How come we can't play with friends?

Some people just don't like options, these types of people want you to respect a certain game's vision as if it's set in stone and any sort of feedback as positive as it is will be met with their dislike because they like their perfect immutable game descended from the heavens as flawed as it really is. We could have a wider selection of content offering gear with the same iLV but each piece of content offering different attributes and bonuses to abilities, if the game still had that system like it used to mind you, what lots of people refer to as sidegrades, and also not limited entirely to instanced content because yes we admittedly already have a sliver of sidegrades with primal accessories and weekly weapons and yes even Myth gear and Coil gear counts, as weekly locked as they are.

Yet options are bad until the team incorporates them into the game, only until then will they be defended and embraced as a novel idea and cheers will be had.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Some people just don't like options

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It's not that people don't like options. They just want said options to be good.

Treasure Hunting, aka popped monsters, are a great way to add overworld content because you get your pop item, organize your group and proceed to the location and imediately start playing.

An NM system like FFXI is crap because you have to wait for the NM to pop and then hope your group gets claim so you don't waste your time.

I did enough waiting around in FFXI to last me a lifetime. I'm so burned out on it that I already find it annoying having to wait for FATE's and Unspoiled gathering nodes to pop. SE needs to expand on the TH system and similar stuff to that where the player has control over when they do said content, not go back to a system where you spend most of your time not actually playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Mur4masa

Find the post that asked for the world bosses/NMs/Elite Mobs/ anything to drop the highest tier end game gear. Don't think you'd find that. It doesnt have to be end game gear, but we dont want it to be animal fat and potash. What's so hard to understand? Whats so hard about grasping the concept of having multiple i70+ or whatever item level of sets in the same ilvl range. We want it to be WORTH WHILE.
Just because I don't know what that item is, doesn't mean anything at all. We're talking about mobs droping something other than skins and garbage

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I'm glad you agree with my post then.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

using Tera as an example then? It was a terrible example was my point I don't really have a horse in this race.

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Alright so lets scratch Tera then since using that as an example is soo horrible /rollseyes

Is Aion better? You can't faceroll anything end game in that game. Their world bosses require an entire alliance.

On topic of the primal summon....what stops a fc from griefing and never using it just to keep it from everyone else on the server?

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

It's not that people don't like options. They just want said options to be good.

Treasure Hunting, aka popped monsters, are a great way to add overworld content because you get your pop item, organize your group and proceed to the location and imediately start playing.

An NM system like FFXI is crap because you have to wait for the NM to pop and then hope your group gets claim so you don't waste your time.

I did enough waiting around in FFXI to last me a lifetime. I'm so burned out on it that I already find it annoying having to wait for FATE's and Unspoiled gathering nodes to pop. SE needs to expand on the TH system and similar stuff to that where the player has control over when they do said content, not go back to a system where you spend most of your time not actually playing the game.

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Going to go ahead and break this down piece by piece...

1. Treasure Hunting, aka popped monsters, are a great way to add overworld content because you get your pop item, organize your group and proceed to the location and imediately start playing.

Nothing wrong with having pop NMs / Treasure hunting coincide, but the current problem is the rewards / lack of anything really useful.

2.An NM system like FFXI is crap because you have to wait for the NM to pop and then hope your group gets claim so you don't waste your time.

I think we have already offered many ways that NMs could work in this game without annoyingly long pop times or claim wars. 1.0-1.2 NMs really didn't have that long of pop timers, 5-15 minutes for a chance at an upgrade / sidegrade / quality of life item wasn't really that bad. Hell I would be happy with an hour long pop time. As for claim wars, it wouldn't really be that hard to put thresholds of HP healed / damage dealt to give everyone the same %chance of drop.

3.I did enough waiting around in FFXI to last me a lifetime. I'm so burned out on it that I already find it annoying having to wait for FATE's and Unspoiled gathering nodes to pop. SE needs to expand on the TH system and similar stuff to that where the player has control over when they do said content, not go back to a system where you spend most of your time not actually playing the game.

I don't know about you, but I spend 4-6 days of WAITING AROUND to do anything worth anything in this game as it is. I'm guessing you could argue "you are playing wrong / all your jobs aren't 50", but I don't find it WORTH IT to level those jobs, as they don't contribute anything to me outside "OMG IT SAYS 50 NOW, MY LIFE IS COMPLETE!".

In closing, all of these arguements are crap, and really don't hold up. Instead of saying "no don't add it because it could/would/should get abused" how about actually thinking of ways that they won't be abused, and then submit those ideas to the attention of the devs. There are already plenty of half decent ideas in this thread as far as 1.what kind of loot 2.degree of difficulty 3.how to prevent it from being botters only 4.making it 100% manditory 5.waiting times / lock out that I really don't see why these ideas can't be actually considered. I wish people would stop crying about it and think about how to get it to where it would be an ideal system. I honestly think it would be a nice system to keep people around to do things a little bit longer.

Edit: Wanted to point out, I'm not attacking your ideas personally, it's just these are the same washed out complaints that I keep seeing, but there is honestly no constructive ideas as to how to get these to work to where it IS NOT everything you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

On topic of the primal summon....what stops a fc from griefing and never using it just to keep it from everyone else on the server?

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It was mentioned in the same interviews that there would be a time limit on how long it is available and if you don't use it by then you will lose access to the summon and everyone has the chance to claim it again.

Look at those graphics man, the character models in that video look so good!

I don't think it's a matter of people not wanting to actually Fight NMs like Dodore and Uraeus for a neat item (tricorne from uraeus, material from Dodore). 1.0 wasn't that bad in how they did NMs, and I thought it was better then 11.

Long rant ahead before some open world stuff.

I think most people, when they see open world NM, they go "oh crap they want FF11 NM hunts back". And there are issues with 11s system, which some people have gone over. The Open World NM system, although optional, was made mandatory in order to actually do anything. Oh, you don't have this item from this NM that only spawns once a week? Well, you're not getting any parties until you get that item. Buy it from the AH. But that item costs 250k+ for a level 50 item (exaggerating on price a bit, but not by much). Because it was so much FUN sitting in Whitegate trying to organize or join parties but couldn't do either because you were missing that back piece, or missing that ring, or boots, or whatever, that dropped from an open world NM. And don't get me started on camping NMs for cash to buy from the AH, because if it's the first job you're trying to level, you have nothing. No gear or levels to farm NMs that drop the items you need, and definitely no cash to buy it. And that's not for Best in Slot Level Capped gear, that's for leveling gear. People don't want that again, and I don't blame them.

Before 1.0 shut down, I farmed(soloed as whm and drg in 1.0, soloing as whm sucked a lot) Kokoroon for Kokoroons Nestpicker(bow) and scale mail. Probably had to kill him about 50 times for the bow. I don't remember if it was BiS for it's level (40 something I think), but I wouldn't be shunned from a party for not having it. 1.0 and ARR are much more forgiving in this then 11 was, which is a good thing. The only people excluding others from fights, are those setting ilvls in PF stupidly high for fights (ilvl 80 ifrit hm. really?)

People have also been saying that there's no horizontal progression, which is false. The different i90 item sets, myth/allagan/primal, are technically, horizontal progression items from each other. They all have the same main stats, and most have different sub stats then other sets, there are exceptions(ie Drg Myth and Allagan helm, both have same stats). The reason people don't see it like that, is because they're focused on Best in Slot. People theorycrafted, people jumped on those numbers, and went "No, that's Best in Slot, and if you don't have it you're a scrub". So for the hard core of the hard core, there's no horizontal progression, it's BiS only.

In 1.0, we had a few things for open world content. Chocobo caravans for seals, Faction Leves(not really sure why they got rid of those but oh well), and Behests(which I really miss). Essentially everything else was an instanced fight of some sort. Sphosae in Limsa was an open world dungeon that dropped plundered gear, now replaced by Satasha. Mun Tuy Cellars in the Shroud was also an open world dungeon. People camped those NM spawns if they could. With the world redesign, Behests don't really work, they're essentially FATES on a path. Follow this path, kill mobs that spawn, repeat till done. Again, with the redesign of the world, the Chocobo Carvans don't work either and need to be redesigned if they are going to be added in again.

Also.... that other event on the island(instanced again) that dropped Giantsgall weapons. Which is eventually coming back, they just don't know when yet.

It's been pretty clear since ARR was in development that it would be a gear treadmill, and there are some problems with that, but lets focus on the Open World stuff. There are things planned for it that they haven't put in yet, open world Primals, and some other things I can't recall right now(go watch live letters, its there somewhere).
Any Open World content added needs to have some sort of reward that the players deem useful, or they won't do it. It has to provide something. Treasure maps provide rare materials and rare loot. NMs could provide materials/items(but they already torched the NM idea, so I don't know why people keep bringing up. NMs as we know them from 1.0 and 11 are dead to this development team). Having mobs popped like in treasure maps/levequests, but be specific NMs, would alleviate this a bit, but again, would have to drop something worth while or people won't do it. The rewards need to be worth the time invested.

To those of you waiting around bored for 6 days of the week because there is nothing worth doing(in your opinion): yay for gear treadmill, you'll get to do more in 2.2! Until you get all your new gear and start complaining again. If you're doing t1-5 and extreme primals all in one night, you're a minority(although seemingly becoming a large number of people, so who knows how long you'll still be a minority). People find worth in the different content, some all of it, some only small portions of it. Sucks you don't enjoy all of it, but to each their own.

All that said and done, you all seem to be forgetting the most important part: It needs to be worth the development cost and time. If there is an idea that goes against something they've already said they're not doing (ie, open world NMs), you're going to have to do a damn good job convincing them it's worth the cost to do it. They have a strict development schedule with certain milestones to be met, in order to give us the content they are currently developing. Content doesn't grow on trees(or in this case, the code doesn't build itself and the models don't... draw? themselves). If they're going to work on something not currently planned, it needs to fit into what they're working on, and it has to fit with their design philosophy. The customer(us players) have to like what they create, and the designers aren't going to half ass anything(hopefully) just to please us by making a system that goes against the grain. They will finish their main milestones/projects for this game first before working on side jobs.

There have been good suggestions made, but people need to stop looking at it from an I WANT stand point and look at it subjectively. Whatever the Devs do, it needs to fit the game, and what you WANT most likely won't be what you get.


So I think this was mostly coherent. It's late. I'll come back to it tomorrow.

Would be be nice is some type of dungeon randomization, layout, number in mobs, etc. Probably a stupid idea of mine. I like wp, but aside from the stalker sometimes appeared when you don't expect him, there is no variation. The mobs are the sames, everything is the same, except the effects of timing and what different ppl in a party do. But those differences are so small in the scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

It was mentioned in the same interviews that there would be a time limit on how long it is available and if you don't use it by then you will lose access to the summon and everyone has the chance to claim it again.

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Yup yup. I think if it wasn't used in 2 weeks, it would roam free again.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I think something you're overlooking is that there will always be new players that come into this game and will eventually have to progress through all the content if they want to see all of the different stories the game has to offer. (if they so choose to) And yes, while CT and Coil aren't party of the Main Story I feel they're still important enough to do to know what's going on in the world. I also realize a lot of people don't care about the story and just wanna click through dialog boxes so they can get to their shiny loot faster, so to each their own..

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I watch all the cutscenes and read all the "relevant" story stuff ( I usually skip through the "oh rats ate my bread kill them for me!!!" stuff unless its amusing) Giving new players an extra week of content before they sit on their hands is a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

The lack of randomness in dungeon mobs is due to the scripting of said mobs. If open world mobs are scripted too (and they are) then there's no randomness there either. Mobs always respawn in the same places.

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Since you only chose to quote part of the post

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

The difference is open world has RANDOMNESS. Let me explain how this does not apply to instances. We will use WP as an example.


WP you load in and your in a square room with a little hallway path in front of you.
Not too far ahead you will see a couple adventurer npc fighting a tonberry.
When this dies they will go away and 2 tonberries will spawn
Next you turn right and walk down another short path and there are 2 birds and a chest.
Turning left there is a set of stairs and when you get to the top there will be some very weak swarm beetles spawn that you can ae down in a couple casts.
Continue straight ahead and you will run into a tonberry and 2 birds in a largish square room
Turn left and you will run into 2 snails and a gator fish in a small connecting hallway
Just past the previous pack is a square room with a pool in the middle with a chest on the far side. Going near it will spawm more beetles. A tonberry will be walking around the room
Next you go down the hall on the left and there is another pack in the hall and just beyond that a 2nd pack with a door opposite the hall you come in from.
Killing the tonberry in the lack pack will open the door and you can then procees down a pathway to the 1st boss a big gobbule that has the same abilities, hp, and damage every time



Is my point made?

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Ok so.. lets compare this to open world shall we.

You go to the Kobold mines in Outer La Noscea
Any Kobold Quarryman has a 2% chance to respawn as The Kobold Quarrymaster


Now how about you go ahead and tell me when and where the Quarrymaster is going to spawn? I need a exact X/Y coordinate and exact time down the minute. EST if you could please.

Wait you can't? WHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT!?? Well would you look at that shit

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

It's not that people don't like options. They just want said options to be good.

Treasure Hunting, aka popped monsters, are a great way to add overworld content because you get your pop item, organize your group and proceed to the location and imediately start playing.

An NM system like FFXI is crap because you have to wait for the NM to pop and then hope your group gets claim so you don't waste your time.

I did enough waiting around in FFXI to last me a lifetime. I'm so burned out on it that I already find it annoying having to wait for FATE's and Unspoiled gathering nodes to pop. SE needs to expand on the TH system and similar stuff to that where the player has control over when they do said content, not go back to a system where you spend most of your time not actually playing the game.

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So more instant gratification triggered content. This is no better than instances. Only difference is there's no trash before hand.

So you do what now exactly? Sit around in FFXIV and wait for Monday for resets? Yea... I see your point I like my ledge in Mor Dhona too.