Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Simply because level-sync is optional and won't be used UNLESS there is a greater reward at the end. Then again, level-sync REQUIRES you to have a lower level in your group as opposed to a cap (optional for better reward) doesn't have that restriction and offers replay value. Again I stress optional with better rewards since it will please both people who wants to steamroll the low content because its so fun to them, and the ones that want a challenged available to them with somethign to show for.

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I can't tell if we're agreeing or not at this point, heheh.

The impression I get from the "level cap" crowd is that the challenge is itself a reward. I'm not sure that offering better rewards for level-sync parties would be fair to parties that are composed entirely of legitimate R25 classes.

I have no problem with people who want to experience the content at-level, but I do take issue with the insistence that everyone should be forced to.

Myself, I have days where I want the challenge, and days when I want the streamroll. Maybe that's why having an optional level sync seems the ideal solution for me.

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Originally Posted by Richard

By the time this patch hits I wont have any 25-30 jobs left and I should be forced to Leave one at mid content level just to experience the dungeon with a challenge. Are you familiar with common sense?

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First of all, I don't see you getting 5 jobs above the required rank before the patch. And if you DO, knowing what you know as of this moment, then YES it is your fault.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

i got a huge feeling youll easily find people to do it that arent 50s
or people who have 50s(and lower jobs) who will GLADLY go on that lower job to run it at the range you desire for it

so that shouldnt be a problem

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Originally Posted by EgweneALvere

And that is when you kindly say "No Thanks" You DON'T have to accept a higher lvl person in your pt.

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You must be new to MMORPGs. This looks great on paper, but simply does not happen in practice.

Then again, that's the status quo for this game, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Ogun_Riastradh

Our point is, we don't have R30's anymore. So yes, we are very familiar with the armoury system.

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What's your character name and server?

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Why would anyone do 5-stars if there is no incentive? Also scaling is not really good for replay value because at one point you will still out-level the content and be able to take people on your 5-star runs while they sit back and you clear everything. Optional cap with better rewards offers that, rewarded challenge for those who wish and no challenge for the others who wants that. So that even in 5 years, if you want to help a new person get those special rewards, you still have a challenge waiting.

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why should they do the r30 dungeon when they have 50s and dont need r30 gear?
its the samer arguement, CUZ THEY CAN

the important thing here is that players want to play a certain way, and they should stop caring how other players play

if there is no rank cap, there is no rank cap, it doesnt ruin the experience for ANYONE who wants to do it at the designed level of the dungeon, since all they have to do, is do it at those levels

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Then run it as a rank 30! lol. For pete's sake. Are you familiar with how the armoury system in FFXIV works?

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Not everyone wants to play different classes, yet everyone might want ongoing challenges.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

so if you dont care how i play the game why do you w3ant to force me to play it your way?

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No one can be this dumb. I just refuse to believe that you cannot be trolling. Capping a dungeon at x level does not hurt anyone below are at that specific level. If you are R50 and could CARE LESS about mid content then don't do it.

No I am not new to MMO's I just know how to say no if I need/want to.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

You must be new to MMORPGs. This looks great on paper, but simply does not happen in practice.

Then again, that's the status quo for this game, isn't it?

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ah, more insults, love it
so your telling us that everyone has your attitude basicaly, being stuck up and thinking that everyone is just a douchy player altogether

no, i have more faith in people then that

if people want to do r30s, with r30 players, then people will be on their r30s helping them out to do it


people are there in those ranges, people have jobs in those ranges, those players will be allowed to do the content at the designed level, easily

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

First of all, I don't see you getting 5 jobs above the required rank before the patch. And if you DO, knowing what you know as of this moment, then YES it is your fault.

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First off you are an idiot. That is not my Lodestone. This is: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=1271410 I have THM at 28 and MRD at 22 atm and they will both be mid 40's by the time this patch hits. Maybe do a little more research before you try and prove a point.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Oh well, then it's a good thing you don't have all your jobs above the recommended level then: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=1384495

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There is a difference between ranking up some jobs only for skills, versus jobs we enjoy playing for NM's, raids, and dungeons. You are proposing that we be forced to chose between
1. ROFL stomping on our preferred R50 jobs,
2. To play though on jobs that may or may not be rank appropriate, regardless of the fact that we do not particularly enjoy that job.

Either way, fail is fail.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

why should they do the r30 dungeon when they have 50s and dont need r30 gear?
its the samer arguement, CUZ THEY CAN

the important thing here is that players want to play a certain way, and they should stop caring how other players play

if there is no rank cap, there is no rank cap, it doesnt ruin the experience for ANYONE who wants to do it at the designed level of the dungeon, since all they have to do, is do it at those levels

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That's why I stress the "rewarded accordingly" thing. If you are rank 50 and want to level another class that has a piece of gear that drops in the level 30 dungeon. You could go steamroll through it and get that piece, fine. But if you decided you wanted to get the HQ version of that gear or maybe a novelty item you would have to cap yourself at level 30 in order to get that. THAT would be the reason WHY a level 50 MIGHT want to GO BACK to a LOWER dungeon (caps for keywords).

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

why should they do the r30 dungeon when they have 50s and dont need r30 gear?
its the samer arguement, CUZ THEY CAN

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Then why not give us cheat codes that give us infinite HP? I'm sure there are plenty of people that want to play the game that way. It doesn't make a difference to people who don't want infinite HP, right?

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Originally Posted by Richard

No one can be this dumb. I just refuse to believe that you cannot be trolling. Capping a dungeon at x level does not hurt anyone below are at that specific level. If you are R50 and could CARE LESS about mid content then don't do it.

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no, im going off what you said

you said you dont care how i play
i want to go through the dungeon at r50, you want to go through it at 30

you are able to go through it at 30, with how they have it now, problem solved right?
why should the fact i can go through it at 50 matter at all, im not affecting your game by doing it
im not forcing myself into your party
i am not affecting you in any way shape or form

so why should i be forced to play your way ? sounds alike like you care to me

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Then why not give us cheat codes that give us infinite HP? I'm sure there are plenty of people that want to play the game that way. It doesn't make a difference to people who don't want infinite HP, right?

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there is a different between cheating and playing the game above the designed levels
one is legal, the other isnt

this isnt about illegal play

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Originally Posted by EgweneALvere

No I am not new to MMO's I just know how to say no if I need/want to.

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Off topic, just wanna say Yay for you WoT name ^^

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

no, im going off what you said

you said you dont care how i play
i want to go through the dungeon at r50, you want to go through it at 30

you are able to go through it at 30, with how they have it now, problem solved right?
why should the fact i can go through it at 50 matter at all, im not affecting your game by doing it
im not forcing myself into your party
i am not affecting you in any way shape or form

so why should i be forced to play your way ? sounds alike like you care to me

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I gave the suggestion of making it a voluntary level cap for people who actually care for a challenge or for people who just want to play baby games.

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Originally Posted by Richard

And what if people WANT to do a challenging R30 dungeon? Again you're tunnelvisioning.

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Then they enter the dungeon in their R30 job and it will be challenging.

"But I don't have a R30 job anymore!"

In this case, why should you care if the dungeon has a cap or not? In fact, not having the cap is actually good for you, you will still be able to at the very least take a look at the dungeon and get some of it's rewards, even if they are useless.

Also, how exactly having a cap increases the challenge for the dungeon?

"Oh..you cannot ask your R50 friend to steamroll it"

FUN FACT:

Anyone calling out their R50 friend do clear the dungeon is NOT wanting a challenge at all.

One problem here is that there is a difference of opinions. The bigger problem is that you all think your opinions (capped) are more important than ours (uncapped), when really, the only opinion that matters here is that of the Devs (uncapped).

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

ok then if its about what YOU do in the game, why do YOU care what I do in the game?

if thats truewly how you feel, then you shouldnt care if i go through it on my 50

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We care because the ability for you to do so ruins game balance for the entire game.

Disappointed in this decision. No sense of challenge if a group of 50s can run through zone and find out all the strategies for pulls/etc without fear of death. Plus, it will reduce the number of people who will actually want to go through the content at level 25 rank. Why bother when you can have an LS mate do it or just pay someone to run you through?

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

We care because the ability for you to do so ruins game balance for the entire game.

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Opinion does not equal fact.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Then they enter the dungeon in their R30 job and it will be challenging.

"But I don't have a R30 job anymore!"

In this case, why should you care if the dungeon has a cap or not? In fact, not having the cap is actually good for you, you will still be able to at the very least take a look at the dungeon and get some of it's rewards, even if they are useless.

Also, how exactly having a cap increases the challenge for the dungeon?

"Oh..you cannot ask your R50 friend to steamroll it"

FUN FACT:

Anyone calling out their R50 friend do clear the dungeon is NOT wanting a challenge at all.

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I care because I don't want to coast through the game? I want a challenge? The four R30's will have a much harder time than the four R50's in the dungeon that is how it makes it more challenging. On personal preference I wouldnt steamroll it or have a friend do it either. If I want a casual baby game I'll go play WoW.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

there is a different between cheating and playing the game above the designed levels
one is legal, the other isnt

this isnt about illegal play

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Cheat codes, traditionally, are put into the game by the programmers themselves. They are features already included in the game, and therefore not illegal. But thank you for missing my point.

You say we're angry because the R30 dungeon isn't endgame content. I think you're arguing because level caps would mean you wouldn't be able to show off your string of R50 classes by bulldozing a dungeon with your e-peen.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

One problem here is that there is a difference of opinions. The bigger problem is that you all think your opinions (capped) are more important than ours (uncapped), when really, the only opinion that matters here is that of the Devs (uncapped).

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And the problem you are having is not completely understanding our point. If they can set voluntary scaling on leves, why can't they implement voluntary level caps on the lower rank dungeons. If you want to take the easy way out and steamroll though at 50 or hold some noobs hand through it, knock yourself out. But for those of us that want more of a challenge and think it would make it more worthwhile and true FF experience, then let us scale our ranks on our preferred jobs.

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Originally Posted by Richard

The right way to do things is to Scale down a R.50 to R.30 if they want to do a R.30 instance instead of allowing them to retain all their abilities/gear that is above R.30. This gives the dungeon a challenge and meaning to people above R.30. It doesn't hurt the mid content players but expands the content to even higher level players.

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This is something I agree with

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

One problem here is that there is a difference of opinions. The bigger problem is that you all think your opinions (capped) are more important than ours (uncapped), when really, the only opinion that matters here is that of the Devs (uncapped).

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I asked for a compromise with a voluntary level cap option. The opinions of the Dev Team for the last 2-3 years in designing this game is why its still F2P. The Dev's care about the community opinion more than you think. I.E. Auto Attack and Instanced Dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Richard

I gave the suggestion of making it a voluntary level cap for people who actually care for a challenge or for people who just want to play baby games.

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voluntary level cap is the same as putting the difficulty slider on it

if it was a choice its not a bad thing
but people dont want a choice, they want to force us to play it at r30(go read alot of other peoples posts, especialy the ones telling me that a difficulty slider is unacceptable cuz people wont use it)
by the same reasoning, why make it voluntary when people obviously wont use it


there are 2 big concerns here with people wanting a cap

1) Its not about what they do, they care what others do, they dont want others to get stuff easier then they do, so everyone else must be forced to play it how they want(forced cap)

2) Some people are afraid that without a cap, no one will want to do the dungeon at the designed level. Just because people have 50s, they wont use a lower job to do it at all..



in case 1, its just people who obviously care too much about what other people do, their opinion is pretty invalid as far as im concerned, its not about their enjoyment, its about them forcing their will on others

in case 2, its a valid concern, although i think the fact is, people put way too little faith in other peoples abilities to want to do it at the lower levels if they are asked to, or advertised thats how they want to do it.



In my case, Will I do it with my rank 50? hell yeah I will

If someone is advertising they want to do it around r30, and dont want 50s? well if i want to go, i can jump on my 33 gladiator and go with them(and i wont complain, they form the group, they want to do it without 50s, i can respect that)

but should I be forced to play it at only rank 30? no i should not

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Cheat codes, traditionally, are put into the game by the programmers themselves. They are features already included in the game, and therefore not illegal. But thank you for missing my point.

You say we're angry because the R30 dungeon isn't endgame content. I think you're arguing because level caps would mean you wouldn't be able to show off your string of R50 classes by bulldozing a dungeon with your e-peen.

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You want to show off by running through a dungeon at r30. Vedis wants to show off by running it at r50. Wow. I don't see much of a difference here.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

You want to show off by running through a dungeon at r30. Vedis wants to show off by running it at r50. Wow. I don't see much of a difference here.

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i dont want to show off anything, im still weariong mostly canvas and velveteen rags on all my classes at 50 lol

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Originally Posted by Ogun_Riastradh

And the problem you are having is not completely understanding our point. If they can set voluntary scaling on leves, why can't they implement voluntary level caps on the lower rank dungeons. If you want to take the easy way out and steamroll though at 50 or hold some noobs hand through it, knock yourself out. But for those of us that want more of a challenge and think would like to make it more worthwhile and true FF experience, then let us scale our ranks on our preferred jobs.

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I don't have a problem with an optional cap, but I am not arguing that. I am arguing against a mandatory cap, which is what Rentahamster wants.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

i dont want to show off anything, im still weariong mostly canvas and velveteen rags on all my classes at 50 lol

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I was just using it as an example to show how ridiculous the arguments are getting! lol

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

You want to show off by running through a dungeon at r30. Vedis wants to show off by running it at r50. Wow. I don't see much of a difference here.

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I wish I could think of a way to explain to you how nonsensical this statement is in a way you would understand.

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Originally Posted by trinta

I can't tell if we're agreeing or not at this point, heheh.

The impression I get from the "level cap" crowd is that the challenge is itself a reward. I'm not sure that offering better rewards for level-sync parties would be fair to parties that are composed entirely of legitimate R25 classes.

I have no problem with people who want to experience the content at-level, but I do take issue with the insistence that everyone should be forced to.

Myself, I have days where I want the challenge, and days when I want the streamroll. Maybe that's why having an optional level sync seems the ideal solution for me.

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I am in agreement with the cap, but more importantly an optional cap. So you can have your challenge if you want or not but doing it under cap would bring greater rewards so there is actually a reason to do it. Yes the challenge itself is good, but you won't get anyone to do it the harder way if there is no candy at the end, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

voluntary level cap is the same as putting the difficulty slider on it

if it was a choice its not a bad thing
but people dont want a choice, they want to force us to play it at r30(go read alot of other peoples posts, especialy the ones telling me that a difficulty slider is unacceptable cuz people wont use it)
by the same reasoning, why make it voluntary when people obviously wont use it


there are 2 big concerns here with people wanting a cap

1) Its not about what they do, they care what others do, they dont want others to get stuff easier then they do, so everyone else must be forced to play it how they want(forced cap)

2) Some people are afraid that without a cap, no one will want to do the dungeon at the designed level. Just because people have 50s, they wont use a lower job to do it at all..



in case 1, its just people who obviously care too much about what other people do, their opinion is pretty invalid as far as im concerned, its not about their enjoyment, its about them forcing their will on others

in case 2, its a valid concern, although i think the fact is, people put way too little faith in other peoples abilities to want to do it at the lower levels if they are asked to, or advertised thats how they want to do it.



In my case, Will I do it with my rank 50? hell yeah I will

If someone is advertising they want to do it around r30, and dont want 50s? well if i want to go, i can jump on my 33 gladiator and go with them(and i wont complain, they form the group, they want to do it without 50s, i can respect that)

but should I be forced to play it at only rank 30? no i should not

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We can both agree that Lv.50 players should not be *forced* to play at Lv.30 and that Lv.50 players who WANT to play at Lv.30 should not be *forced* to play at Lv.50.

Difficulty slider works perfectly in WoW and it works perfectly in leves. I think you underestimate what people will compromise with. If it caters to both arguments then it should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

I am in agreement with the cap, but more importantly an optional cap. So you can have your challenge if you want or not but doing it under cap would bring greater rewards so there is actually a reason to do it. Yes the challenge itself is good, but you won't get anyone to do it the harder way if there is no candy at the end, that's for sure.

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Yes. An optional cap would be perfectly fine as long as the rewards scaled to the amount of effort you did.

i.e.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 30 character, you get really good loot rewards.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character, you get normal stuff.

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Originally Posted by Richard

We can both agree that Lv.50 players should not be *forced* to play at Lv.30 and that Lv.50 players who WANT to play at Lv.30 should not be *forced* to play at Lv.50.

Difficulty slider works perfectly in WoW and it works perfectly in leves. I think you underestimate what people will compromise with. If it caters to both arguments then it should be fine.

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im not the one who says people wont use it(go look at some of the replies to my posts, its the pro cap people who say a slider wont work and people have to be forced into the challenge or it wont be any)


also, my biggest arguement for a slider, and not a cap, is that a slider is ALREADY CODED into the game and will take less work to implement into this then a level capping feature(which isnt in the game at all yet)

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Yes. An optional cap would be perfectly fine as long as the rewards scaled to the amount of effort you did.

i.e.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 30 character, you get really good loot rewards.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character, you get normal stuff.

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no
everyone who runs it should have an equal chance at equal rewards, period


wasnt this discusses MANY months ago in all the casual vs hardcore stuff? how quickly we forgot that

I dont understand any of that. You can make 1-25 very fast on leves. Why you need content even for lower ranks. pf. Nonsense, and annoyance.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Yes. An optional cap would be perfectly fine as long as the rewards scaled to the amount of effort you did.

i.e.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 30 character, you get really good loot rewards.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character, you get normal stuff.

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Absolutely. There would have to be some sort of incentive besides "challenge" for this option to be in any way effective for all players.