BLM Buffs Inc!

i'm starting to wonder if this will be an overhaul like warrior, or a straight up buff to damage like monk and dragoon

I just want to know what they plan to do. It has been close to 4 weeks now, give us something.

Here are the 2 big questions.

1. On a standstill dummy fight, will BLM be "competitive" with other dps classes?

This in itself could be (partially) solved by giving BLM its own -10% Magic Resistance Debuff, freeing us from Bards on ST fights, which seems to be most of the current endgame.
I do not expect a perfectly played BLM to beat a perfect played MNK or DRG on a dummy fight. But I would expect to do AT LEAST 85% of their dps, in a perfect situation, WITH a personal -10% Resistance debuff, aka NO BARD.

2. Will the issues of BLM mobility and proc reliance be addressed?

The current endgame theme seems to be "movement and mechanics". Well there are 3 classes that take a significant hit due to movement, MNK, DRG, and BLM. MNK and DRG dps takes a nosedive when they need to move out for a circular aoe. Most other repositioning mechanics can be performed with minimal dps loss.
For a BLM, if you are moving, you are not casting... or you are Scathing... ugh... And if you are not casting, your dps consists of your 35 potency Thunder ticks, amazing.
The solution is: Sprint (still not casting). Aetherial Manipulation (every 30s and still costs about half a gcd at least). Scathe (1/3 of your normal dps output and cuts into your normal rotation). Or sit on a proc, IF you get a proc, and it doesnt expire while you sit on it.

Regarding proc reliance, maybe its time for us to finally move away from this excessive RNG and invisible timing based gameplay.
You cast Fire 1 and hopefully get a Firestarter proc, that you cant use yet because waiting for it to happen is a dps loss.
You keep Thunder up, and once in a while you get a Thundercloud proc... Other times you magically get 3 Thundercloud procs in 20 seconds and your dps goes through the roof... Other times you wonder if the Thundercloud trait is broken cause its been 2 minutes since you got a proc.
And our beloved mana resource... Yeah, not sure exactly when we'll get that back. Could be right now, could be in 3 seconds, dunno. Every cycle comes with a built-in waiting game, unless you are a race that naturally has 251 Piety with a Scholar in the party... cause they said in the beginning that your race wouldnt matter, right? :confused:

There are a number of ways to address all of these issues.
- Lower the base mana cost of Fire by about 10, such that a Highlander, who has the lowest Piety of any race, can do any rotation.
- Make Firestarter a stack based mechanic with up to 2 effective procs. Think Warrior's Wrath stacks. Lets call them "Ignition" stacks, you use Fire 1, you get a stack, UP TO FOUR! If you have TWO or more stacks, you can cast Fire 3 instantly and for 0 mana.
- Change Scathe from being an upfront dps loss, via terribly low potency, to an upfront MANA loss, by removing the current trait, and giving Scathe the same potency as Fire 1 when under Astral Fire, and the same potency as Blizzard 1 when under Umbral Ice. Make the mana cost somewhere around 480-500, so its use is prohibitive, and make the mana cost double when you are in Astral Fire, again making it VERY prohibitive.
- Additionally change the trait for Scathe to set the duration of your current elemental stack to 10 sec, so we can refresh our stacks on the move if needed.
- Make the Thunder spells, which are exclusive to THM/BLM, apply the -10% magic damage resistance debuff for 30 seconds regardless of the rank of the spell used. OR, since this would increase SMN's dps as well, make an "elemental resistance debuff", so Foe's Req would still be the superior option for other classes.
- Lastly, DO SOMETHING to make Surecast ACTUALLY USEFUL for its BASE CLASS. The idea of making it just let us cast on the move seems to fall on deaf ears, so here is a simple workaround. Keep the current effect of Surecast so other classes can use it. But change the trait to add a new effect to Surecast: Your next 3 Scathes COST NO MANA.

There, all done. Copy and paste some warrior code, change a potency here and there, subtract 10 from one number, and add a small extra effect.
Now any race of BLM can do any rotation. Firestarters are never wasted, AND are predictable, so you can stock them for bursts, or extended movement, or use them as available. Movement incurs a mana and rotation penalty, though we can bypass it a little with skilled use of Surecast.

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tl;dr - All I want to know is if I should even bother sinking any more gear (and time) into my BLM, or will they still be inferior to SMN, and most other dps, in endgame raid content?

...wait for the live letter?

Also, BLM should always be inferior to SMN. SMN is a far more skill based class and it's justified that it should be higher DPS. Don't throw in the towel because you refuse to stick with the class you love. There are many groups, even one who posted a video in this sub-forum, using BLM from SCoB: Turns 1-4. Play what you like, not what brings the biggest numbers.

Heh. It'd be nice if they did give us some useful info during the live letter.
I dont remember how long it was between the announcement of the Warrior changes, and them actually posting the preliminary WAR changes, though I dont think there was much difference between what was originally posted and what ended up being implemented.

Either way, it has been almost 4 weeks, some dev reply, at least stating what their overall goals are, or if they at least agree with that the general playerbase believe to be the dire shortcomings of the BLM class are (mobility, proc wasting, overall dps)... would be nice.

You do realize E3 is right around the corner so-to-speak, as it's in less than a month. I doubt they're going to give away much b4 then, even with the live letter.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

...wait for the live letter?

Also, BLM should always be inferior to SMN. SMN is a far more skill based class and it's justified that it should be higher DPS. Don't throw in the towel because you refuse to stick with the class you love. There are many groups, even one who posted a video in this sub-forum, using BLM from SCoB: Turns 1-4. Play what you like, not what brings the biggest numbers.

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this is someone who played affy lock in wow and has WOL rankings, smn in this game isnt more skilled base then blm, the innate damage you do along from just dots which dont require debuffs on mobs like affy has to manage which grants dots more damage on a target, and pets just smacking away on a mob, smn just in this manner already does a lot of damage, smn in this game isnt really skilled based, just this game has a massive pool of unskilled players in general, which is what you are seeing.

Having played both, it's easier to be a good BLM than it is to be a good SMN. There's less you have to pay attention to on BLM, thus easier to perform on. I don't pull it out of nowhere >_>

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Having played both, it's easier to be a good BLM than it is to be a good SMN. There's less you have to pay attention to on BLM, thus easier to perform on. I don't pull it out of nowhere >_>

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SMN is in general a slightly harder class to play at its core than BLM, when it comes to CD usage, Aetherflow management, pet movement/management, and general rotation. BLM does have its challenges though - much like how DRG has a longer rotation and many more CDs to use than MNK but MNK's core play style is based around GL3 upkeep with its own challenges, BLM is simpler than SMN but is based entirely around mitigating movement's penalties. That being said, I don't agree a harder job should necessarily do more damage than an easier to play one, and I certainly don't agree a harder to play job should just be superior, not in a team oriented game where gearing takes months of loot lock-outs. At the end of the day all the jobs are easy enough with a little research and a couple hours of practice to play 80-100% their capacity.

The big issue right now is, a mediocre SMN who's looked up the initial 20s opener and can keep their DoTs up will out-damage an experienced and/or played perfectly BLM, especially since multi-DoT situations are about a million times more frequent than AoE situations. The gap's large enough in mobile content it's actually tougher and takes more skill, effort, knowledge of the fight to out-damage a SMN as BLM than vice versa, but the tools simply aren't there if the SMN plays competently.

Thunder 1-3 seem to be the only skills in the game that mostly just overwrite each other. Cure 1-2 would if not for freecure. I would like to see Thunder 1-2 work like Aero 1-2 - one instant cast and one longer cast and stackable. Th3 could be replaced with a debuf that could increase fire and/or thunder damage. If the thunders stacked like this, the proc rate could remain the same.

I would love to see surecast updated to include movement interruptions, but other mages don't really also need to see a buff.

And SMN doesn't take skill to play - it can just be a challenge to learn. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

snips

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You're all missing a point here: difficulty of class gameplay shouldn't affect class performance. How difficult a class is to play should be circumstantial and not telling of which does more dps. If you like playing BLM because you want to focus more on optimizing your movement as a class that dislikes moving rather than focus on the mechanics of your class that has to optimize its rotation/cd management instead you shouldn't be punished for that.

In fact if we're talking purely on what each class brings a BLM should do equal, if not more, than a SMN. Summoners are a powerful class to bring as they are currently the only DPS class that can rez, which allows healers to keep going about their business while the SMN saves the raid. BLM don't have that kind of utility, they can prevent some raid damage to themselves, and cc skills that a SMN can already do better. In this way due to the lesser utility a BLM brings to a raid you COULD argue a BLM should do more to compensate for that...

To which I would argue that utility should also not count towards which class does more dps. Imo all rdps should be about equal and all mdps should be about equal, but bring different utility to discourage class stacking.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Having played both, it's easier to be a good BLM than it is to be a good SMN. There's less you have to pay attention to on BLM, thus easier to perform on. I don't pull it out of nowhere >_>

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then you dont have a proper set up UI, and the skill is also thinking ahead and mitigating weakness and anything that comes out to you, smn in its current state doesnt get punished for anything, the pet does a large amount of damage and considering wind blade i think, is pretty much on auto attack, its controlled by AI, and does a better job then you at keeping up damage, this is true for pet specced locks also. Where affy locks differ is, their dots dont have high innate damage just smn have, smn dots hit hard as standard, and you can buff them even more, what im saying is, its easier for smn in its current state to do high damage, and takes away and punishing mechanics it has to do low damage.

To excel with BLM, takes a lot of skill, you need to read ahead, you need proper CD manage as mistiming CDs with BLMs is far more punishing then SMNs have and i play both too, SMNs i say are harder to get into, but easier to do high damage, BLMs i feel is the opposite here.

But sadly, to get a decent pool of data, will be tough, cos this game has a very large pool of unskilled players and extreme few theory crafters out there to generate their own stuff and debate more.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

then you dont have a proper set up UI, and the skill is also thinking ahead and mitigating weakness and anything that comes out to you, smn in its current state doesnt get punished for anything, the pet does a large amount of damage and considering wind blade i think, is pretty much on auto attack, its controlled by AI, and does a better job then you at keeping up damage, this is true for pet specced locks also. Where affy locks differ is, their dots dont have high innate damage just smn have, smn dots hit hard as standard, and you can buff them even more, what im saying is, its easier for smn in its current state to do high damage, and takes away and punishing mechanics it has to do low damage.To excel with BLM, takes a lot of skill, you need to read ahead, you need proper CD manage as mistiming CDs with BLMs is far more punishing then SMNs have and i play both too, SMNs i say are harder to get into, but easier to do high damage, BLMs i feel is the opposite here.

But sadly, to get a decent pool of data, will be tough, cos this game has a very large pool of unskilled players and extreme few theory crafters out there to generate their own stuff and debate more.

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I find it very weird people say Summoner is hard to get into. After reading this thread this morning I decided to jump into Summoner, I haven't played the class since... October? November? Whenever I was levelling Arcanist for Scholar. I did a quick Google to find an opening rotation (not even sure how good it is, Raging->Dots->Fester/Contagion), jumped into a primal, I was doing 300dps~ with no echo and -30 INT as I'm specced into SCH, I'm sure it's not the best ever considering my caster item level (102) but it literally took me a few mins on Google to get to. I'm very tempted to take it to second coil at the next reset and see if it beats what I can do on BLM there. I think I miss a bit of accuracy, but I can easily just swap the Allagan book for the Levi one.

its not hard as in actually hard, i find it easy, but thats my background with end game progression with a warlock as my main, however, in terms of amount of spells, it takes more reading you could say compared to BLM, im just saying, its easier as smn to do higher damage, just popping cds and putting up and maintaining dots and leaving the pet on its own will do high damage from the get go, you cant do much wrong with it, you literally have to stop dealing damage to do low damage as a smn, BLM need more forward thinking to do high damage and sustain it, its far more punishing and the dps drops are significant, you can see good examples of this on titan ex.
An average smn will do high damage on this fight, a evenly skilled BLM will do much lower damage, a great BLM will do the same amount of damage or more, and sadly, a great SMN wont do that much more then a average SMN under those conditions

That's pretty much what it comes down to.
BLM has an easier learning curve, but a higher skill cap, partly due to the somewhat excessive movement penalties, and partly due to the RNG nature of the class at 50. It's just very encounter specific.
SMN has a steeper learning curve, namely keeping track of your dots, which can be made easier by adjusting your UI settings, and remembering to use your 1 and 2 minute CD's.

That said, neither basic class's rotation or methodology is particularly difficult.

For example, as SMN, you could literally do a rotation of: [ Bio 2 - Miasma - Bio - 7 Ruins - Bio - Miasma - Bio 2 - 7 Ruins ] and repeat.
Is it absolutely perfect? No, you lose maybe 3-4 ticks worth via clipping or the dots falling off, but that is still about 90% of your max dot dps. Throw in the X minute CD's, intelligent use of Contagion, Ruin 2 for movement, and you are pretty much set on SMN dps.

As a BLM, you pretty much do one of several versions of the short opening rotation, just to get yourself into AF3... could be as simple as "cast F3". Then you do 4-5 F1's, depending on how you started, B3, T1/T2 depending on your Piety, maybe B1 depending on the timing of the mana tick, then F3 and repeat.
Notice how there's already some uncertainty in the simple BLM rotation? Now throw in Firestarter and Thundercloud procs. Now you may need to sit on those procs for a movement phase... But if you dont get a proc, that 40% can be very elusive, you take a large dps hit when moving. If you do get a proc, but its too early, you could end up sitting on that proc for too long, and it will time out, I've seen it happen...

So to recap.

SMN: More CD's, watch dots, though all it takes is a quick glance and some preemptive Thinking and a little Practice to do near top dps, regardless of the situation.

BLM: Less CD's, simpler baseline rotation, maintaining optimal dps requires: Experience with the fight (knowing movement phases, transitions), Luck with procs, and more Luck to make sure you don't get targeted for mechanics that require continued movement, breaking los, or just not using any actions.

That is the issue RIGHT THERE!

Once you learn SMN, its the same thing, every time, every rotation, every fight. If you have to move, no problem, Ruin 2. Figure out where to put Garuda on each fight, once, and you are set.

BLM on the other hand, while easier rotation wise, frankly the only classes with easier rotations are Bard and Paladin, is susceptible to a massive amount of RNG, and literally NEEDS TO KNOW the fight in advance in order to avoid massive dps losses. And lets not forget that a SMN does fairly consistent, reliable damage, while a BLM needs their 40% and 5% procs to do their maximum damage, but ALSO needs to sit on those procs to avoid their dps dropping to ~0 during a movement phase.

For anyone who's really played both BLM and SMN in Coil, especially T6, I am sure you would agree with this evaluation of BLM's weaknesses. So what is the solution?
Simply put, BLM needs less RNG, and a way to do more dps while moving, cause frankly the nerfed Scathe isn't worth jack.

Fix those 2 glaring issues, and THEN we can evaluate how much of a raw dps increase BLM will need to be competitive with other classes. Right now, BLM is pretty much bottom of the barrel on ST fights, and sadly, there are practically no AoE fights where mobs are within 5y of eachother... though there ARE multi-target phases where 2+ mobs are up, and being tanked in different locations.

I am in no way saying this makes up for a large portion of lost dps while moving but.....have most blm forgot about scathe? I know some of you here have mentioned it but I am talking about BLMs you meet everyday. It's not ideal if you're in Astral but if in Umbral you will just regen the MP spent back.Again, it is not the greatest option, but it is there. From parses I've ran most DF and PF BLMs, even some people in my own FC and LSs don't even use it in heavy movement fights.

Maybe I use it more liberally because I used it alot when I had bad lag for a few weeks and overcompensated my movement lol

Forgive some of my bad engrish grammatical errors.....apparently I have had better luck in 3 other languages but still fail at my home language grammar...oh the irony... :p

@Kenji1134

Couldn't agree more!

BLM does not need a major buff. Firestarter stacking is most likely more than enough, anymore and you will risk overbuffing them, especially since they already do so much more AoE damage. Since SE knows what they're doing more than 99% of the players, I guess I'll just have to trust them.

Also, with the buff to some of the SMN pets, SMN will probably be getting a buff too. Even though I didn't have THAT much complaint about the melee situation pre-buff, I just hope these buffs to SMN and BLM don't revert melees to the situation they were in before.

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Originally Posted by ZeratoTyrael

I am in no way saying this makes up for a large portion of lost dps while moving but.....have most blm forgot about scathe? I know some of you here have mentioned it but I am talking about BLMs you meet everyday. It's not ideal if you're in Astral but if in Umbral you will just regen the MP spent back.Again, it is not the greatest option, but it is there. From parses I've ran most DF and PF BLMs, even some people in my own FC and LSs don't even use it in heavy movement fights.

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the problem for min-maxers being that scathe is on gcd and a movement to avoid something often takes a second or less, leaving you standing around like a prat waiting to cast something else for what can seem like an eternity

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

BLM does not need a major buff. Firestarter stacking is most likely more than enough, anymore and you will risk overbuffing them, especially since they already do so much more AoE damage. Since SE knows what they're doing more than 99% of the players, I guess I'll just have to trust them.

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False. It's likely 10% of the players know more than all SE.

Black Mage AoE ability means jack squad in content that is cutting edge. Why? There isn't anything that needs their services.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

Since SE knows what they're doing more than 99% of the players, I guess I'll just have to trust them.

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I'd just like to point out this ignorance. Why do a small group of people that happen to work for some company know better than thousands of others that happen to be using the services of that company?
In a better world, I'd think with the collective knowledge & experience of all the players (who play the game on a daily basis and probably have figured out its weak points, and who many of which have gone to higher learning, some within the same field in question, and hold respectable jobs), their input should be valued more than the few people who actually decide what to do.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

BLM does not need a major buff. Firestarter stacking is most likely more than enough, anymore and you will risk overbuffing them

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Black mages are the least favored class to bring for Turn 8 and 9. Why? Because our DPS is far too RNG based and sustainable DPS > RNG Spike Damage in >5 min encounters

RNG Factors in BLM:
- Scathe deals ~200 dmg to ~900 dmg
- # Firestarter proc is totally RNG
- # Thundercloud proc is totally RNG
- # "big number crits" are all RNG
- Moving from red circles is RNG

Stacking Firestarter to 3: any black mage that misses 2 Firestarter Proc should just reroll. Stacking to 2 is more than enough to make up for the fact no (competent) black mage stops after every Fire I to see if Firestarter procs. But still, double Firestarter back to back is a small use case. In the 11 minutes I do Turn 8, I can count maybe 10 times?

At least bards can play songs. Summoners can resurrect on top of their already high DPS output.

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Originally Posted by Yukio

Badly Played Black mages are the least favored class to bring for Turn 8 and 9.

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Fixed.

Good BLMs pull 370+ on T8, which isn't far behind most well played MNKs/DRGs/SMNs, and more than average/badly played ones, and nearly all t9 clear groups have had 1 or 2 BLMs.

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Originally Posted by xEscaflownex

Fixed.

Good BLMs pull 370+ on T8, which isn't far behind most well played MNKs/DRGs/SMNs, and more than average/badly played ones, and nearly all t9 clear groups have had 1 or 2 BLMs.

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bad blm here. This may not be the topic for it, but how do you dps that high? I'd be happy with even ~300dps @i96

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Originally Posted by Halloween

bad blm here. This may not be the topic for it, but how do you dps that high? I'd be happy with even ~300dps @i96

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Really? You should be able to do 330+ if your party has you running around to soak 2 mines in a 1 Tank setup, or 370+ if you just get to dps aside from tower activations (use Aetherial Manipulation to get back into stack instantly after obviously, same after mines if you are doing those). I'm only i100.

I Thunder III, Swiftcast Fire III, Raging Strikes, Fire spam (pop convert after first Firestarter or Thundercloud proc to get an additional 2 fires in before switching to UI) for opener, then just normal rotation. You can get two flares in on each dreadknight (one HC at the end of your AF phase and then another converted or potted + swiftcast), BRD Foes at pull and then for each dreadknight. Save a Firestarter or Thundercloud proc when your tower activation is about to come up if possible, use it during the travel there, then AM back to stack = nearly no downtime. This keeps me at 370+ if I'm not on double mine duty, and 20-30 DPS less if I am.

There's also the gear question, that everyone seems to be ignoring.

With group buffs, pots, food, and cooperative bards, the difference between the atma's 69 damage, coil/levi 71 damage, animus 72 damage, and Laevateinn's 75 damage does end up making a noticeable difference.
Its not like T1-5 where you just assumed that everyone had their zenith and weapon damage was normalized across all players.
Now weapon damage is a big factor, since some people dont have the luck or time to have their animus finished, or didnt win the rolls to get their i110 weapon.

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Originally Posted by xEscaflownex

Really? You should be able to do 330+ if your party has you running around to soak 2 mines in a 1 Tank setup, or 370+ if you just get to dps aside from tower activations (use Aetherial Manipulation to get back into stack instantly after obviously, same after mines if you are doing those). I'm only i100.

I Thunder III, Swiftcast Fire III, Raging Strikes, Fire spam (pop convert after first Firestarter or Thundercould proc to get an additional 2 fires in before switching to UI) for opener, then just normal rotation. You can get two flares in on each dreadknight (one HC at the end of your AF phase and then another converterted or potted + swiftcast),

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How do you have convert back for dreadknights? Or does your group do mine towers first?

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

How do you have convert back for dreadknights? Or does your group do mine towers first?

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hence the "converted OR potted"

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Originally Posted by xEscaflownex

... and nearly all t9 clear groups have had 1 or 2 BLMs.

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Not really. I haven't kept up with current kill videos but most of the original T9 kill videos in the weeks that followed BG's kill didn't use BLM, and the ones that did had BLM very low on aggro, even below SMN aggro by the end. The only thing BLM brings to the table in T9 is shielding abilities + AM to make arguably the least consistent part of the fight, Dive Bombs + Meteor Smashes, less risky.

Our group uses SMN SMN as our casters because SMN has a ridiculous amount of advantages (more DPS, destroys golems without the need for any CDs whatsoever, battle rez, more pets for stacking for Thermal, gets 80% of DPS in element phase while dodging) over BLM and no penalty for stacking them.

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Originally Posted by xEscaflownex

hence the "converted OR potted"

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Ah whoops. Didn't see that at first. So do you not use INT pots at all? Is it better to just use manapots for flares? (specifically for T8)

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Ah whoops. Didn't see that at first. So do you not use INT pots at all? Is it better to just use manapots for flares? (specifically for T8)

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On T8 I usually don't unless it's off CD at the end to finish it up, I haven't calculated it or anything, but I'm pretty sure the 4k+ dmg you get from second flare on dread+avatar is at least equal to, and probably far outweighs, the dmg you get from 15 seconds/6 or so buffed casts of INT pot.

Looks like hq x int pot increases Fire I dmg by about 100~, Fire III by 150~, so in the 15 seconds, say 6 Fires and a Firestarter, around 750 dmg (more if any of the casts crit obviously), but still not close to non crit Flare on 2 targets, let alone a crit on one or both, so IMO, manapots better in this case.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Another option could be to change the Firestarter proc entirely. Instead of making it an instant cast DD, change it to a dot that gets applied when you crit. Dot ticks for 8secs for x, where x is the amount you crit for.

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I'd love to see some on-Crit effects. There's no reason to worry about any secondary stats as BLM, it's very boring. The ONLY job in the game that benefits from a secondary stat is a SCH.

How about just decreasing the cast time of fire 1.

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Originally Posted by Darxer

I'd love to see some on-Crit effects. There's no reason to worry about any secondary stats as BLM, it's very boring. The ONLY job in the game that benefits from a secondary stat is a SCH.

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And a Bard crit hits on their dots reset blood arrow. I've literally fired 7 blood arrows in a row because of this

Black Mages can do 370 DPS when standing still? I do 340 on a striking dummy with iLVL 99 gear. I know my class well. I use aetherial manipultion, I move as little as possible, I manage my procs well, use the few cooldowns we have effectively and such ...
370DPS is what Monks do, so don't even start on it. If you get 370 DPS, either your bard is playing Requiem all of the time or you are using potions like it's mad (poison and intelligence).
I by the way play both Summoner and Black Mage. On average, I get 30-40 more DPS out of my summoner. Especially on turn 6-7. It's actually even funny how on T8, where I would stand still most of the time with my BLM, I'd still get more DPS on my Summoner.
People who claim that the BLM doesn't need a buff don't have any idea what they are talking about.

Im sure a good chunk of the people claiming to do such high dps are either very VERY geared, while using every kind of pot and food available, with very mana efficient healers, and the bard is their best friend playing Foe's as much as possible.

Or... people are just noting their burst numbers... Which has happened quite a lot with BLM players.

I for one, would like to see, on Reddit, a simple screenshot of a person's gear/stats (to confirm Ilvl and Weapon), as well as a FULL parse, not some small segment, merge all relevant segments together and show me a screenshot for the whole fight.

^^ agreed with above posts
And yes i also think decreasing cast time at least for me would be a good start

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

Black Mages can do 370 DPS when standing still? I do 340 on a striking dummy with iLVL 99 gear. I know my class well. I use aetherial manipultion, I move as little as possible, I manage my procs well, use the few cooldowns we have effectively and such ...
370DPS is what Monks do, so don't even start on it. If you get 370 DPS, either your bard is playing Requiem all of the time or you are using potions like it's mad (poison and intelligence).
I by the way play both Summoner and Black Mage. On average, I get 30-40 more DPS out of my summoner. Especially on turn 6-7. It's actually even funny how on T8, where I would stand still most of the time with my BLM, I'd still get more DPS on my Summoner.
People who claim that the BLM doesn't need a buff don't have any idea what they are talking about.

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I am i100 (1 ilvl higher than you), 340-350 on a dummy, for 11 minutes, without using potions, seems fine to me (it's what I do). But then of course factor in Party boost to INT, Foe Requiem, AND INT pots should you choose to use them, and it is no great feet to push another 30+ DPS, not sure why you seem to think its so impossible

T6 - 330+ (I usually run around 340)

T7 - 300 +/- 20 or so DPS This is certainly my least favorite turn for BLM depending on RNG, I tend to get a seemingly unfair amount of cursed gazes and shrieks lol,

T8 - 370+ (I usually run around 385) Subtract 30ish DPS if you are on double mine duty, add if your party gives you no responsibility (I currently Do 4 tower activations and ballistic missile - downtime is largely reduced to none with use of sprint, procs, and Aetherial manipulation)

My party's bard does not *love* me lol, he does what most bards do, foes for pull, foes for each dreadnaught. I use Ether pots, not INT on 8.

Your "OMG 370 is only possible by MNK, BLM can never do this" is pretty absurd, it's quite easy to accomplish this on T8, if you are doing 390+ on your SMN at same ilvl, that's awesome, and I certainly agree that they are capable and largely should be doing more than BLM on every fight, but when you are comfortable with each fight BLM can put out pretty respectable numbers.

370 was OLD Mnk dummy 5min+ parsin, they are well above 400 now, all classes dmg has increased with gear, not sure why you are still stuck on old numbers as current maximums

I'm all for a change or buff or whatever they plan to do, it will just make it even better, but it's far from being broken, or massively underpowered as it is now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Im sure a good chunk of the people claiming to do such high dps are either very VERY geared, while using every kind of pot and food available, with very mana efficient healers, and the bard is their best friend playing Foe's as much as possible.

Or... people are just noting their burst numbers... Which has happened quite a lot with BLM players.

I for one, would like to see, on Reddit, a simple screenshot of a person's gear/stats (to confirm Ilvl and Weapon), as well as a FULL parse, not some small segment, merge all relevant segments together and show me a screenshot for the whole fight.

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I will do this for you tonight after raid.

I could live with Fire I being insta-cast. Nice DPS increase with Firestarter checks, and heavy movement would go from a ridiculous loss of DPS to acceptable levels. If we got say a 10% DPS increase from buffs that'd be fine, we'd be in line with SMN sustained DPS. SMN would have the multi-DoT advantage, battle resurrection, and superior utility, BLM would have on-demand burst, AoE, and shielding skills; that's balanced enough for me. There's absolutely no reason SMN should do more sustained than BLM with all their advantages, and then when translated to a real fight either stay the same or make that gap even further.

Here's how T9 plays out (slightly over dramatized!) in the later phases:

Sleigh Presty gets targeted by Fireball, move out!
Sleigh Presty gets targeted by Thunderstruck, move to the rear!
The group gets targeted by Fireball, move out!
Sleigh Presty gets targeted by Thunderstruck, move out!
Iron Chariot goes out, move out!
Sleigh Presty gets targeted by Fireball, move out! Sleigh Presty uses Aetherial Manipulation; his target had Thunderstruck! Move out!
Stack with the group for Thermal!
The group gets targeted by Fireball, move out!
Sleigh Presty gets 10 seconds to attack boss!

Instant Fire would be nice, even better if Firestarter procs could be calculated at spell completion, not spell landing.
We would need to find something to do with Scathe though, as it'd become completely useless when you're in AF, and barely useful in UI.

Still, Instant Fire 1, maybe even Instant Blizzard 1, and we can drop Scathe for a short cooldown DPS buff, and use the Scathe trait increase its effect, like DRG..
Then raise the bonus from AF3 to 2.0x and we are set.

Personally, I don't believe anything you say, Esca. I know for a fact that Monks get 350-380 DPS. How do I know this? Because I am in an Extreme selling group and I often play with the best players on my server. EoS, Eve, FURY, ExG ... and what you say is absolute nonsense. I'm sorry, but I can't believe it. I have done every single thing and thought about every single thing to maximize my dps. You're telling me that you get 330 DPS+ on T6? That I find hard to believe seeing as in that fight is highly mobile. So you will tell me that you do 340 DPS stationary? And on a highly mobile fight you do 330+ or usually 340 on T6? That alone makes me think that you lying. Sure, you get the party buff and there is perhaps some requiem, but it's still very very unlikely. BLM gets punished the most for moving around and the DPS drop is insane! I say, you send me a video or picture where it is parsed. Haha, maybe your parser is broken. But I would want a video of you pulling 340 DPS on T6. I can not believe that there is such a gap between you and me when I know of myself that I am a very good Black Mage. I'd like to see you play once in a while. Forgive me for being sceptical about your claims. I demand a video.
Well, the T6 is maybe more legit if you don't run to thorns and do that cheap tactic. But I mean, your claim on T7 as well. The best summoners I've played with almost don't even pull that off.
Well, Yes, another factor might be if you have the level 110 weapon. Do you?