(Suggestion) Removing the aggroe icon for monsters.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the future of the aggressive icon straight from the development team! Without further ado here's is what Hiroshi Minagawa, the User Interface lead, had to say!

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LOL, this is way better than i expected.

- Thank You! ^.^)b

lmao!

Its much easier to spot out bugs and such in the threads that have the most replies. Otherwise, all other threads that don't have much are basically saying that it isn't as important. So yes, apparently this one is the biggest issue with the UI.

Glad they are at least putting in a toggle feature. I don't really see how showing the mobs level is necessary though, the colored icons work just fine. You just need to add in another color for the too weak mobs.

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Originally Posted by Joji

I don't like the icon showing which monsters who are able to attack you.
Its meant to be hard and seeing these icons from far away takes away some of the fun exploring.
If lets say you are walking around and a big eft is lurking in the bushes and you dont see him until he kills you, its part of the way things work in Eorzea.
It makes you more focused on whats happening on youre screen when youre mining or whatever you do.

So i hope im not the only one feeling this way, please remove those silly cheesy looking icons.

PS: Love that they finally have a forum here. Go SE!!!

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Quote, quote, quote!

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Originally Posted by Nuru

lmao!

Its much easier to spot out bugs and such in the threads that have the most replies. Otherwise, all other threads that don't have much are basically saying that it isn't as important. So yes, apparently this one is the biggest issue with the UI.

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Unless you place a bug in the In-Game bugs forum and make the title start with [Bug]. Then it gets seen quite easily lol.

Glad you can toggle it and the showing of mob levels is a plus in my opinion.

I prefer it like this it's annoying walking round minding your own buisness and then randomly getting attacked without knowing its an aggro monster, then when they introduce the icon it's much better now because you can get to where your going by sneaking around these enemys.

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Originally Posted by Jonas

I prefer it like this it's annoying walking round minding your own buisness and then randomly getting attacked without knowing its an aggro monster, then when they introduce the icon it's much better now because you can get to where your going by sneaking around these enemys.

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It is so much funner not knowing the dangers of travel! ^^

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Originally Posted by Jonas

I prefer it like this it's annoying walking round minding your own buisness and then randomly getting attacked without knowing its an aggro monster, then when they introduce the icon it's much better now because you can get to where your going by sneaking around these enemys.

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it' annoying walking around and see a mob that says it aggros then i can walk up, sit down, and doze off and it never moves. thank goodness they are adding a toggle option on this. if someone wants boring go for it, but i enjoy the adventure and the not knowing.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the future of the aggressive icon straight from the development team! Without further ado here's is what Hiroshi Minagawa, the User Interface lead, had to say!

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Thank for this good news. I will be happy to hide his icon.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the future of the aggressive icon straight from the development team! Without further ado here's is what Hiroshi Minagawa, the User Interface lead, had to say!

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Awesome! It's also good to see that the enemy's will get levels also :D I was hoping for that to come and it finally will do thank you :)

Toggle: Expected
Enemy level: Beyond expectations

Pretty cool all in all. Glad to see it.

So much for exploration and discovery. I'd prefer this only be neccessary for monsters that are rank 1-30. I just cant stand the hand holding the development team is doing. I guess I'm the "rare" type that likes a challenge..

Wow, I'm really excited for the change. Toggle it on for party play and toggle it off for solo play. This is awesome.

I just don't see why people would whine about the aggro icon. It doesn't take very long to figure out what aggros (Or at later ranks, what few things don't), and the icon's not that big of a deal (Though I wouldn't be opposed to them shrinking it a little...). It really doesn't change the "difficulty"... When you're trying to get through a narrow area with high-rank enemies, seeing that icon isn't going to make it any "easier." :x

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Originally Posted by Neasa

I just don't see why people would whine about the aggro icon. It doesn't take very long to figure out what aggros (Or at later ranks, what few things don't), and the icon's not that big of a deal (Though I wouldn't be opposed to them shrinking it a little...). It really doesn't change the "difficulty"... When you're trying to get through a narrow area with high-rank enemies, seeing that icon isn't going to make it any "easier." :x

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It's just kinda really huge right now. I wouldn't mind if it were somewhat like WoW in that any aggroing mob would have a similar icon whenever you'd target it.

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Originally Posted by Minagawa

for patch 1.17 we are working on . . . displaying the enemy’s level.

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YES.

I've written multiple times why we need this and why it's much a much better system than the confusing and glitchy con system we have now.

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

It's just kinda really huge right now. I wouldn't mind if it were somewhat like WoW in that any aggroing mob would have a similar icon whenever you'd target it.

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Yea that's what bothers me as well. I think it's good to have more information in game. It's just so big, red and in your face. It also does not fit into the UI at all, and is even more confusing than informative at times...

Fantastic! I'm so glad they're not taking the icon away as I like having an aggro indicator. And the toggle should make everyone happy.

And what a bonus to hear they're working on displaying the enemy's level!

Thumbs up!

Hello everyone! We have more details that further flesh out the design ideas behind the current UI change and tidbits on what the future will bring. Without further ado, here is a new comment from UI lead, Hiroshi Minagawa.

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Hey everyone! Thanks for the huge amount of feedback!

I would like to explain two things.
The first is about the design choice regarding having an aggressive icon at all and the second is in regards to our plans to integrate an ON/OFF toggle for displayed UI elements.

First, as to the reason why we added the aggressive monster icon, for the upcoming battle fixes, we decided to display addition information necessary for battle strategy.

There are many aspects related to the upcoming battle fixes, but one example of how we are making adjustments that lead to more enjoyable gameplay is by showing information such as the strength of field monsters (their level), whether or not they are aggressive, and whether or not they will link. With this new information, players can make a decision whether they wish to fight these types of enemies and it also allows them to plan crowd control out ahead of time.

Due to the fact that a quick fix for this is quite difficult, we have been making adjustments in stages. We have discussions with Yoshida and the battle team about what kind of info should be shown and what should be masked and once we make a decision we have been implementing them.

The current aggressive icon and the upcoming enemy level display are only one part of the current stage of edits.
　
Next on the agenda is the ON/OFF display toggle.

The aggressive icon that was recently implemented was a bit of information we wanted players to be able to check easily that fits hand-in-hand with the future battle plans, and thus we released it as a full-time display feature. Originally we thought that the icon wasn’t something that needed to be easily turned on/off, but after seeing the current reactions and hearing all of your feedback, after long consideration we have decided to make it possible to toggle the display. We will also continue to make adjustments to display toggling and display methods for the information displays we have planned for the future.

I apologize for not going into more detail earlier, but hopefully now you can better see our reasoning for the implementation.

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for patch 1.17 we are working on making the icon smaller as well as displaying the enemy’s level.

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This is good news. I would really like to know the monsters' level.

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The current aggressive icon and the upcoming enemy level display are only one part of the current stage of edits.

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To me this is the most important thing to keep in mind, no matter where they go with the system in the coming months. Until they declare "This is it, we are finished with serious changes" then everything we get will be part of Something Bigger. I don't mind the aggro icon at all, but I do look forward to being able to see the level, even if just so I know what can be easier avoided as a Botanist (Is it many levels above me, or only a couple for example) as well as the challenge of individual mobs in a group (Green coloured group, but individual beasts can kill people in single hits at times currently!)

Since we're going to have icons for Aggressive mobs, linked mobs, and the levels of each.. I hope the display toggles for each of them are independent of one-another.

I might want to see the level, but not the icon.

Then again, I would be fine with the icon if it scaled properly when seeing it from a distance.

Excellent decision here. I stand by my opinion that mobs that aggro NEED to have some sort of indication that they do aggro. Although I have a good understanding on what does and doesn't aggro by now, it is nice for new players who get frustrated when they die not knowing that information.

Implementing a toggle is easily the best way to appease both sides, and no one can be upset by this change. Personally i'll have it off, but the major thing here is we have a choice! Also good on them for fixing the size of the indicator, that is really the only thing I had a problem with.

Oh and forgot to comment on them adding the actual levels, that is cool with me, I was fine with the color indicator but this will work as well.

Based off of the dev response it seems they are going to add some serious tactical battles. Glad to know the icon and the rest of package is actually helping towards making the game more challenging with future content.

I'm sorry but personally I'm not keen to having all this information spoon-fed to me. It's part of the imersion of the game to find out and know what agros without needing a red-dot beside it "togleable or not" what links, might as well tell us how it agros and when it's going to hit it's next movement cycle just so I'm not caught off guard.

Can anyone tell me what Element that Earth elemental is?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Hello everyone! We have more details that further flesh out the design ideas behind the current UI change and tidbits on what the future will bring. Without further ado, here is a new comment from UI lead, Hiroshi Minagawa.

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I understand the direction that these changes are heading but my personal thoughts on the matter are that getting to know if enemies aggro or not is a part of the game you are meant to figure out. Veterans in areas know where every enemy spawns and if it aggros while new comers have to figure it out. To me that was all part of the fun. At least that's my opinion..

I'm happy with what he had to say, with what is in the plans and all. I really like having the ability to toggle the aggro icon. I hope that they go through and give us the ability to toggle the new elements to the UI they plan on adding too. I prefer to figure out how the monsters behave, so being able to toggle the icon of is a really good thing for me.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I'm sorry but personally I'm not keen to having all this information spoon-fed to me. It's part of the imersion of the game to find out and know what agros without needing a red-dot beside it "togleable or not" what links, might as well tell us how it agros and when it's going to hit it's next movement cycle just so I'm not caught off guard.

Can anyone tell me what Element that Earth elemental is?

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To tell you the truth when i read they going to add Show "Level,Link,and if they attack you" Make me think -.- you joking right. in FFXI it was fun you like ok let's see would this attack you? .... oh &%@! they do run!!!! now it's like oh ok this attack this links. In ffxi when you play long enough you knew by memory they link,attack you and what level they where.

But i guess this new gen is more into showing more info/easy mode so i guess i have to get use to it and enjoy whatever they give for hardcore players.

While most players may not feel the need to be told what aggro's it still helps with more inexperienced players who get frustated easily and especially in party situations.

From past experiences in FFXI you'll sometimes run across a player or two that holds up the party because they got aggro from something they had no knowledge about. They die, homepoint, and have to run back or you have to send out a raise for them. Even in Abyssea parties this type of stuff happens where some people have no clue and either die, ask about the potential aggro, or you have to go guide them safely to camp.

Oh yeah and on the subject of a "link" icon. Who remembers good old low level parties and your recently invited puller linking everything cause he/she didn't know they did? Then the party disbands after the 2nd wipe... (Talking about the poor ones. Not having a go at the good pullers out there who know what they are doing).

The issue then splits 2 ways:

With newer players who get aggro and die, they can possibly become annoyed and log. This can result in the end of a party if there's noone available to rep. The player may even possibly quit the game which while veteran players may scoff at and say they are better off playing WoW: it's still a lost subscription to SE = bad.

And with the more experienced players, they too can cause the end of a party as a good number won't put up with some newbie getting themselves and/or the party killed. They'll just find it a waste of their time and leave.

Anyway if you feel you don't need the aggro icon and you can learn what aggro's by yourself thats fine. If that's the case then the aggro icon was clearly not meant for you and the planned toggle feature will be handy. As for other players than just yourself: it's up to them if they feel they need it or not.

Toggle option does sound fine though it'd still be nice to also have the info display only when a mob is targetted. Another option I like which I have seen is having the info display only when you get close enough to a mob.

Two other things I'd like to see is having agressive mobs show as another colour on the minimap like the classic red dot. And secondly it would be nice to have a better visual method of showing that you have aggro'd a mob. Usually the first sign you get is suddenly falling to the ground with "mob hits you for xxxx damage" in the chatlog.

Having a better warning that a mob has been aggro'd would help reaction time to either run away or prepare to fight. Rather than there stand clueless and get pummeled. It may ruin the immersion for some players though so maybe have it built into the toggleable aggro icon so it has an idle and active state. Like have the aggro icon yellow as "caution" and turn red if you aggro.

out of all the things wrong with this game we got the dev team working on a stupid icon!?? i do not hate SE to much anymore for making a bad game i hate all you people bitching all the time.

I am in favor of anything that prevents people from rage-quitting, which I myself am guilty of doing many times in FFXI. I am all for any extra info that the game can provide itself that isn't intrusive to my whole immersion thing.

Seriously though, what's the problem? People(not everyone, just people) are going to be looking for this information outside of the game anyway. Why not just save them the time of having to go to an external site and just give the information in game? There's nothing that says this is some kind of "easy mode". Mobs aren't going to magically become easier.

I had previously made a post that could be useful to include here:

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RE:Bring back "Too weak to be worthwhile"

In FFXI, I found it very useful to determine the worthiness of fighting monsters for sp, by their "con". easy prey would give a basic expectation of sp on an easy mob, but was not considered too low to be considered a "trash mob". Too weak to be Worthwhile was used on monsters that were just that, a trash mob.

I suggest we add a new tier for monsters below blue currently in game. It can be gray, to indicate one will likely earn less than ~60-100 sp a kill

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Hello everyone! We have more details that further flesh out the design ideas behind the current UI change and tidbits on what the future will bring. Without further ado, here is a new comment from UI lead, Hiroshi Minagawa.

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Its too bad there are too many people that are too blind to notice the giant "I wanna kill you" icon anyways... Various people I have partied with just run into a horde of hostile monsters during behests or levequests anyways, then the thaum aoe'd them all, and the archer still single target the enemy that wasn't claimed.... etc etc.

How about a "scan" skill, juste like there is in many FF games? No agro icon nor lvl indicated (as it seems the dev are talking about currently), but once you use the skill on the mob, you have the relevent information (+elemental strength or hp/mp even).

Great news, displaying the enemy level is a much better idea than the current con icon.

It seems like we're going to get some more repositioning of monsters and that the future content is going to have longer battles and more of them. It seems like this is all relating to the instances that are going to come sometime.

FFXII had a nice target and target information interface :)

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I'm sorry but personally I'm not keen to having all this information spoon-fed to me. It's part of the imersion of the game to find out and know what agros without needing a red-dot beside it "togleable or not" what links, might as well tell us how it agros and when it's going to hit it's next movement cycle just so I'm not caught off guard.

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/nod

Actually, I think the icon works against us. It's way too easy to just look for the big red icons, ignoring the mobs themselves.

Relying on *player knowledge* to avoid aggro does a lot to pull us into the game.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I'm sorry but personally I'm not keen to having all this information spoon-fed to me. It's part of the imersion of the game to find out and know what agros without needing a red-dot beside it "togleable or not" what links, might as well tell us how it agros and when it's going to hit it's next movement cycle just so I'm not caught off guard.

Can anyone tell me what Element that Earth elemental is?

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Then just turn off the information....jesus what the hell is so hard about that? They're giving us a choice, if anything this should make you happier considering now you have no option to turn off the gigantic red aggro icon. You can keep your immersion and a new player isn't getting killed without knowing that information....EVERY ONE WINS.

I think there is one issue I have with providing all this information, and I believe its important. First, when you engage a new monster (prior to the aggro icon addition), the only source of information you were able to gather was from the model of the monster and it's behavior. Not all information is easily gathered this way, but it is still possible. For example, a new monster may look real nasty, like a hog or a flan, the angry faces kind of make it obvious. Then, theres the idle animations, are they violent and aggressive?

Now, when we add these features, that remove the need to use the model themselves, and instead shift this information on to UI features that take away from the atmosphere, the outcome is players will rather than look at the very nice models, will instead look at the UI widgets for their information.


Here's the point of this post:

Where do we see the future of MMO's going in relation to the collection of monster information.

Do we see MMO's 10 years from now still supplying 2 dimensional icons on the screen to show a monster's specific attributes?
Or

Do we see MMO's 10 years from now breathe more life into their monsters and their games by making monsters relay this information through behavior/animations or through the design of the models.


If the latter seems more interesting and more likely to be the way of 'next-gen' games. Square-Enix will either be a company that pushes the envelope towards this goal, or one of the MANY companies that resorts to old mechanics for 'safety'.


That said, I do welcome the toggling option, but I realize that by offering the option in the first place, there will be little or no work done to improve the interesting behaviors of the monsters themselves prior to engaging.