It's official Parsers are illegal in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

Not true. Having a parser has improved my play as well as my FFXIV experience considerably.

• It has allowed me to find ways to improve my damage output, both as a tank and as a DPS class. For example, I found that I did a few too many Twin Snakes and not enough True Strikes as a Monk, which results in a DPS loss. I might not have noticed this flaw in my play without a parser. Being conscious of it, I fixed this problem shortly afterwards.A good use for a parser for your own benefit. Also getting the timing down and watching your buffs goes a long way as well.
  
• It has allowed me to find ways to improve my teammates. I noticed our Storm's Path was sometimes not up when the boss did his big damage AoE spell. I checked the parse and noticed that our Warrior used Butcher's Block way too much. Being a Warrior main, I gave him some tips which he was very appreciative of. It made him a better player.As a WAR main, you should be able to recognize the skills he was using without said parser. Watching mob debuffs helps with this as well. Storm's eye/path, Fracture, etc. Threat meter is also a good indicator of tank performance.
  
• It allows me to identify exceptional DPS players. I don't berate bad DPS players but I try to surround myself with like-minded players who are very good at this game. Parsing in PF runs lets me know who these people are. You don't berate, but you wouldn't hesitate to kick either for lack of DPS. I personally offer suggestions. I think you do too though, but many don't
  
• It helps me study and figure out boss mechanics. For example, a boss mechanic dealt 8000 damage to one of my teammates. The same spell did 4000 damage when it hit two players. I used this to determine that the spell splits the damage evenly amongst targets hit. This was key to defeating said boss.HP Bars ftw.
  
• It tells me what percentage HP a boss is at. The game doesn't tell you the boss' HP% but boss behaviors change at certain HP% points. This helps me understand the boss and come up with ways to defeat it. Phase transitions are fairly recognizable based on system messages(like ifrit), mob actions(titan jumps), or T4. Exact percentage is one thing, but you can generally eyeball it and be safe.
  
• It helps me find accuracy caps. It's very easy to not notice a missed attack. A parser allows for me to determine whether or not I miss at various accuracy levels. I can tell when I miss because my combos.

The list goes on and on. There are many positive benefits of having a parser that don't involve yelling at people for having bad DPS.Very true statement.

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I love parsers. I would like for them to be official, but the A-holes ruin it for everyone. This is why we can't have nice things. You are right, it makes theory crafting much easier, but as it stands, SE isn't saying anything about theory crafting. They are concerned about the improper use of parser and the associated harassment.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

Every post from you.

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Holy crap you're toxic as hell. Also pretty ironic you say punish toxic behavior, you pot.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

I know the value of parsers but the only thing you keep bringing up is the reason why you are so reliant on it. 2 wipes doesn't justify going bananas yet people do it anyway.

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Of course, I'm reliant on it. I'll do whatever I can to improve me and my party's chances of success. I'm more interested in playing my video game on my own terms than I am interested in seeking some bullshit moral high ground where statistical data is the devil.

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Originally Posted by Fayto

Holy crap you're toxic as hell. Also pretty ironic you say punish toxic behavior, you pot.

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I'm not toxic at all. Saying things that you don't agree with does not make me toxic. I've never kicked anyone from a party because of their parse results. I'm actually pretty helpful and well-liked among the people I interact with.

The only thing ironic is that anti-parse people want "elitists" (most people who use this word have no idea what it means) to let them play the game on their own terms, but don't want others to play the game on theirs. If people don't want to use parsers, I don't care and wouldn't want one forced upon them. But you guys want people who use parsers to be forced to stop. That's the difference.

Freedom of choice is what I'm advocating for. Not Parser Fantasy XIV.

Things you can normally do:

Calculate DPS/HPS for a particular fight (from logs).

Things you cannot normally do:

See real-time DPS (logs normally have a significant delay before they are written to disk).
Display a countdown timer overlaid on the game screen for big boss abilities, with countdowns and audio warnings.
See precise mob HP.
See exact enmity numbers.

I suspect the camera zoom mod mentioned earlier is going to be the behind those bannings. You are kidding yourself if you think any of the groups that have cleared turn 8 don't use them =( The official mod API can't come soon enough frankly.

Hey guys lets all be nice to people who do 50 DPS. I know I'll give him some constructive critisim about how to do a proper rotation and do dps that's not shit, maybe now we won't wipe to this fight because our dps was shit and the boss enraged. Oh wait I did that and now hes being a toxic douche and swearing at me for having the nerve to try to help him not be a waste of dps slot.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

Hey guys lets all be nice to people who do 50 DPS. I know I'll give him some constructive critisim about how to do a proper rotation and do dps that's not shit, maybe now we won't wipe to this fight because our dps was shit and the boss enraged. Oh wait I did that and now hes being a toxic douche and swearing at me for having the nerve to try to help him not be a waste of dps slot.

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Well, you can't do anything about that, that doesn't justify the use of parsers to blame other players. I saw a lot of people like this when joining random DFs and their response is always the same: "shut up, i know my job"... ok, go ahead, enlighten me -.-

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

No if you suck at DPS and are the reason the group can't pass a dps check you deserve to get kicked.

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Sure, i'm "ok" with this, but when i said "to blame" i meant a lot of peple begins to insult or acting in a way very unpolite... thats not ok

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Originally Posted by Merle

Well, you can't do anything about that, that doesn't justify the use of parsers to blame other players. I saw a lot of people like this when joining random DFs and their response is always the same: "shut up, i know my job"... ok, go ahead, enlighten me -.-

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No if you suck at DPS and are the reason the group can't pass a dps check you deserve to get kicked. Getting kicked for being the reason a group can't clear titans heart or ifrit nails etc is not some grave injustice it is the way the world should be.

I get that people like to be giant asses when the kicking takes place but the idea that kicking someone for under performing is not being elitist its being productive.

Huzzah! Another thread on parsing!

http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyM...ited-child.gif

Protip: If you use a parser, don't tell anyone.

There's no point defending them because there are people out there who don't like them "on principle" or because they've been called out in the past. Use them at your own risk and share your information with people you trust to receive your criticism/advice like an adult rather than taking everything you say about them as an insult. Also..you should probably share said information via VoIP instead of in-game chat.

People from those game that uses parser for competition, come here, abuse parser and crap on people.. now make normal parser user's(for their own improvement) life hard.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

People from those game that uses parser for competition, come here, abuse parser and crap on people.. now make normal parser user's(for their own improvement) life hard.

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Why I don't see a problem with an official in game self-parser. Even more purpose for the training dummies in game.

edit: If someone pressures a party member to give said self-parser results. Its choice and if they refuse to give that info and are removed. It's against the kick vote feature.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Why I don't see a problem with an official in game self-parser. Even more purpose for the training dummies in game.

edit: If someone pressures a party member to give said self-parser results. Its choice and if they refuse to give that info and are removed. It's against the kick vote feature.

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Agreed. A parser for yourself to improve would have no problem at all. I would love to see my results and work to improve
them, but there is absolutely no need for me to see anyone elses numbers. It isn't hard to figure out who is holding a party back even without one anyway, a parser just gives someone "evidence" to rage on another. Unfortunately it is the people who abuse others with it that ruin it for everyone else. It seems that people acting nasty with parsers is on the rise, hell I've even seen PF groups stating "Farming party, will parse results". I was tanking a AK party where there wasn't a single wipe where one DPS was flaming the other DPS because his parser showed he wasn't doing enough dmg. "Go google your job noob" . I regret that I didn't report the guy, cause there is no need for that garbage.

ITT. people wanting mommy-SE to shield them from criticism.

Don't any of you undergo performance evaluations at work? If you're afraid of that in a video game, you're in for something special outside of it. Some supervisors are douchey about it, some aren't. Same way with players.

Also, parsers help with healing analysis just as much as DPS. Running oom all the time? Let's check those numbers to see if I'm properly managing my spell usage and mana cooldowns. Hmm. Based on that fight length, I could probably start using shroud earlier at X instead of later at Y. Oh, snap. I proc'd several freecures that I didn't use. I should find a way to make that more obvious so I don't miss it. My SCH buddy seems to have really low absorbs (lol as if SE will track that) Maybe I'll ask him why that is. Is he remembering to succor before those stomps? Whoa... I see only 5 lustrates used over a 10 minute fight. I am sure people were in need of emergency healing more often than that. Etc.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

My unpopular opinion: Any half decent dps that wants to improve should have their own parser running when running serious content. Statics/fc runs needs to always have a parser running to identify potential weak links/areas of improvements. But I would never use a parser to belittle/point out a stranger's dps in a pug run/df/pf. If it's really bad, I'll just leave and suck up the 30 min debuff.

My unpopular opinion 2: Any half decent dps that wants to improve would actually be happy if someone points out that they are not playing to their full potential/could do better/doing low dps. Its often hard to see one's own mistakes, and having others point it out to you can be a great help.

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This!
Exactly this.

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Originally Posted by Priya

ITT. people wanting mommy-SE to shield them from criticism.

Don't any of you undergo performance evaluations at work? If you're afraid of that in a video game, you're in for something special outside of it. Some supervisors are douchey about it, some aren't. Same way with players.

Also, parsers help with healing analysis just as much as DPS. Running oom all the time? Let's check those numbers to see if I'm properly managing my spell usage and mana cooldowns. Hmm. Based on that fight length, I could probably start using shroud earlier at X instead of later at Y. Oh, snap. I proc'd several freecures that I didn't use. I should find a way to make that more obvious so I don't miss it. My SCH buddy seems to have really low absorbs (lol as if SE will track that) Maybe I'll ask him why that is. Is he remembering to succor before those stomps? Whoa... I see only 5 lustrates used over a 10 minute fight. I am sure people were in need of emergency healing more often than that. Etc.

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LOL, comparing work to a video game. That is the same.

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Originally Posted by Shaone

Things you can normally do:

Calculate DPS/HPS for a particular fight (from logs).

Things you cannot normally do:

See real-time DPS (logs normally have a significant delay before they are written to disk).
Display a countdown timer overlaid on the game screen for big boss abilities, with countdowns and audio warnings.
See precise mob HP.
See exact enmity numbers.

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well... if you use this logic then programs like teamspeak or mumble would also be against TOS because they allow you to do things that you can't normally do in the game. so I think it has to be something more than this kind of logic.

I hate that some people are taking a game that's supposed to be fun this seriously. Anyway I hope I'll still be accepted to parties even if I haven't spent the last 4 months training my XIV skills while sitting under an ice-cold waterfall.

OP, they were always illegal. /thread.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

OP, they were always illegal. /thread.

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why do people keep saying this? lol using a parser hasn't always been illegal. using a parser in certain illegal ways has always been illegal.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

why do people keep saying this? lol using a parser hasn't always been illegal. using a parser in certain illegal ways has always been illegal.

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Real time parsers (Ones that display the data in a UI format while playing the game) have always been illegal but never enforced unless the user was abusing it.

Pasrers that simply gather the log data from a fight and posts it statistics for viewing outside the game has been supported by SE (The reason they gave us the log data in the first place).

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Originally Posted by Codek

Real time parsers (Ones that display the data in a UI format while playing the game) have always been illegal but never enforced unless the user was abusing it.

Pasrers that simply gather the log data from a fight and posts it statistics for viewing outside the game has been supported by SE (The reason they gave us the log data in the first place).

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what you're saying is no different than what i'm saying. parsers in general are not illegal. using parsers in an illegal manner is illegal. you're saying the same thing i'm saying.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

why do people keep saying this? lol using a parser hasn't always been illegal. using a parser in certain illegal ways has always been illegal.

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yes it has, using a parser at ALL (i even made the all big so you can clearly see it) you can be banned no se is not going to ban you unless you say hey i have a parser then someone goes through the whole reporting process and bam you're suspended. using parsers are ILLEGAL (see i even made this word big so you can clearly see it) yoshi p said trear your parser like fight club hush hush don't say anything they are illegal. please stop spreading false information. keep the parser to yourself and you will be fine say something and you can be reported and banned.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

yes it has, using a parser at ALL

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show me where SE has said using a parser at ALL is a bannable offense. the announcement yesterday said using a parser in an illegal way is illegal. it did NOT say that using a parser at ALL is illegal. so unless you have a statement that says using a parser at ALL is a bannable offense capitalizing ALL doesn't prove anything. and Yoshi p's interview shows that using a parser is not bannable. it's how you use the parser that's bannable. so you, sir, are the one spreading false information. it's how you use the parser that will get you banned. you even admit at the end of your post that it's how you use the parser that will get you banned.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

what you're saying is no different than what i'm saying. parsers in general are not illegal. using parsers in an illegal manner is illegal. you're saying the same thing i'm saying.

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Just pointing out the terminology, your phrasing is going to generate a lot of confusion since real time parsers are much more commonly used and people will always think of these when it comes to the term parsers. Since they are using them the way they were intended to be used then your statement implies that they are legal when they are not.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

snip.

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not at all. pointless to argue with you since you don't want your precious parsers to be banned able. don't believe me all you want but you're wrong and spreading false information.

Did he actually use the Fight Club reference? If so that's pretty cool lol

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Did he actually use the Fight Club reference? If so that's pretty cool lol

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yea it was actually pretty funny! but you will never convince the none bleibers he did!

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

not at all. pointless to argue with you since you don't want your precious parsers to be banned able. don't believe me all you want but you're wrong and spreading false information.

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I don't use a parser. so i'm not trying to defend my use of a parser. but not all parsers are created equal. some do way more than read your combat log and do the math for you. yesterday's statement did not say the use of parsers is a bannable offense. it said the use of parsers to do things you normally couldn't do in game is a bannable offense. there's a difference in the two sentences. reading the announcement yesterday as the former would be false information.

So they are not supporting mods in their game, then? Raiding based mods often fall into the category of "being able to do things not normally done in game", especially mods like Big Wigs or Deadly Boss Mod from world of warcraft. That and the most heavily supported mods in the MMO community are going to be raid based modifications: the only reason the other smaller mods can make it is because of the big raid mods driving mod support to the UI system.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

No - Parsers read into data much more than you can "eyeball", hence why they're a 3rd party tool. They also display DoT damage which you, as a player, can't get an accurate number by eyeballing unless you have the cleanest battle log known to man.

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Uh, you can fraps the entire fight and count each and every one of your damage ticks that floats above the target's head.

Lololo.

You can also take the target's health and divide by the time it takes to kill the target.

Welcome to how things were done before we had tools to do things efficiently.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

snip

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my information is based of yoshi p himself. not this thread. i am simply helping people out course some people are stubborn and have said i will use this and if i get banned they lose a customer. not much i can do for them. simply put it has been stated multiple times they are illegal and banned able for simply having them nothing to do with this specific post.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Anyway I hope I'll still be accepted to parties even if I haven't spent the last 4 months training my XIV skills while sitting under an ice-cold waterfall.

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Of course you will be.

Just not my group.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Uh, you can fraps the entire fight and count each and every one of your damage ticks that floats above the target's head.

Lololo.

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Yeah, people who throw out DPS % the second the fight ends really did review an entire 4-10 minute video in 2 seconds...yep.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Yeah, people who throw out DPS % the second the fight ends really did review an entire 4-10 minute video in 2 seconds...yep.

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So the complaint here is that parsers enable faster data analysis? Last I checked, the scrub crywagon was complaining that parsers allowed a player to analyze numbers they would not otherwise be able to do.

I personally don't get why people feel like they have to have a parser. that's my personal opinion. but my problem is all these people that feel like yesterday's warning was some new revelation. like omg parsers are bannable. Yoshi p said if you use a parser be hush hush about it. if you can't use a parser responsibly then you deserve whatever consequences come with it. the truth is people who want to use parsers are going to use it. use them at your own risk. that's how it's always been. yesterday's warning didn't change that. on top of that, some of these parsers do way more than measure dps. I would absolutely agree that these other features are most likely bannable. but then you also have to be careful with that logic because programs like mumble and teamspeak would also have to be bannable. the terms of service do say the use of third party programs or tools is prohibited because it gives players an unfair advantage. well using mumble can give certain groups unfair advantages over other groups that can't use it.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

well... if you use this logic then programs like teamspeak or mumble would also be against TOS because they allow you to do things that you can't normally do in the game. so I think it has to be something more than this kind of logic.

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If you bring in a complete non sequitur that has nothing to do with the differences between reading data presented to the player and scanning hidden data from memory then yes, teamspeak or mumble would also be against the ToS ;)

Either way, I'm actually pro-parsing and think that the game should have one available for more than just PvP. Was just listing the things about some of the common parsers which would probably get you banned for talking about. For example, going in to a brand new raid and announcing in party chat before beginning fight that "OMG boss has 925,000 HP" is probably not the smartest thing to do.

As far as I know, they aren't actively scanning peoples PCs looking for software that is running (like some MMOs), they are examining game data (yes, this would include chat logs) from winning parties on the latest raids and looking for anomalies.

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Originally Posted by Shaone

If you bring in a complete non sequitur that has nothing to do with the differences between reading data presented to the player and scanning hidden data from memory then yes, teamspeak or mumble would also be against the ToS ;)

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XIVDB pulls data directly from the game files. Anyone who's used XIVDB to see the stats on, say, the High Allagan Weapon (which no one has yet), have clearly read hidden game data from the files.

Everyone banned, gg.

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Originally Posted by Shaone

they are examining game data (yes, this would include chat logs) from winning parties on the latest raids and looking for anomalies.

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This is why it's even more important for everyone to use voice comms. Avoid big brother ^_^.

I agree the best way I think SE can handle this situation is to create an in-game self parser for all parts of the game, not just pvp. that way you still have what you need for self-improvement. there's no reason why someone needs to know other players actual dps.

and as far as I know, data mining is not the only use of third party programs that is bannable. any third party program that may give you an unfair advantage is prohibited.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

XIVDB pulls data directly from the game files. Anyone who's used XIVDB to see the stats on, say, the High Allagan Weapon (which no one has yet), have clearly read hidden game data from the files.

Everyone banned, gg.

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Including SE? http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/b6e2e32b45a/

(edit: And they slammed XIVDB and a ton of sites with C&D when they DAT mined the data from the benchmarks before it went on Lodestone ;) )