New MP costs seem a bit too high

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Yes, but what do you do when you play both melee and caster classes? Do I have to stop playing gladiator altogether? I guess it's a decision I'll have to make. :)

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then i propose that attribute points stick to the class so you don't have to change them back and forth. When they decided to eliminate the phy lvl they were gonna have set stats for lvl and job and everyone complained about it. Everyone wanted their attribute points. Id like to see set stats per job/lvl and maybe 20 attribute points you can assign randomly, or like i said have the attribute points stay with each class you set them to.
sorry went on a rant there.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

then i propose that attribute points stick to the class so you don't have to change them back and forth. When they decided to eliminate the phy lvl they were gonna have set stats for lvl and job and everyone complained about it. Everyone wanted their attribute points. Id like to see set stats per job/lvl and maybe 20 attribute points you can assign randomly, or like i said have the attribute points stay with each class you set them to.
sorry went on a rant there.

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No it's ok, I'm still thinking this change over. I guess choosing between the two was meant to be part of gameplay anyway. But since part of the point is being able to change classes freely, I think there is a good argument for making it so you don't have to choose.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

then i propose that attribute points stick to the class so you don't have to change them back and forth. When they decided to eliminate the phy lvl they were gonna have set stats for lvl and job and everyone complained about it. Everyone wanted their attribute points. Id like to see set stats per job/lvl and maybe 20 attribute points you can assign randomly, or like i said have the attribute points stay with each class you set them to.
sorry went on a rant there.

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This has already been announced.

I believe they went with..

Points will be auto assigned
You can manually change them
Each class will save its stats to the class

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Originally Posted by Chezen

No it's ok, I'm still thinking this change over. I guess choosing between the two was meant to be part of gameplay anyway. But since part of the point is being able to change classes freely, I think there is a good argument for making it so you don't have to choose.

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i wish people didnt have to choose, it give the illusion that there are more players in the game since you can qualify for multiple partys at the same time by switching classes. Example. oh i cant find a rank 45 dungeon party for the last hour, oh i can do rank 30 leaves with my LS. This is still possible if you stick to all dow classes.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This has already been announced.

I believe they went with..

Points will be auto assigned
You can manually change them
Each class will save its stats to the class

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I haven't seen anything confirming it, if possible can you link it.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This has already been announced.

I believe they went with..

Points will be auto assigned
You can manually change them
Each class will save its stats to the class

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Oops, I guess I missed that one. Thank you. :)

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

I haven't seen anything confirming it, if possible can you link it.

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It was confirmed but some time ago, would be hard to find try the dev tracker might take some time though, wish the dev tracker let you select a language.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

It was confirmed but some time ago, would be hard to find try the dev tracker might take some time though, wish the dev tracker let you select a language.

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It does. Go to the forum top, find the language forum you want and hit the dev tracker button next to it.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Not only that but people need to start taking a little bit of responsibility for their own HP. If you're just some melee DD and you get hit with an AoE, don't wait around for the mages to heal you. Use Second Wind or Bloodbath + your largest damage dealing skill. If you can do that then the mages may not need to waste the MP healing you and they can focus on the Tank.

As someone in another thread brought up (albeit slightly jokingly) food items have a bit more of a place and more so (if I recall correctly) in 1.19 when they rework the food effects. Every little bit of an edge you can get helps.

I think people are focusing a little too much on JUST the mages when they need to be re-examining party mechanics and re-learning certain aspects of the game. Staying alive is now the entire party's job, not just the healer's.

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While I agree with the main focus of your point, that everyone needs to look at alternative means to help keep themselves alive, I still see the increase in MP cost for heals as being way too harsh. I only see this becoming a bigger problem in the future with some of the announced changes to the Armoury system and the introduction of jobs.

Without knowing exactly what they are going to do with the Armoury system and jobs, it sounds like they will be locking more abilities/spells as class-specific and locking out Armoury flexibility completely once you switch to a Job. This may result in some of the options like Bloodbath or Second Wind becoming unavailable down the line on other classes and/or jobs.

The problem I see is that SE made too many heavy-handed changes at once without offering enough recompense. Lets take a look:

1) Massive increases in MP costs, ~3x cost of heals.
2) Elimination of AoE cures. 2 new AoE Curega for CNJ-only.
3) Introduction of Auto-Attack. Much slower DPS overall, but similar pace of combat.
4) Much harder content. Massive AoE damage in tightly-packed areas.
5) Siphon MP single-target only. Elimination of easy MP regain.

I would've lobbied for a few of these changes at a time, not all at once, as its pretty clear the combined impact of all of these changes has a lot of people concerned. My biggest concern isn't about the people who care enough about this game to adapt and overcome, its the more casual gamers who are going to see these changes as a big step in the wrong direction and ultimately quit (again).

Sure there's a lot of things people can do to potentially help alleviate some of the new issues with MP costs and healing, like popping ethers/potions (2m CD I think), or TP'ing with ranged weapons to avoid AoE, going passive or even rotating /sit to regen MP as a mage, or using alternative abilities and spells as you outlined.....but the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of players aren't going to bother with that when the easier alternative is just going to be /logout to avoid the frustration and never log back in again.

Solution: Make MP costs double instead of treble and go from there at this point. Removal of AoE as an option was a mistake to begin with imo, the more elegant solution would've been to make AoE Cure potency lower, cost more MP, and increase hate. Now we have the same problems but two more spells to bind to an already crowded action bar and 4 less AP to work with. Hopefully SE addresses this before too many people quit in frustration.

IDK curing myself a few times and all of my mp being gone doesnt sound right for non mage characters. usually id still have a good amount of mp after fighting certain mobs but now i kiss it goodbye. and i have plenty of points in MND (because i cook) for MRD... :/

they are going to need to do some major balancing after this patch, maybe some of it is tied to jobs, but as it is, pld is only a dream, you only get 3 good cures out of your mp pool.

pug using mp for basic skills is absurd, especially with the new cost of self cures, pug has no decent way to get back mp, even with stygian spikes, the point is not to be hit, and siphon on non mage sub job is long cool down and low mp return.

drk? uhhhh you might get two spells off?

if they wanted to make managing mp a big deal thats nice, but this game has no refresh, no gears that give refresh, not too many options for any non mage to even try to get mp back slowly. For mages it means going passive, i thought they wanted people to be active and moving around, with wandering parties, regen rates are reduced while moving.

It seems like they have a lot of balancing issues to address here.

you suck, should beable to manage your resources(mana). your lv50 cuz of noob mode pre-1.18 i can see. unlimited mana no more

1.18 FTW!

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they are going to need to do some major balancing after this patch, maybe some of it is tied to jobs, but as it is, pld is only a dream, you only get 3 good cures out of your mp pool.

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that about all a pld had before the super mp items and all the refresh's were added.

Well after spending a few hours on THM23/24 and doing a few behests and leves I have to say I love the changes. Scourge is easily doing double the damage it used to, maybe slightly less than double but still very noticeable. I barely notice an issue with the double MP cost on it. Scourge II however doesn't deal enough extra damage to justify the MP in my opinion.

When it comes to the heals, I am noticing I use Cure more than Sacrifice but I like that it gave me a fresh way to play. Now I use Sacrifice when the tank get's to yellow or red HP from a TP move or bad crit hit and save Cure for myself if I need it or for other players who don't have hate but got hit from AoE or something. I use Siphon MP whenever it is up and when I hit very low MP I use my 10min 1/2MP restore (name escapes me). I have yet to have an MP issue at all. HNM's would probably be a little tiresome on it but if the DD are smart to avoid AoE and you have a CON or another THM there to help when you're getting low, I foresee no issues.

Edit: Also Stygian Spikes has a great use now too.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

No more easy mode for you babies!

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We're not asking for it to be easy but at least don't raise the MP cost to 3x the original amount all in one patch. Even double the MP cost would have been fine.

Sure, you can say we're complaining or whining but just wait till we don't have enough MP to cure you in battle. Sometimes MP management just doesn't work the way you want it to. Life will have to go on (once you use the return option since I'm sure with the amount of whining you'll do at that point the mages won't want to raise you).