No changes to ATMA?

What I've gathered from all these Atma topics so far:

1.) Because XI's system was worse, that makes this system okay.
2.) Because XI had something similar, that makes it good.
3.) Massive time sink = challenge. The Atma quest is "better" and "more difficult" because it requires more time.
4.) Atmas/Animus are worthy of being called "legendary" despite so many people having them and most of them just no-life FATE grinded for days to get there.

I really wish more people would make the argument that Atma weapons are for casual players who don't want to actually beat a challenge, but rather want to spend a little time every day doing something easy and work toward a cool weapon. Because that's what it's there for. That's why they think it will take most players a long time to do it, on top of the Animus portion intentionally being a massive time sink (still better than the Atma portion, though).

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

I like how people always use the same argument: "it shouldn't be easy, it's supposed to take time", while RNG is involved.

One person gets all 12 within 12 FATEs.
One person never sees a single one of them.

All within the possibilities of RNG.

P.S. I haven't started with it yet and have no plans for the near future. :P

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Again, why are you caring about what another player got? It means nothing to you. Also, I really dislike how people use RNG like there is no statistical backing behind it. There is a set drop rate and in a big enough sample size, everyone has the same drop rate). Yes, someone may have got luckily than you and got 12 within 12 fates in a small sample size which is an EXTREMELY RARE situation. If this person went on to farm his next atma he probably wouldn't be this lucky unless he has goddess of luck behind him. Also we're talking about maybe 1 in a 100000 players who get all 12 atmas in 12 fates (real % is probably lower). Most people are farming just as hard as you are. So stop crying about a super rare lucky player and how you weren't that super rare lucky player. We all curse ourselves for not winning the lotto right?

So don't HATE on RNG but instead ask for a higher % drop rate.

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Originally Posted by Ddmk

I've spent over 100 hours and still only have 4 atmas they need a slight boost to drop rate or a alternative method to obtain them...
Don't get me wrong I like to grind,but repeating low level content on a rng drop sucks

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I refuse to believe you spent 100 hours and only got 4 atma's... Maybe 100 hours have gone by since you been trying, but 100 hours of straight fates? Come on bro...

Just because you play for 1 hour, stop and eat for an hour, play 1 hour, then go outside, for an hour. Doesn't mean you've spent 4 hours on one Atma. LOL

Haha. I'm at 30 hours and still 0 atmas. At this point I'm going to be disappointed when my first one drops and breaks the streak.

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

I refuse to believe you spent 100 hours and only got 4 atma's... Maybe 100 hours have gone by since you been trying, but 100 hours of straight fates? Come on bro...

Just because you play for 1 hour, stop and eat for an hour, play 1 hour, then go outside, for an hour. Doesn't mean you've spent 4 hours on one Atma. LOL

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I had two weeks off work farming for 8 hours everyday just on atmas so in actual fact I've spent over 100 hours

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

I refuse to believe you spent 100 hours and only got 4 atma's... Maybe 100 hours have gone by since you been trying, but 100 hours of straight fates? Come on bro...

Just because you play for 1 hour, stop and eat for an hour, play 1 hour, then go outside, for an hour. Doesn't mean you've spent 4 hours on one Atma. LOL

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I can't begin to estimate the actual time I've spent, but using the achievement that counts fates I have done over 1000 for this quest line.
Not sure what that is in hours of gameplay though.

I'm 10/12 on them.

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I refuse to believe you spent 100 hours and only got 4 atma's... Maybe 100 hours have gone by since you been trying, but 100 hours of straight fates? Come on bro...

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It's easy to think that something is simple when you're one of the people the RNG favors

This makes me wonder how many people complain to casinos when they see someone next to them win a jackpot. Like "Hey! That guy next to me got really really lucky! I deserve just as much rewards as him or it isn't fair!"

The thing is, it's a game, and it's a gamble.

I won't deny that I'm jealous of those who win, but I am also happy for them and continue to play myself.

P.S. I'm not trying to justify RNG by using a comparison to casinos. But maybe we should compare the customers?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

It's easy to think that something is simple when you're one of the people the RNG favors

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Assuming from my OWN personal experience:

I can generally do 15-20 FATEs per hour without huge problems (porting whenever there's no fate around in this zone, not doing fates that take 12+ minutes which of course you can only do until you hit 10 or 11/12).
So in 100 hours of farming that would be around 1.5k-2.5k Fates depending on speed/luck. Most people assume theres a 2% chance to drop an atma in any given Fate, while your droprate would be something between 0.07% and 0.04% assuming above numbers and assuming you'd drop your first ATMA within the next few fates.

I'm not saying you're lying, but if that is indeed correct then you're probably the unluckiest person in the world :P

I'm at 7/12 now after roughly 400 Fates which is pretty close to the presumed 2%, however, my first ATMA took around 200 FATEs while the last 6 took also around 200 Fates. Most people I've talked to had a streak of unluck at some point and hit 100-300 Fates without a drop, but 2k seems ridiculous even at 1%. So you either have my condolescences for having such incredibly bad luck, or you're just telling a lie here and actually haven't farmed 100 hours but played 100 hours doing a few hundred fates or so :P

So it pains me to say this, but I can see where this game is going.

XI

I played it from launch and eventually stopped, just got too old in 2013. But I can tell you with having watched hundreds if not thousands of people that I played with come, try the game until like level 30 and just leave with this face o_____________o SE failed that game.

Mindless Grinding
RNG

These things are draconian, I see people defending them as classic MMO things. But sorry, the majority of the gaming community doesn't want that. We now live in hard times, no matter where you live. I am a developer who works very hard, this leaves me with a grand total of 20 Hours max gaming time.

Spending those 20 hours on total RNG in a mindless grind does not make me happy, as I just did that same very thing writing new scripts for software.

My point is: We don't want to work we want to play and while I am a die hard FF fan, I promise you, XIV in this current frame of mind is absolutely doomed.

You have a small amount of the gaming community trolling the larger amount, this small amount has something akin to 40 - 60 hrs to spend on gaming time so they make silly comments and snide remarks talking about how good people are etc. This is what was left in XI and actually made playing XI that much more painful.

Ask SE's financial department, they cannot afford another XI, especially when everyone's eyes are on SE right now in the wake of some of their promises to return to Japanese RPG content. Yoshi would do well to remember who his majority subscribers are, just like any developer knows to cater to the masses and include quality of life.

PS.

I don't want a Leviathan Weapon. I want to be an FF hero and have my Job Class' weapon. I have said and will maintain the EX and Coil weapons should be SE's concession to the Hard Core people who want RNG/Grinds, and should be considerably more powerful than any incarnation of a Relic that does not evolve off the aforementioned content.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

I've been patient enough, thanks. I've spent 20 hours in hell known as "Southern Thanalan" with no Atma to show for it. Yet I have friends who have gotten all 12 Atmas in that same amount of time. This system is an absolute joke.

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This^^

I really don't have anything against spending 20 or even 40 hours on a grind like this but the randomness makes it seem like a cruel punishment instead of worthy progression that gets you more results the more you put time into it. Basically dedication gets zero credit with this system and it just feels wrong.

You know one side has lost the argument when they start making baseless generalisations, incessant name calling, foretelling doomsday prophecies and making ultimatums and threats to a company they voluntarily paid a game for. I won't even bother refuting your points as it's akin to attacking an unarmed opponent with no proverbial leg to stand on.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

You know one side has lost the argument when they start making baseless generalisations, incessant name calling, foretelling doomsday prophecies and making ultimatums and threats to a company they voluntarily paid a game for. I won't even bother refuting your points as it's akin to attacking an unarmed opponent with no proverbial leg to stand on.

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Literally none of those things were done, and if you haven't been reading the discussion, you'd know the generalizations were not baseless.

Also if you played XI you'd know my statements about it were entirely true. I don't have an ounce of ill will towards anyone with any other opinion, but I do see a lot of ill will towards people who came to just have fun and relax versus the people who clearly want to lord over them and keep them beneath them as their sole sense of achievement.

I also denote that from you passive aggressive tone. In addition to that, I can tell you truly don't want to argue my point because you know it's true. If SE maintains this kind of content, people will get irritated with it and go away. People like me will stay because we love FF, but telling all truth all of my friends (an entire LS of 50 people) have quit this game as of 2.2 and play other things right now.

Also, pay attention to SE's stock for that "doomsday prophecy" as you called it. People are selling it to get out of it, which isn't a direct reflection of XIV, but XIV was looked to to be a financial champion for SE.

No money=No more meaningful content=Dwindling population.

If you don't even have the decency to acknowledge what you said then I'm afraid I can't help you. Have a good day.

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Originally Posted by Awrini

Haha. I'm at 30 hours and still 0 atmas. At this point I'm going to be disappointed when my first one drops and breaks the streak.

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Stop grinding just one area! Every area seems to have different drop rates, so if you haven't gotten a drop within 10 fates, go to the next area. Keep a list of all areas, so you don't miss any.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

If you don't even have the decency to acknowledge what you said then I'm afraid I can't help you. Have a good day.

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My grandmother always used to repeat herself to no end and I never got it until adulthood. "A hit dog will hollar"

"You have a small amount of the gaming community trolling the larger amount"

Oh I'm standing by it, are you admitting you're a Troll? Because what I see you doing is the exact definition thereof, you're trying to put a man's opinion down. So in turn I say to you my friend.

Stand by your comments, come out and admit your hatred for me as well as the rest of people who don't feel the need to sit behind RNG as a gaming mechanic. RNG is a game killer, ask Blizzard, they had to rebuild the basic mechanics of an entire game over it just to get people back on a free to play game.

Yeah you run away.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

snip.

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Oh no worries about walls of text haha :)

I have to fully agree with you on the fact that things get stale and boring when you know exactly what to expect, but my problem is not with the RNG system in its own, it's with the way it is incorporated into Atma's. See, I am an old school RPGér, I grew up with playing Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons and yes the game had RNG, however it was mostly limited to a D20 with a D6 or so attached to it. a D100 was hardly never used, let alone stand percentage base and each roll had pretty much an outcome whether they be bad or good.

With Atma's that system is Percentage based and has 2 outcomes. All or nothing. and honestly, to me that isn't fun. The RNG in Dungeons is not bad for me because in there even if it is the same as the fates, you get the fun of doing the dungeons, talking to other players etc. In fates, I feel as if I am staring at a constant blue circle spamming a single attack since most are in low level zones and repeat that till something drops.

Though regardless, I am not really bitching about it for myself. I am at 6/12 and I will continue till I get them, since I like loot ;) but I can relate to the frustrations others might have with the system. Specially those constantly pulling at the short end of it.

Also, very nice written post and for the most part, I agree with it. Thank you :)

I think any person with common sense can see who's the wounded dog hollering here lol.

And I find it ironic you are calling me a troll when you can't even see that claiming a majority of the player population shares your opinion is such an explicit example of baseless generalisation. And btw, did you say opinion, not fact? You just shot yourself in the foot without realising it my friend.

And don't you dare talk to me about wow. I played that game from vanilla to cata. Most people agree that the end of bc/start of wotlk was the high point of the game as there was considerable rng involved. The subscription numbers proved that after they homogenised the game in cata subscription numbers dropped and never recovered since.

Hatred? Wow such a strong word. Please go back and read your own posts then mine then say again who has more hatred.

You know what the worst part about all these people championing the RNG for Atmas when it doesn't even give a boost of stats? These same people probably don't have a problem with the complaints concerning mirrors off leviathan EX even though it comes with an upgrade. Complaints can't come from "filthy casual" content concerns. This is the same attitude and feedback that kept 1.0 unchanged out of beta. We all know how well that went considering we are all still playing 1.0. There is a reason those mechanics and systems went away with 1.0. I for one hope to never see systems off RNG hell like the primals from 1.0. Yet here we are with something half as bad.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

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As a developer you should know better than to:
- continually send repetitive feedback (spam) and break forum etiquette and rules.
- label other paying subscribers as a talking point in your opinion.
- Give false and misleading information regarding a majority of the player base opinion when you have no backing to this claim. The forums are a fraction and multi-language.
- False claim on the Financial situation at SE.
- Bad mouth another colleague and his team who are actively engaged with it's players with a past practice of implementing changes based on it.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

if you played XI you'd know my statements about it were entirely true.

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All I read was your opinion based on your experience with XI.

I'm not even a player supporting RNG or defending SE and this is what I see from you.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

I think any person with common sense can see who's the wounded dog hollering here lol.

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I have common sense. I can see who the "wounded dog hollering" is. It's you.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

And I find it ironic you are calling me a troll when you can't even see that claiming a majority of the player population shares your opinion is such an explicit example of baseless generalisation. And btw, did you say opinion, not fact? You just shot yourself in the foot without realising it my friend.

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Given that the sheer number of similar topics on the forums have been in the negative area of the atma feature, it is easy to conclude that the majority of the people posting on the forums feel that the atma part is no good.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

Hatred? Wow such a strong word. Please go back and read your own posts then mine then say again who has more hatred.

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His posts seem to have calm undertones, while yours on the other hand have been more taunting.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Given that the sheer number of similar topics on the forums have been in the negative area of the atma feature, it is easy to conclude that the majority of the people posting on the forums feel that the atma part is no good.

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Key word stated by you and the OP failed to mention: "forums"

Truthful statement here:

Why doesn't the OP spend the time to make one constructive and thought out thread instead of 4 threads quickly thrown out there?

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I have common sense. I can see who the "wounded dog hollering" is. It's you

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Whatever helps you sleep better at night i guess.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Given that the sheer number of similar topics on the forums have been in the negative area of the atma feature, it is easy to conclude that the majority of the people posting on the forums feel that the atma part is no good.

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Its easy to conclude something but that doesnt necessarily make it true. And again people who complain on forums are those that have a problem. Those satisfied are happily playing the game. But anyway the op inadvertantly admitted it was his opinion so yeah.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

His posts seem to have calm undertones, while yours on the other hand have been more taunting.

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See first point

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Because, I set it up like this and cook dinner. Then I go to another and set the table. Then I go to another and do some work or something. I spent almost none of that time actually playing the game, but I'm still farming FATEs. This means that during the time spent actually in front of the computer I can do other things (or farm FATEs more intensely if that's what I want to use my game time on)

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I guess I understand, though I hope you weren't one of the people going "300 hours in Central Shroud and no drop ><".

Like someone said, the issue isn't lack of patience or not having it handed to you. The big issue is that one person can get a Atma item in less than 5 minutes while someone will do the same thing for 5 hours. The amount of work required from one person is unbalanced with another. Notice how the quest to get the books is significantly less complained about than the Atma items. While yes the books are a major grindfest, everyone is on a equal playing field. Everyone has to do the same thing and takes the same amount of effort to obtain it all.

There are so many better ideas they could of done to make the Atma item grinding much better than it currently is. This type of RNG should never be in the game.

This Thread is just silly. On one hand you have people complaining in probably an exaggerated manor that they spent a ridiculous amount of time getting a single atma. On the other you have more than a few overly self entitled kids who don't wanna share the Atma/Animus sandbox with others because either they were spoon fed by lady luck or just were diligent enough. Both are at fault of taking this to an extreme and derailing all of this.

Speaking as someone with both a Gae Bolg Atma as well as an Artemis Bow Atma, I will even say that the drop rate is questionable at best. My 1st Atma took around 11 hours to drop. My 1st 12 was completed in 36 or so hrs. My 2nd set went a little different. the 1st 6 were spotty because i wasn't hard grinding. the last 6 were all turbo dropped in 1 literal day. I completely agree there is large inconsistencies that should be addressed.

There should definitely be a grind, but a measured one. I got all of mine after working through it for a few weeks. Little by little. I remember starting out I was in central thanalan. I was just seeing how it works. I spent two hours there, and didn't get anything. So I moved on with my daily routine. Then next day I was in one of the beastman areas, because I was working on the new reputation, and once i was done I'm like hey lets try grinding for a atma. I got one in a hour or so. So I was pretty happy.Eventually I came back to central thanalan probably around 8/12. It took another three hours, and 4 episodes of walking dead on netflix, before I got it. Once I did I was like "jesus...." and switched areas. I forget which I went to, but I got a atma on my first FATE. So Even though I got screwed on one, I got positive re-enforcement on that next one. It re-enforced my faith I would get it done, and partially erased that hopelessness feeling. This ping ponging back and forth between good and bad luck made for a decent grind experience. The unfortunate thing is, not everyone gets that kind of middle ground experience. I'm sure most people do. Few people get lucky and get done in 12 hrs. And a few people like my fiancee gets stuck on one, or many, atma that take 30 hours to obtain. I've been helping her with central thanalan, via playing her char, and together on our opposite days off have been trying to get that atma for 2 weeks now.

So going back to my first sentence, Measured grind. Just like many of the "unlucky" are asking for, some way for the game to reward you if you've done a excessive amount of fates to get the job done. Maybe they should require x number of fates. I think 100 is a good overall average between what players are experiencing. Obviously people don't want there chances of a freebie to go away. Honostly I wouldn't mind, altho I'll admit if was in my fiancee's, and all you unlucky people's boat, I likely would. I just wish the fate grinding portion was tracked, and measured, just like the books are in the next stage. Give us a quest that shows 0/100 on each atma. And once we get to 100 BOOM atma. You could call it atma points. And when you defeat a boss fate you get 5, or you fight a 20 second fate, and get 1 point.

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Originally Posted by GerMagic

I'm not saying you're lying, but if that is indeed correct then you're probably the unluckiest person in the world :P

I'm at 7/12 now after roughly 400 Fates which is pretty close to the presumed 2%, however, my first ATMA took around 200 FATEs while the last 6 took also around 200 Fates. Most people I've talked to had a streak of unluck at some point and hit 100-300 Fates without a drop, but 2k seems ridiculous even at 1%. So you either have my condolescences for having such incredibly bad luck, or you're just telling a lie here and actually haven't farmed 100 hours but played 100 hours doing a few hundred fates or so :P

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This ^^ and I really don't remember how long it took to get my Atma's. But I do know that I didn't see my first atma till 5 hours of farming. I was asking people what it looked like, and what to look for because I was confused. And my last one took 8 hours, and that was Southern Thanalan, and that 8 hours was the second time I was there, so... But in between me not getting drops, I tell you one thing. I never came on these threads until I was done...

Guys, I ran out of popcorn. I'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore because the points keep flying around between atma issues into personal attacks on one's character or one's past experiences. It may not always be kosher to bring attention to previous MMOs like FFXI or WoW when defending or attacking a system such as this, but I will say that if those games must be referenced, then this system is doing something that is very reminiscent of actions those games performed in the past.

I would appreciate it if we could either act like rational adults and stop slinging fecal matter around, or that any slinging would be of popped corn into my eating orifice. But honestly, like I said, I'm not even sure what the point of any of this is anymore since both sides are absolutely locked into their opinions.

The truth is that until an undetermined amount of time passes, other methods of obtaining level 95+ weapons are revealed, or something is done to increase the randomness of the droprates, I'm afraid the front page of these forums is going to continue to look like World War Atma.

This is pretty similar to the quest that you guys are defending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOUoE8tw6wQ

Just loop it for maybe 50hrs.

Not sure if someone said this already but a nice solution to Atma's is putting it in guildhest dutie roulette.
One a day with a random Atma.

You know what's worse than the drop rate on Atma? Getting a Dev response to questions about Atma.

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Originally Posted by ereskigal

Not sure if someone said this already but a nice solution to Atma's is putting it in guildhest dutie roulette.
One a day with a random Atma.

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Sadly guildhest daily roulette is almost instant for me.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

You know what's worse than the drop rate on Atma? Getting a Dev response to questions about Atma.

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RNG, get over it bro! ;P

Reading the 100 or so ATMA complaint threads, I'm wondering why it's a bad thing to not clear content as soon as it's expanded. Coil, Ex Primals, main story line, etc. were all cleared a week after release. Yeah, RNG can suck if on the wrong end of the spectrum, but after you get your Animus, what are you going to do to stay occupied til the next update? Maybe, not everyone is supposed to have a legendary weapon... might be why it's so "Legendary"....

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

Maybe, not everyone is supposed to have a legendary weapon... might be why it's so "Legendary"....

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Then make the quest legendary, not grinding low level fates and myth tomes.

Still,

Reviewing all the posts today. I can deduce that the majority (here goes that shameless generalization again) of spoken players despise Atma. Everyone I know on my Server agrees, cannot speak for other servers, but I've not read a single kind comment.

In my FC, most people have spent 40+ Fate Hours grinding and haven't gotten any atmas at all.

I decided to stop tracking hours, and track my achievements for FATES. I was at 400. I'm at 953 now. I don't do FATES anymore now that majority of my classes (Excluding Archer and Pugilist) are 50.

That's 553 Fates.

I'm at 2/12 Atma. Tell me that's not ridiculous?

On a side note: YAY I'M CLOSE TO MY CROWN

@Eggnook24

Stare at my Animus? Run dungeons repeatedly? Play the game. Let's just be clear here, I personally and from what I see from that of others am just wildly irritated by the complete RNG of the system.

I have seldom seen anyone say "Make it Easy SE", just, "Please stop the RNG SE".

I've even suggested that as opposed to RNG the make each Atma piece fragmented and you need to run fates in Central Thanalan for example up to 10 times to build 1 atma from the zone etc.

Put whatever number on that you desire to be fair, just don't give me this wildly varying possibility that leaves me with 2/12 atma after 550 Sum fates. It's boring and not fun.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Then make the quest legendary, not grinding low level fates and myth tomes.

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Only true heroes can bear the repetitiveness and defeat the goddess of luck.

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Originally Posted by Worm

I guess I understand, though I hope you weren't one of the people going "300 hours in Central Shroud and no drop ><".

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Lol, no I'm not. I've completely stopped actively farming FATEs for Atma and therefore have no idea what the equivalent number of hours worth of FATEs I've farmed (I suppose the FATE achievements can tell me how many FATEs I've done). It's still a rather large number of FATEs though.

I still do this AFK Atma farming, but now I craft when I'm waiting on a party or something instead.