The reason Summoner needs revamp threads keep popping up

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Originally Posted by Jediman

That would make sense if they let the egi do the dotting tho.

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How about commanding the Egi to perform its field elemental aoe attack which apply dots like we do Enkindle when commanding the Egi to perform its signature attack.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

How about commanding the Egi to perform its field elemental aoe attack which apply dots like we do Enkindle when commanding the Egi to perform its signature attack.

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http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...w-about-no.jpg

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

A "summoner" in this game doesn't exist, except for groups of beastmen that are subsequently brainwashed by their primals. You wanna become brainwashed every fight?

I think you didn't pay attention to my point. Egis can be put on auto-pilot, and DOTing is the most intricate part of your job. If you have the potential to auto-pilot the most important part of your job, we will have the most unproductive players possible. Pug parties would never let summoners in.

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Beastman don't have Summoner's they have high priest which use crystals to gather enough aether to perform the summoning rituals to call their Primals while Summoner's use summoning magic which uses their Aether to summon and subjugate the Primals.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Beastman don't have Summoner's they have high priest which use crystals to gather enough aether to perform the summoning rituals to call their Primals while Summoner's use summoning magic which uses their Aether to summon and subjugate the Primals.

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Wait what? What gave you that impression?!

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Temuggzoh
Your humble servants beseech You! Grace us with Your divine presence!

Temuggzoh
If it please You, Lord, scorch their heathen souls with Your cleansing flame, and mark them as Your own!

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That seems to show that they are asking him, politely, to do something. I'm sure Ifrit could have just said no if he thought they were acting out of line.

I don't think the tribes control any of their primals. The primals once summoned do what they will, I remember the kobolds cowering once Titan was summoned and worshiping him. Why would they need to do that if he was subjugated and under their control?

I'm thinking the only subjugated primal is bahamut by the allagan. That is something else though, they harness him for power.

I'm not saying Summoner's should have Primals as a permanent pet that would a disaster but they should get an ultimate summon which temporarily evolves the Egi into its parent Primal. Also the Summoner should be able to command the Egi to cast a elemental aoe which causes dot based on which Egi is out.
Ifrit Egi - cast a fire burst aoe which causes burning for 20s on four enemies
Titan Egi -cast a earthquake aoe that causes heavy for 20s on four enemies
Garuda Egi - cast a tornado aoe which causes wind burn for 20s on four enemies
Leviathan Egi -cast Tidal wave Aoe which stuns up to four enemies for 20s
This would incorporate the Egis element and make them more unique.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

I'm not saying Summoner's should have Primals as a permanent pet that would a disaster but they should get an ultimate summon which temporarily evolves the Egi into its parent Primal. Also the Summoner should be able to command the Egi to cast a elemental aoe which causes dot based on which Egi is out.
Ifrit Egi - cast a fire burst aoe which causes burning for 20s on four enemies
Titan Egi -cast a earthquake aoe that causes heavy for 20s on four enemies
Garuda Egi - cast a tornado aoe which causes wind burn for 20s on four enemies
Leviathan Egi -cast Tidal wave Aoe which stuns up to four enemies for 20s
This would incorporate the Egis element and make them more unique.

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So how hard will the nerf bat hit this because of PvP? I'd say harder than MC Hammer's fall from fame.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Everything ever.

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These are some amazing ideas you have... Is what I would say if you were the age of five. Could you please post something that won't cause me or the many other sane people here to /headdesk where they're sitting?

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Originally Posted by Jediman

Its DoT class away from Summoner class and the idea comes from all the final fantasy series lets not forget that.

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You missed my point, and Akiza didn't even bother responding to my point (because I'm right and Akiza has no interest actually arguing against valid points, only in reiterating the same tripe every post).

Paladins aren't real Paladins because they don't have any magic/can't cast Holy. Bards aren't real Bards because singing is only a minor part of their play style. Summoner isn't a real Summoner because the pets aren't cool enough. That's a full third of the jobs not actually being their job according to the fanbase, which is something that "can't be said" according to Akiza.

So the biggest issue with SMN is pet design? Really? Not that only one out of three Egi is worth using? Or the lack of AoE burst damage for dungeon trash mobs? Or the lack of decent crowd control?

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Originally Posted by Ardan

These are some amazing ideas you have... Is what I would say if you were the age of five. Could you please post something that won't cause me or the many other sane people here to /headdesk where they're sitting?

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So basically you want all Egis to be the same with nothing connecting them to their element. At least realistic suggestions to make the Egis more useful and the Summoner more like a Summoner using summoning magic rather than a extension of the dot class

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Originally Posted by Akiza

How about commanding the Egi to perform its field elemental aoe attack which apply dots like we do Enkindle when commanding the Egi to perform its signature attack.

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Yeah that would also work and give us summoner full control of over our egi.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

So the biggest issue with SMN is pet design? Really? Not that only one out of three Egi is worth using? Or the lack of AoE burst damage for dungeon trash mobs? Or the lack of decent crowd control?

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yeah I can't stand the design of it its a next gen pc mmo yet they gave us pile of rocks to play with titan.

Also most players have moved from final fantasy XI so they expect it to be bit different no one asking for the same crap that was in final fantasy XI.


FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Official Benchmark (Character Creation)
Score:11041
Average Framerate:97.684
Performance:Extremely High
-Easily capable of running the game on the highest settings.

Screen Size: 1920x1080
Screen Mode: Full Screen
Graphics Presets: Maximum
General
-Enable HDR rendering and improve overall graphic quality. : Enabled
-Disable rendering of objects when not visible. (Occlusion Culling) : Disabled
-Use low-detail models on distant objects. (LOD) : Disabled
-Cache LOD data only when necessary. (LOD Streaming) : Disabled
-Real-time Reflections : High
-Edge Smoothing (Anti-aliasing) : FXAA
-Transparent Lighting Quality : High
-Grass Quality : High
Shadows
-Self : Display
-Other NPCs : Display
Shadow Quality
-Use low-detail models on shadows. (LOD) : Disabled
-Shadow Resolution : High - 2048p
-Shadow Cascading : Best
-Shadow Softening : Strong
Texture Detail
-Texture Filtering : Anisotropic
-Anisotropic Filtering : x16
Movement Physics
-Self : Full
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Effects
-Naturally darken the edges of the screen. (Limb Darkening) : Enabled
-Blur the graphics around an object in motion. (Radial Blur) : Enabled
-Screen Space Ambient Occlusion : Strong
-Glare : Normal
Cinematic Cutscenes
-Enable depth of field. : Enabled

System:
Windows 8 64-bit (6.2, Build 9200)
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3330 CPU @ 3.00GHz
8143.957MB
AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series(VRAM 4095 MB)

This cost me £350~£450 future proof customized.

http://i58.tinypic.com/261hjf8.png

When you have spec like those then you would want something close like crysis on ultra settings graphic wise. (Thats what I'm asking for as summoner for the egi.)

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

You missed my point, and Akiza didn't even bother responding to my point (because I'm right and Akiza has no interest actually arguing against valid points, only in reiterating the same tripe every post).

Paladins aren't real Paladins because they don't have any magic/can't cast Holy. Bards aren't real Bards because singing is only a minor part of their play style. Summoner isn't a real Summoner because the pets aren't cool enough. That's a full third of the jobs not actually being their job according to the fanbase, which is something that "can't be said" according to Akiza.

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I said that because people were saying Summoner's are actually Summoner's which it's clearly not true. I agree Paladins and Bards are not their job yet Paladin people have similar complaints about them as they do the Summoner's. Other jobs Sqaure has to simply adjust their traits and add minor abilities the Paladin, Bard and Summoner they have to adjust their mechanics.

When you have people actively rejecting you from group because your class is bad, that's when there needs to be a change.

*cough* Warrior in 2.0 *cough*

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

You missed my point, and Akiza didn't even bother responding to my point (because I'm right and Akiza has no interest actually arguing against valid points, only in reiterating the same tripe every post).

Paladins aren't real Paladins because they don't have any magic/can't cast Holy. Bards aren't real Bards because singing is only a minor part of their play style. Summoner isn't a real Summoner because the pets aren't cool enough. That's a full third of the jobs not actually being their job according to the fanbase, which is something that "can't be said" according to Akiza.

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Well you will find that loads of summoner complained regarding the egi the way it looks.
PLD with no curing spells would end up being war.
bard without bard song would end up being corsair.
Summoner without egi end up being a class for doting ( In Final fantasy series perversely it was the avatars egi that did the most damage now its the class thats doing it.)

And now SE is trying to feed us with an story line that was said in the game about the primal egi being small portion of the power that was given to summoners lol

Thats like me saying by the way summoners we will give you egi summoner pet and we will downgrade it because they have small potion of power now (wish it was like that for the rest of the class also lol)


"The primals have always been deities of barbarian tribes and seen as hostile to the different citizens of Eorzea, but few people know that through history, some talented people were able to summon and control a portion of power from these divine beings under the shape of avatars obeying to their will. These aeon masters are called summoners."

small portion of power indeed no wonder they look 2D lol

The Egis are permanent Pets and the embodiment of the elements rather then summons per see. The problem with that is Summoners don't have access to any of those elements Ifrit Egi doesn't give us the Fire Elemental Damage, Titan Egi doesn't give us Earth Elemental Damage and Garuda Egi doesn't give us any Wind Elemental Damage. That's why I was suggesting that Summoner's be able to command the Egi to do Elemental Burst aoe damage leaving a 20s Dot. Anyone saying that will make the Summoner OP forgets that Black Mages can triple tap Flare does that mean Black Mages should be nerfed.

Elemental damage is no longer a thing in XIV so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. The only time it ever matters is when it comes to the player lowering a minuscule amount of damage from the enemy with the use of materia.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

So basically you want all Egis to be the same with nothing connecting them to their element. At least realistic suggestions to make the Egis more useful and the Summoner more like a Summoner using summoning magic rather than a extension of the dot class

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As Kikosho pointed out, elements have little to do with the game anymore so drop it. For realistic suggestions, you're not even making any. All you've been doing in every post is shoving the "remake SMN QQ" stuff down our throats over and over. It's honestly getting tiring to even read because it's the same thing on repeat.

As far as making the Egi's more unique to each other, they already are. Titan is fine, but could use adjustments to damage taken and hate control. The only problem is between Garuda and Ifrit as Garuda just outclasses Ifrit. I've made a post suggesting ideas to improve ifrit a while ago. I'm not even going to repost it, you can search it yourself.

Well all I know is that when I do a player search in the game on my server and see 91 active level 50 black mages over the 35 active level 50 summoners during my prime time then there must be a reason for such a huge gap in these two jobs. SMN needs to be looked at by the devs and seriously tweaked in order to bring the SMN population back up or at some point in time it will become so small that they will be forced to make changes to the job in order to bring players to it.

yes. stop playing the class, don't force the people that like it into something totally different. by level 30 you knew exactly what you were getting into.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

Well all I know is that when I do a player search in the game on my server and see 91 active level 50 black mages over the 35 active level 50 summoners during my prime time then there must be a reason for such a huge gap in these two jobs. SMN needs to be looked at by the devs and seriously tweaked in order to bring the SMN population back up or at some point in time it will become so small that they will be forced to make changes to the job in order to bring players to it.

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It's simply because SMN is harder to play optimally and BLM has muh numbers. No amount of tweaking will change that without killing the way SMN plays. Hell SMN was already simplified when we lost Thunder. We're already a top DPS, outside of some QoL changes we don't need any real tweaking. Also the last patches gave us some of those QoL things we've been wanting, like Obey without a target and such.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

It's simply because SMN is harder to play optimally and BLM has muh numbers. No amount of tweaking will change that without killing the way SMN plays. Hell SMN was already simplified when we lost Thunder. We're already a top DPS, outside of some QoL changes we don't need any real tweaking. Also the last patches gave us some of those QoL things we've been wanting, like Obey without a target and such.

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People switch to Black Mage from Summoner because it's better designed and feels like its actual job not because it's easier to use with the Summoner on the other hand doesn't feel like a Summoner it's designe feels rushed and incomplete. I have six people in my FC that switched to Black Mage from Summoner because of the how poorly Summoner was designed and implemented.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

People switch to Black Mage from Summoner because it's better designed and feels like its actual job not because it's easier to use with the Summoner on the other hand doesn't feel like a Summoner it's designe feels rushed and incomplete. I have six people in my FC that switched to Black Mage from Summoner because of the how poorly Summoner was designed and implemented.

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If I had to listen to you wail and moan throughout my play time about how much SMN sucks, I'd probably switch, too.

If SMN is that much of a disappointment to you, why even bother playing the job at all if it irks you so much. If it's as bad as you say, (which it isn't by any stretch of the imagination, bar yours) why not join the BLM crew like the rest of your FC mates did. Seems to make a lot more sense than just cry tsunamis of tears all over the forums.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

stuff

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With a controller, I can literally play BLM with one hand at 90% efficiency and get big shiny numbers to boost my e-peen. With SMN, it takes both hands constantly moving, and all I get to really see is 350! Ruin/Ruin II crits and the occasional Fester crit. I have to look really, really hard to see my DoT damage and pet damage. That's why people go to BLM...for the big, shiny CRITS! and easy game play, while SMN sees small numbers with more complicated game play. But if played to even 80% potential, SMN is on the heals of most BLM AoE (especially <5 targets) and easily tops BLM in single target damage. Considering the overall superior damage and extremely superior utility SMN brings, it's easily worth the little bit of extra work. Most people just don't want to do it.

Before he quit, I had someone in my FC that swore up and down that SMN was the lowest dps and SCH was the worst single target healer, all because he didn't see big numbers and bigger CRITS!. Misconceptions like these and the ones you spout do not help SMN at all.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

If SMN is that much of a disappointment to you, why even bother playing the job at all if it irks you so much. If it's as bad as you say, (which it isn't by any stretch of the imagination, bar yours) why not join the BLM crew like the rest of your FC mates did. Seems to make a lot more sense than just cry tsunamis of tears all over the forums.

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Because leveling a different class is haaaarrrd?O_o? Akiza would much rather S-E change the entire class to what he wants to validate the his choice to go SMN.

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Originally Posted by Pooky_Pasha

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You're talking to a person who once claimed his Ruin was worth 220 dps by itself, with the pets doing another 200+. I don't think you're going to be able to argue numbers with him. >_>

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

You're talking to a person who once claimed his Ruin was worth 220 dps by itself, with the pets doing another 200+. I don't think you're going to be able to argue numbers with him. >_>

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I'm glad I missed that. I probably saved myself a concussion from what would have been repeated /facepalms

I'm officially upset with myself for opening another thread in which Akiza and Jediman have been bitching about what Summoning really is, and what they would do which is better than what SE would do. I love my Summoner, I really do. Am I playing optimally? Probably not. But it's a thematic, gorgeously built class that makes me glad I started as an Arcanist, and the lore surrounding Primals and the ties to Allagan summoning just make me squee internall...much like I would outwardly if Nathan Fillion walked up and asked for the time.

Then is pathetic Summoner is percieved as such a great job then why do most players think that the Summoner has the lowest dps why do most end game raids don't have a slot for the Summoner instead they consist of 2 Black Mages, Bard and Monk/Dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

People switch to Black Mage from Summoner because it's better designed and feels like its actual job not because it's easier to use with the Summoner on the other hand doesn't feel like a Summoner it's designe feels rushed and incomplete. I have six people in my FC that switched to Black Mage from Summoner because of the how poorly Summoner was designed and implemented.

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I switched from BLM to SMN. Black Mage has less abilities and I find that blm is poorer then SMN in terms of abilities and difficulty. BLM looks kinda brainless.
And honestly I don't want to go back to BLM.
The real fact is that to play well smn you need practice. To play well blm you just need to push the "Fire" button and Blizzard 3 button ;)

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Then is pathetic Summoner is percieved as such a great job then why do most players think that the Summoner has the lowest dps why do most end game raids don't have a slot for the Summoner instead they consist of 2 Black Mages, Bard and Monk/Dragoon.

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Probably for the same reason you think it's bad? Bad SMNs will lead to bad impressions. In SBCoB I pretty much parse equal to or past our MNK as SMN. This is my ignorance shining through, but if I remember correctly there are some individuals who parse do not include the SMNs pet when it comes to average DPS throughout a fight. It's either they forget to or they don't think it counts, which, as a reason is stupid.

As for mostly seeing BLMs in endgame raids, that can hardly be used as proof as for why SMN is bad.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

Probably for the same reason you think it's bad? Bad SMNs will lead to bad impressions. In SBCoB I pretty much parse equal to or past our MNK as SMN. This is my ignorance shining through, but if I remember correctly there are some individuals who parse do not include the SMNs pet when it comes to average DPS throughout a fight. It's either they forget to or they don't think it counts, which, as a reason is stupid.

As for mostly seeing BLMs in endgame raids, that can hardly be used as proof as for why SMN is bad.

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People were saying same thing about Warriors before Square had to change how their skill work. It's so bad that they only take Summoner's for T5 only if thy are using the pet method for taking fireballs.

Most players agree that Square backed themselves in a corner with Summoner when they release new caster classes. The Red Mage already steps on the Summoner because Red Mages is a buff/enfeebling role.

Common definition of the Summoner
Summoners (召喚士 Shōkanshi?) use Summoning Magic, which calls on powerful entities known as "Call Beasts" (Final Fantasy IV), "Espers" (Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy XII), "Guardian Force" (Final Fantasy VIII), "Eidolons" (Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy XIII, and the DS version of Final Fantasy IV), "Aeons" (Final Fantasy X), "Avatars" (Final Fantasy XI), "Primals" ("Final Fantasy XIV"), or simply "Summon Monsters" (most other games in the series). These entities attack enemies, protect the party, or render other forms of aid. Summoners often use commands such as "Summon," but in the original translation of Final Fantasy IV, the command was instead known as "Call". As a magic-using class, summoners are typically shown to be physically frail as a trade-off for high magical potency, and can traditionally equip only light armaments such as clothing and robes.

Akiza, please, do everyone a favor and stop using the words "most Summoners/players". You don't back up your claims and you spew nonsensical diatribe all over the walls like a sprinkler loaded with thinned honey. We get it, you're not happy. We get it, you're just complaining to complain and not engage in constructive dialogue. We get it, two plus two equals "Summoners suck SE, make me happy". Now let's return to our regularly scheduled programming

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Then is pathetic Summoner is percieved as such a great job then why do most players think that the Summoner has the lowest dps why do most end game raids don't have a slot for the Summoner instead they consist of 2 Black Mages, Bard and Monk/Dragoon.

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Because your server is full of idiots. On mine people prefer a SMN over a BLM everywhere but T4. Even then good parties know a SMN can aoe just as well, you just won't burn through spiders as fast.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Shay

Akiza, please, do everyone a favor and stop using the words "most Summoners/players". You don't back up your claims and you spew nonsensical diatribe all over the walls like a sprinkler loaded with thinned honey. We get it, you're not happy. We get it, you're just complaining to complain and not engage in constructive dialogue. We get it, two plus two equals "Summoners suck SE, make me happy". Now let's return to our regularly scheduled programming

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I copied and pasted the Summoner character job description from wikia because the one from Final Fantasy Encyclopedia said Summoner's just summon giant monsters which will work as a ultimate summon but not as a permanent pet. Summoner's neither Summon Giant Monsters or use Summoning Magic right now they only use dots and for lore reasons Summoner's lots their power. This is equivalent to saying for lore reasons the Black Mage lost all their destructive magic and can only cause negative status effects and cast ruin.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Then is pathetic Summoner is percieved as such a great job then why do most players think that the Summoner has the lowest dps why do most end game raids don't have a slot for the Summoner instead they consist of 2 Black Mages, Bard and Monk/Dragoon.

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Our Black Mage rerolled TO Summoner because the damage was significantly higher.

Akiza is just a troll, this quote is irrefutable proof of it.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Most players agree that Square backed themselves in a corner with Summoner when they release new caster classes. The Red Mage already steps on the Summoner because Red Mages is a buff/enfeebling role.

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Man, this again. Where is your evidence that most players think one way or another? I want to see some kind of proof. Most people this, most people that, and not a single stitch of anything to substantiate the claims. Seriously, if you ever want to anyone to take you seriously you need to either stop making claims on other people's behalf that you can't back and be realistic, or provide some damn proof.

Think it is time to petition someone's right to post threads, and post in general be revoked...