or something like that to "charge" or activate those atma etc. This way it keeps with the developers vision for this content to inject life into the low level content for new players, but also allows players to know exactly how long they need to grind for. The way it is at the moment, some players got all their atmas in just a couple of days, yet others got nothing for the same time spent.
-
06-09-2014, 06:22 PMSparky
-
06-09-2014, 06:32 PMzulu_kuluother words, i tried the rng grind, which i said is ok before and now i dont like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
-
06-09-2014, 10:25 PMHanemakikaze
This is already an asian grinder, what are you smoking OP?
Want your myth armor pieces & accessories? Get to grinding.
Want your weathered pieces or tomestone weapon? Get to grinding.
Want your i90 coil gear for your main or alt jobs? Get to grinding(actually alright with this one).
Want to level a craft without HQ turn ins? Get to grinding.
Want to start your zodiac quest? Stop while you're ahead.
Point being, too much shit requires tomestones or fates. Something new needs to be introduced before I go insane from boredom with the same thing being thrown at me update after update. Seriously, every update it's kill this primal, grind this dungeon. I mean, would it kill them to add areas where this gear could actually drop, or specific instances that only people on the zodiac can participate...I mean anything, make the game fun when doing this kinda stuff, that's all I want ! Seriously, I wouldn't even care about a grind if it wasn't so damn boring. -
06-09-2014, 10:32 PMSparkyNo, more like:Quote:
Originally Posted by zulu_kulu
"Whilst I do not personally have a problem with the way things are, this change could have a positive impact whilst keeping things sufficient to the way I like them"
That's what the concession is in this context. It isn't saying that they were right and I was wrong, but it is saying look ok, I dont want them to remove the grind, so lets remove the RNG reliance so that people know how long they would need to grind for. It's promoting choice. It's a compromise, but it's one that should work. -
06-10-2014, 06:20 AMstupiddogI am not smoking at all. But perhaps I should try it - maybe it reduces the boredom of running Bray etc. for the 200x time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze
Other than that, I completely agree with you - the "sub one month, then skip two" strategy is looking more and more attractive to me, since I would like to actually see something for my money (and the time that I, as of now, are still putting in) -
06-10-2014, 06:27 AMstupiddogI am sorry if that term was received as racist. To my knowledge, it is simply a well-known MMORPG term for a certain style of games.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiotsukete
-
06-10-2014, 06:33 AMApolloGenXYeah, it ends up working out... not only un-subbing you get to come back to new content... but you can pick up that stuff you wanted that would have taken you those months to grind out tokens to get.... so it's kind of like you were grinding without playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by stupiddog
Truth is they gate tokens, anyway... so they force the grinding to take that long to extend content. That means the only thing you miss from skipping months... is that grind! -
06-10-2014, 06:39 AMHeroSamson
Un-sub then, cause all single player Jrpg are like that, suikoden games had to grind my levels and level up weapons grinding up money searching for 108 star's of destiny, same goes for a lot more rpg out there.
So where have you been?
Why announce you'll Un-sub? I mean do you think SE will say OMG this single person with a few people who agreed left and then they get a few people to replace you in a instant its as if nobody left the game.
This game needs grinding, to slow down content because you guys go threw it like a butter knife and butter, you want it fast and now I would be happy for them to slow your rolls. -
06-10-2014, 06:58 AMstupiddogFirst of all, I did not announce I would be unsubbing. Don't you dare put words in my mouth that I did not say. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroSamson
Second, looking at other postings, I do not seem to be the only one considering it. You do not even need to be on the forums to do the math. How long do you think it will take before it starts to be a real problem for the cashflow?
Slow-pacing content is nothing I have a problem with (think I am starting to repeat myself, but people still not seem to read it....) - I am still grinding, it is acceptable, but would it kill SE to reward me with a nice CGI sequence, some well-written dialogue, a pretty little side-story, really, anything at all besides a new weapon with some fancy numbers? If you read my posts, this is all I am asking for. -
06-10-2014, 06:59 AMApolloGenXOh, I am casual... I play MAYBE at the most 10 hours in a week, if that. I actually prefer the sub/unsub method so that I can get through content quickly without the artificial barriers and time sinks that are boring and wasted effort the next patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroSamson
-
06-10-2014, 07:01 AMKerenRhys
After reading a lot of arguments from both sides since the patch, and as someone who initially reacted pretty badly to this new grind, I came to the conclusion that the trial of the braves is acceptable as it is for the first relic (even if I would overwhelmingly prefer a full-fledged quest). However, I think it should be eased a lot for secondary relics.
It would not take anything for those who like the current grind/long-term goal, and it would encourage people to play several jobs, which would be a good thing for the game. -
06-10-2014, 09:11 AMkiotsuketeThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloGenX
I don't think anybody in this thread is saying they want all gear fast and all grinding eliminated. Just that there's not much left to this game except grindfests for 2 out of 3 months after a new patch. So when grinding comprises 2/3 of content (and grinding mostly old content to add insult to injury), something is wrong and the game stops being fun.
The white knights typically say something like, "But if SE uncaps the latest tomes, eliminates gating of the newest raids, stops designing RNG-based relic upgrade quests, etc. then people would just grind for the gear they want then unsub." That's fine, I will unsub anyway until the next patch when all these things are uncapped, nerfed, and DF restrictions lifted so that people without statics can do them.
But what if there were more to FFXIV than just grinding for gear? "Final Fantasy" used to mean cutting edge CGI sequences, innovative gameplay, immersive storytelling, world exploration, and tactical battles (vs the DDR battles we have now). Wouldn't it be awesome if these Final Fantasy hallmarks were more central to the FFXIV experience? That's the point of this thread, and why I support it.
Some of you clearly don't care if players like me, who are looking for something more than just grinding, leave to play less grindy games or only sub for 1 month out of 3. That's fine, I really don't care what you think. But I'd like to imagine that SE cares if players leave or only sub sporadically. Which is why this is being posted on the OF in case some rep reads it. So this thread. It's Not. For. You. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
-
06-10-2014, 09:13 AMGormogonYeah, not sure why Square prefers the tedious grind method. There's a lot of MMO's that make the grind fun and tolerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiotsukete
-
06-10-2014, 03:55 PMstupiddogTHANK YOU. This is exactly what I was trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiotsukete
-
06-10-2014, 04:08 PMDarki
I think a better title for this thread would be "Please don't turn FFXIV:ARR into FFXIII"
That game was more grind than anything else. -
06-10-2014, 04:57 PMKuwagamiHow could people say that any FF besides FFII was grindy ? seriously, if you ever played FFII, every other FF was just a cake walk, and optional "grind" was a nice loading screen to last enemy. Even the FFX's coliseum and the "must reach 255 everywhere" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darki
inb4 american people : the real FFII. What you may know under this name is actually FFIV. You can find a GBA remake with FFI & II : Dawn of Soul, which makes the grind even harder than in the original NES version (due to bug removal) -
06-10-2014, 05:36 PMstupiddogI played FF13.1, .2, and .3 all the way to the platinum trophy (yes, I really liked these games, only one stone for each of you...), but the only thing remotely "grindy" that I can remember was .2, where you had to complete a "scientific study" meaning you had to collect data about every single enemy in the game (i.e. fighting every enemy until all the data points were filled). Essentially, this is the beastiarum we have in FF14 with a few more data points. IIRC, none of these three games took me more than about 100 hours of playtime to get to platinum, so I dare to call these comparably trivial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darki
-
06-10-2014, 06:01 PMPr0c3ss0r
I have no problem with grinding, by time it give the player a real sense of accomplishment....
In FF11, it was taking like 3yr to finish a Mythic weapon, and like 1yr for a relic... then they came out with abyssea weapon that was taking a month and was superior to relic, mythic. This made a lots of player rage, so SE pop out a quest to upgrade our RELIC, yeah, who don't remember this upgrade quest..... 2,500 specific monster final blow for + 1DMG, then another 2,500 specific monster final blow for +1dmg again (this 3x...) It was faster to just toss your relic and do an empy..
After month and month of grinding all these quest.... SE figured out, hmm that too much grind, and reduced it to 250 final blow x 4....
The next upgrade for relic/mythic/empy for "AFTERGLOW" was even worse, i am not even sure if 1 guy in the world finish it.
Anyway, the worse was for sure, Seekers of Adoulin, bunch of new weapon that was 2 time stronger than mythic and relic and was taking 1 day to grind/get.
So the only "Accomplishment" people did in 11 series is burn they life into something that was quickly rendered into junk/useless laughable weapon of fail/shame, It had for sure a very bad taste, and it is what made me quit 11. You would think SE learn over time about they mistake, but no... Look what they did to Philo that worth absolutely nothing (they even remove it), Myth and Soldery will go there soon...
There is no point to grind future garbage of shame, SE have 2 option to make this work.
Option 1) Make relic worth the grind (FOR LIFE), never NERF the grind, always have a quest to upgrade RELIC when a new weapon come out.
Option 2) Nerf this Grind now, and never bring this back, kill it now before it kill FF14 ARR) -
06-10-2014, 06:14 PMzulu_kuluQFT or whateverQuote:
Originally Posted by Pr0c3ss0r
this guy perfectly explained why the grind for novus is insane. in perspective, the relic weapon, a weapon that will require far more effort to get than the coil 2 ilvl 115,will always be inferior or second best. SE is doing themselves a great injustice to everyone by going this route. if the relic weapon was THE BEST weapon in game (which for pvp it is...which is BS, that is a discussion for another times), then this crazy grind is justified;however, currently it isnt.
are you kidding? ff2 was no where as grindy as 10 and 12 side quests. especially 10 with its crazy ass bosses, relic /bis weapons preegs and 12 gets a special notion as to get the zoidac spear (best weapon in game) was depended on you not picking up certain chestsQuote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
-
06-10-2014, 06:33 PMlordparanoia
They already have turned this game in a grinding game. Only scob saves this game.
-
06-10-2014, 06:33 PMKuwagamiFFX was not grindy. Seriously, you had trouble for like 10 hours the time to make the sphere grid looking somehow good, then it was an exponential increase in power. And you could eventually cut out all the trouble by just theorizing yojimbo's relation and just zanmato'ing your way to Der Richter, assuming you wanted to do the complex math behind it.Quote:
Originally Posted by zulu_kulu
FFXII was a bit more grindy if you were first timer or stupid enough to take one of the 4 chests in game that are prohibited. Anyway, apart from those 2 situations, only idiots would grind the 0.1% chance to get the zodiac spear in Henne mines, because honnestly, while that weapon has the best raw damage, its combo rate makes it suck regarding masamune's awesomeness or the Tournesol's incontestable power. But if you really wanted it, you could still exploit the RNG-heavy luck manipulator method, and get 10s of it in under an hour.... Only the last hunt was hard enough to justify a grind to max level though
But if you are mistaking FFII for FFIV, that would explain it.. -
06-11-2014, 01:25 AMSparkyQuote:
Originally Posted by kiotsukete
-
06-11-2014, 01:33 AMApolloGenX
^^ to the above post that offers absolutely nothing but spams of gifs that no one cares about:
It's fine if you are happy. No one is asking you to be unhappy or to agree. Why do you insist on trying to argue with others about their experiences and opinions? Clearly, there are people that dislike this useless grind. The dev cycle shows that it is nothing but a gimmick that is destined to be removed in a near future patch.
If it is something that you like, more power to you... but please stop spamming other people's conversations with your gifs and while expressing your view is certainly valid- please remember that telling others "this game is not for you" did not work very well for FF XIV 1.0. -
06-11-2014, 01:33 AMBizniztyme
I've been playing MMORPGs for a long time and I have to say, they are all a grind, there is no such thing as a non grind MMORPG.
-
06-11-2014, 01:36 AMApolloGenXAs I have stated before... I have played MMOs for years.. and grind is a part of them... I have never played an MMO with such an obvious and boring grind system that requires max level players to grind on leveling content... nor have I played a game that rehashed content so much... and I have certainly never played a game that had such tedious grinds for gear that would be obsolete so quickly. Most of the time the grind in other games is somewhat tolerable because it requires grouping and is more of a social activity than it is an exercise in tedium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizniztyme
-
06-11-2014, 01:40 AMBizniztymeUh. To me it's all the same a grind is a grind. I don't see any difference. It's all personal taste if it's boring or tedious.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloGenX
-
06-11-2014, 01:46 AMDingle
What this game really needs right now is means for players who are neither hardcore raiders or grinders who want to play a few hours a week and still make progress, because that is not an option right now.
Why not, for example, have a weekly repeatable quest for an atma that can be done in an hour, but locks the player out from acquiring any more atma for the remainder of the week and cannot be undertaken if a player has already acquired an atma for that week? Slower than grinding FATEs, but casual players would have their Atma weapons in 12 weeks without having to sink 40 hours into the game.
And add an equivalent of rested bonus for tomestone acquisition so a player who only does say 2 dungeons a week can walk away with say 200 soldiery and 400 myth a week. Again, slower than grinding, but again, players who only have or want to sink a few hours into the game a week can actually make progress in the game. -
06-11-2014, 01:48 AMNeroMost of the Content is exactly like that, so how is that not an option?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingle
-
06-11-2014, 01:49 AMApolloGenX
At this point I would be happy with individual housing, gardening, decorating, chocobo raising, and other domestic fun games.
That at least would be funsies... different than the copy and paste grind. -
06-11-2014, 05:28 AMFelis2.3 and 2.4Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloGenX
-
06-11-2014, 05:53 AMApolloGenXOh good, maybe that will be a good time to resub!Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
-
06-11-2014, 04:59 PMYukiko
Blizzard have learned their lesson the hard way... (New Patchnotes of D3)
http://i.imgur.com/8NFodQn.jpg -
06-11-2014, 06:52 PMSarcasmMisser
Haha wow, I for one won't miss rolling bounties to make aughild set.