Parsers

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Originally Posted by Nosiahk

Well, if he did say "you suck!" and goes on with it... then ok, go ahead and report. I just see "Delsus, are you trolling?" as something to "Delsus, you can't be serious?" It wasn't something to be really worked up with.

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It's more the fact that it was an unjustified rude comment (I think it was one of the only times the player in question spoke throughout the battle) Again I was posting this to show how people are using parsers to put players down, and it won't be long before parsers are seen as tools to harass and put players down, and not as tools to help players improve their game.

grow some thicker skin man, if someone asking you if you are trolling is going to be such a huge deal for you then maybe MMO's might be too much for you to handle. personally, i'd be more concerned with why my dps was so bad that someone thought i was trolling

Somewhere there was a translated chat with Yoshida about parsers on one of those game reporting places. Anyway he says as a hardcore gamer he can see the benefit of parsers but he strongly encourages players to keep it to themselves and not call it out in public as it could be bannable by some GM's. Not to mention and I know you lol but it is reportable under the harassment clause of the ToS. These are not my idea or words to be exact but what I have read on this very forum in the past. Just keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by Vasher

So someone calling your poor performance out with actual evidence should result in a ban lol?

If you weren't playing poorly, that person would have never called you out.

Maybe take it as a good sign to practice playing your job well and be an actual contribution to fights.

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Considering its SE's policy of don't ask, don't tell on a 3rd party parser.. Yes, the person talking about the parser could and should be banned. Regardless of how good/bad the player was. Even Yoshi said SE's stance is its a 3rd party program. Don't talk about it in game.

I don't like seeing people get bullied because someone is parsing. Who the heck cares, as long as you are winning? And if you are wiping, then it isn't always because of that one person. And as long as some sort of progression is made, who cares? If you are in a hurry because you have to go to work soon, it's your own risk. But usually it's hardcore people who care about it. If you care so much, do stuff with your FC and only your FC. Why cause yourself and others so much drama? Over killing stuff 4 seconds earlier.

People already get bullied enough over other stupid silly stuff.

I had something similar happen to be after launch. Was doing Titan for Relic quest and someone was running a parser, after the 1st wipe I got called out for having low DPS. The guy was rude about it, But a few people stepped in and said that it was low because I kept getting Gaoled.

Parsers are both good and bad, As long as people use them properly. Parsing your friends/FC/Static and trying to help out is fine, But doing it in a PUG and calling people out and being rude about it isn't.

I personally don't use parsers but to those that do...

What's the first rule of parse club?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I personally don't use parsers but to those that do...

What's the first rule of parse club?

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What club? I know nothing!

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Originally Posted by Icehunter

What club? I know nothing!

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Who are you? :P

There are a lot of DRGs out there who do not use heavy thrust then complain about tanks beating them in damage, because literately they only push 3 buttons which is the full thrust combo. I noticed this in CT last night. Was looking through the log and noticed they never use heavy thrust and just do the full thrust combo. When did this become a thing? People just don't know how to play drg properly or they just don't care?

With DRG is the rotation is complicated if you aren't doing it correctly a tank will beat you in damage by a fairly large amount too. Keep heavy thrust up, keep both dots on the mob, weaving in jumps between combos, making sure to do the disembowel/chaostrust combo when those dots aren't up.

I don't even find that remotely rude.

I say things far worst even when everyone is doing great.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

IF enough of these threads go through they would have to start being active about it and ban everything related to parsing. Good Job for making that one step closer.

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Probably. SE is hellbent on coddling and hand-holding all the players who can't handle anything that isn't bubblegum-flavored sunshine and cotton candy rainbows. God forbid FC's should be able to constructively use parsers within their own raid groups as too many softies might have their little feelings hurt when some socially inept type with a big mouth says something derogatory about their low damage in a random group of strangers.

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Originally Posted by Shyluv

People already get bullied enough over other stupid silly stuff.

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And therein lies the problem. Why do people get so worked up about being 'bullied' over stupid, silly stuff? Where did the ability to shrug off the stupid shit go? Oh, yeah, it ran away screaming from all of this 'self-awareness' crap and all the trophies handed out to the kids who don't even try to win a game because it's supposed to just be fun.

So according to most people in this thread, it seems that people doing bad dps is okay.

Me as a tank it is quite obvious when I am being a bad tank I.E. positioning, not holding aggro, getting dps killed with cleaves, not switching on stacks, etc.

But it's completely okay for DPS to not meet dps checks in fights I.E. EX Titan Heart and post heart(had a group that could dodge literally everything and not get passed the final enrage), almost all of Twin, Turn 4, Ifrit EX Nails, Garudas Sisters.

I don't see how this is fair to me or the Healers(which you can really tell when there are bad heals) in fact. I'm going to assume that most of you who say "Oh but were still progressing isnt that okay" have not cleared anything further than HM Ifrit. I'm sorry to say this, but it's not okay to carry people through content so they can later join an instance they are not ready for, wipe the group, have an random "elitest" yell at them. Then they come on the forum and complain the community is "Toxic" while previously they should have been able to parse ATLEAST more than the tank before queing into the instance.

So this carebare of a community supposodly isnt allowed to bring up the word "Parse" in game because it "offends" people, people seeming to be insecure about thier dps, isnt that the point of being dps? To see big numbers fly accross the board, wouldn't it be great to see BIGGER numbers fly accross the board simply by learning how to do your rotations correctly? So when people do bad dps I should kick them out of the party without explanation and not give them a chance to step up their dps or quickly give them tips or pointers on how their rotations should be laid out? Alright I get it, I'll just randomly kick dps out of my party that dont perform.

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Originally Posted by Provoke

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kicking because they don't play good enough is abuse of the system but ok.

secondly it's already been stated if you need a parser to notice someone isn't dpsing as good as someone else obviously they are dpsing pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

kicking because they don't play good enough is abuse of the system but ok.

secondly it's already been stated if you need a parser to notice someone isn't dpsing as good as someone else obviously they are dpsing pretty well.

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Wow, missing the entire point to parsing in general heres an example.

If you are a bard on Titan Extreme and am doing lower dps then Me as a Tank, THERE IS A PROBLEM.

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Originally Posted by Provoke

Wow, missing the entire point to parsing in general heres an example.

If you are a bard on Titan Extreme and am doing lower dps then Me as a Tank, THERE IS A PROBLEM.

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not missing the point at all how would you need a parser to see that? quite clearly you can see they are doing alot wrong. no need for a parser.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

not missing the point at all how would you need a parser to see that? quite clearly you can see they are doing alot wrong. no need for a parser.

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As a healer and tank doing hard content, I find it hard to focus on what the dds are doing.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

not missing the point at all how would you need a parser to see that? quite clearly you can see they are doing alot wrong. no need for a parser.

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Rather than looking at numbers on the side of my screen I should stare at another players character and see which attacks they are using and when, during the whole fight, hmm, no.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

kicking because they don't play good enough is abuse of the system but ok.

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How is that abuse of the system, if say a single person is holding back an entire party from progressing it seems very fair to remove the weak link be it healer, dps, or tank. I can't even count how many times a player from each role has needed to be removed although every time they are asked nicely to leave and 9 time out of 10 we finish after the replacement so I don't see how in any way that is abuse. After many tries and same person making same mistakes it's time for them to pack up and leave.

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Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze

How is that abuse of the system, if say a single person is holding back an entire party from progressing it seems very fair to remove the weak link be it healer, dps, or tank. I can't even count how many times a player from each role has needed to be removed although every time they are asked nicely to leave and 9 time out of 10 we finish after the replacement so I don't see how in any way that is abuse. After many tries and same person making same mistakes it's time for them to pack up and leave.

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If someone is low on dps, especially in df and progression static group, u should find out whats the cause of low dps and fix it, not kick the player. I hope u get a ban asap, because from what ur saying u must have kicked many innocent players.

Yeah. If a tank is doing more damage than a dps, something is wrong. But instead of bullying and belittling, you could say something like, "are you doing this? Is this in your combo?" Could take a moment to ask what is going wrong and offer suggestions.

Yeah, you maybe shouldn't have to teach someone their job at titan ex. But in a perfect world, wouldn't need parsers either. If you can't or don't want to teach and it is such a problem for you, as I said; run with your fc and only your fc.

Either way, it is a risk you are taking. If you wanna parse when it's not allowed and bully someone over it, and have them report you, that's fully your choice. No one to blame but yourself. Can say they need to grow thicker skin all you want. Won't fix anything.

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Originally Posted by Shyluv

Yeah. If a tank is doing more damage than a dps, something is wrong. But instead of bullying and belittling, you could say something like, "are you doing this? Is this in your combo?" Could take a moment to ask what is going wrong and offer suggestions.

Yeah, you maybe shouldn't have to teach so
Either way, it is a risk you are takinall you want. Won't fix anything.

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Trying to remember where I said in my post that I would bully anyone over having bad dps, or right I never did, I actually said that I would be willing to offer tips. Good job though at reading my post tho, and also assuming negative things are going to happen. Which is partly why SE doesnt involve in game parsers.

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

If someone is low on dps, especially in df and progression static group, u should find out whats the cause of low dps and fix it, not kick the player. I hope u get a ban asap, because from what ur saying u must have kicked many innocent players.

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Lemme get this straight, you hope I get a ban for giving people many chances before nicely asking them to leave? And innocent? When you explain to someone what they are doing wrong nicely they admit it and they do their best to try to fix it, if it doesnt get fixed in many more attempts then usually they step out without a fight because they know they are holding back a group, and more times than not when you explain it that way they leave by themselves without needing to be asked.

So from where am standing the only ass I see here is you. There is a limit to how much you can carry someone, if they aren't going to put the same amount of effort as the rest of the party why should they get some kind of special treatment? That said, you make a hell of alot of assumptions considering the ironic "find out what's the cause" when you yourself just jumped the gun. And again, reread what I said in the post you yourself quoted, "After many tries".

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Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze

After many tries and same person making same mistakes it's time for them to pack up and leave.

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

If someone is low on dps, especially in df and progression static group, u should find out whats the cause of low dps and fix it, not kick the player. I hope u get a ban asap, because from what ur saying u must have kicked many innocent players.

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Oh hey look, another case of, "I respond to posts but don't read them." fascinating.

The player isnt innocent, he is in fact guilty. I myself have taken my step out of groups in the past for underperforming until I got the hand of content and so should other players, 7 players should not have to teach 1 person how to do something for 3 hours.


Let's make an example of something that would happen in real life, since most of us are males here ill make it simple, your favorite football team drafts a new QB first game he throws an interception on every play, team loses. Are you going to sit there hope he just suddenly does better so your team keeps losing or are you going to try out 2nd string.

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Originally Posted by Provoke

Trying to remember where I said in my post that I would bully anyone over having bad dps, or right I never did, I actually said that I would be willing to offer tips. Good job though at reading my post tho, and also assuming negative things are going to happen. Which is party why SE doesnt involve in game parsers.

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Wasn't directed just at you. You just provided a good example.

In your case, you don't have to even mention a parser. Just say, "I noticed you aren't doing this in your rotation. Try this". They can't blame you for using a parser then. And if they still take it personal, they either read what you said in a rude way, or maybe they really do have thin skin. At that point it's out of your hands and there's nothing you can do but replace them if they aren't willing to listen.

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Originally Posted by Provoke

Are you going to sit there hope he just suddenly does better

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This player mentality is the root of all kicks for underperformance. Sudden automatic improvement is not gonna happen, u have to put in a little effort. Is asking player for a general rotation, how he uses off-gcd skills or handles burst dps checks, then pointing out the errors and suggesting tips that difficult?

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

This player mentality is the root of all kicks for underperformance. Sudden automatic improvement is not gonna happen, u have to put in a little effort. Is asking player for a general rotation, how he uses off-gcd skills or handles burst dps checks, then pointing out the errors and suggesting tips that difficult?

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You are not reading any of my posts, why are you responding.

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Originally Posted by Provoke

Trying to remember where I said in my post that I would bully anyone over having bad dps, oh right I never did, I actually said that I would be willing to offer tips.

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I honestly can't wait for the add-on support that we were promised years back. So I can finally show everyone how bad they really are at this game. ;)

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Originally Posted by Balfreid

I honestly can't wait for the add-on support that we were promised years back.

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Didnt they said 6 month after released or something? Isnt it already past 6 month so far?
But yeah, I cant wait for add-on either.

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

This player mentality is the root of all kicks for underperformance. Sudden automatic improvement is not gonna happen, u have to put in a little effort. Is asking player for a general rotation, how he uses off-gcd skills or handles burst dps checks, then pointing out the errors and suggesting tips that difficult?

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I'm curious, why is it a strangers responsibility to teach someone how to play their job? I already put in my effort learning my job and the content. If the player cannot keep up with the party, I fail to see why removal is such a big deal. Especially on a vote kick. This means at least half the group felt you were a detriment. That's not to say that players cannot improve, but wasting 7 others' time is not the way to go about it. Find a learning party, or do some research, or even better join a FC that can help you learn both rotations and content.

If your performance is sub-par and you are removed for it the response is not to complain, the response is to get better so that it doesn't happen again. There are many ways to go about it. Find a constructive one.

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Originally Posted by Balfreid

I honestly can't wait for the add-on support that we were promised years back. So I can finally show everyone how bad they really are at this game. ;)

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These comments are exactly why they haven't given us this feature. People will harass with it.

Was just in a group where a tank was running a parser. DPS was definitly failing the DPS check. That was pretty obvious. He starts going off of everyone saying nobody is good enough for the fight etc. etc. Then calls me out, "DRG had best DPS but still nowhere near good enough for this fight." "DPS is bad, google your jobs" Guess next time I should just keep DPSing even though I am pulling agro off of the tank, don't want to have a bad parser #. IMO parsers just toxify the community. This is a game about working together, not an e-peen war. I'd like an add-on parser to see my own numbers, but in no way do i need to see everyone elses numbers.

Not like anyone really needs a parser to see who isn't pulling their weight

This community was toxic before parsers, the tipping point being 2.0 release.

Clearly it's the parser's fault that the OP was inexperienced and did not perform his role well.
If the parser had not been turned on, his DPS and experience level would have been well above average.
I'm not rolling my eyes or anything ladies and gent. This is fact.

Reading some of the posts here makes me sick to my stomach. So much selfishness & entitlements. You know what? I have never used the vote kick system, never once abused or harassed a player, I even always vote no if someone else initiated the vote as I don't believe in the system. However, at the end of the day baddies want to get carried.

I don't mind, just pay me first.

Belittling and harassing should never be encouraged, but we cannot disagree that there are a lot of people in this game who cannot handle a shred of constructive criticism. I've lost count of the number of times I've told other DPS classes their correct rotation in a nice manner only to be replied in a very rude way.

Your only have one job as a DPS, and it's not spamming your Full Thrust Combo as a DRG, refusing to use Thunder as BLM, and using Fists of Earth as Monk. We should all try to play our classes to the best of our abilities. If you're a DPS and your damage is incredibly low and someone tells you how to make it better, please listen and use the advice.

Things shouldn't be "it doesn't matter as long as we win" because high damage over time is not a "bonus" or a nice thing that you do as a DPS, it's your job. Learning to squeeze all you can from your class and having fun while playing are not mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

And remember that there are people out there trolling, so it was a legitimate question.

Anyway, what is so bad about asking if someone is trolling? You would think he had kicked your dog or something the way you reacted to it.

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Because 'trolling' is usually not seen as acceptable behaviour, and as such it's not a good thing to be called.
A vaguely relatable analogy is seeing a stranger splurging IRL, and immediately go, "Are you a thief? You seem to have way too much money." I mean, there are thieves out there, so it's a legitimate question, right?
(I know it's not too accurate, seeing as it's illegal to steal but not usually illegal to troll - other than possibly facing suspension/ban if you go too far - but even so it's still an incredibly rude assumption.)

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

User Agreement
[2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.]

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Umm... I'm not too familiar with how parsers work, but isn't the point of them to gather combat statistics and compile them in some way? Doesn't that technically fall under "collect information"? Or am I misunderstanding how they work?
(Alright, so 'data mining' usually refers to trying to extract source code, afaik, but still...)

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

These comments are exactly why they haven't given us this feature. People will harass with it.

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People will harass regardless. Parsers have been around forever in MMOs. It is used to help better yourself and keep track of others in your groups.

No one wants to play with bad players in endgame content. That is how MMO's will always be with the endgame crowd.

(In before people don't want to actually be pointed out for doing something wrong in their game because it "ruins their experience" and "games are supposed to be fun")

Meh Delsus just gotta grow thicker skin. That's just how FFXIV end game is unless you play in a bubble. Just use it as motivation to improve your game rather than create a post about it. It's not the parser, it's the player. He would of been a jerk regardless if he was parsing or not. Blacklist the person and never play with him again or just move on if he's not on the same server.

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Originally Posted by Balfreid

I honestly can't wait for the add-on support that we were promised years back. So I can finally show everyone how bad they really are at this game. ;)

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Implies people are bad. Needs add-ons ;)

Back on topic. The only time it is appropriate to tell someone ELSE what they are parsing is when they ask. It isn't your job to micromanage someone elses play. If you set up a group, you are free to manage that group how you see fit as long as parameters are set in place first (ie every PF group). If you do it in DF, you're just a twat.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Meh Delsus just gotta thicker skin. That's just how FFXIV end game is unless you play in a bubble. Just use it as motivation to improve your game rather than create a post about it. It's not the parser, it's the player. He would of been a jerk regardless if he was parsing or not. Blacklist the person and never play with the game or just move on if he's not on the same server.

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It's not about that, it's more about players who legitimately use parsers who end up being seen as jerks because of the minority of users, as I said before I have no issues with people parsing fights to give constructive criticism, but if the reports keep going in about xxx character was a douchebag, yyy character was an a-hole, zzz character was a jerk because I parsed lowest, why wouldn't SE just say "Ok to prevent the masses of harassment we will start instantly banning players using third party software to parse battles." insert an algorithm to detect a third party program accessing chat logs, or keep them server side, then legitimate players are affected.whereas right now we can use parsers now, speak about them in vent/TS3/Mumble/ people you know, but it would take very little effort to change that.