The problem with allowing Turn 2 Rage strat

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Originally Posted by Allyra

My static does it. I switch from brd to whm, and one of our tank switches to brd. Since it is a static, no one gets screwed on gear either as we just do greed on the brd/tank drops.


Bathroom break during t2 or bathroom break before doing t4, makes no difference to me.

And yes, we used to do t2 just fine the normal way (only took two tries to beat it the first time we were in there). But hey if we can take a break, and have fun chewing the fat on vent with each other, we'll do it.

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I would rather finish t1-t5 in under a hour then take a break personally.

I hate the enrage mechanic but if you're gonna complain about it... why aren't you complaining about turn3? I'm pretty sure Square didn't intend for everyone to skip mobs and keep jumping all over the map... but everyone does it anyway.

Here's a thought.

Fix turn 3 so mobs have to be killed before teleport works, add a loot coffer at the end to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

I would rather finish t1-t5 in under a hour then take a break personally.

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Then do it. I don't care which strat people use. But to assume a bubble of "wasting everyone's time" is a case on case basis.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The development team is aware of the strategy that is being used for the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 2 against ADS and they do not consider it to be an exploit. There are currently no plans to make any adjustments.

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I actually think that the fight should be fixed. If not, then there is no meaning to the part with the clicks, yes? It should probably be made such that an explosion would occur if the fight is not completed properly in the set amount of time. Though it's not an exploit but it does seem to be a broken mechanic to the fight?

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Originally Posted by Jyskal

I actually think that the fight should be fixed. If not, then there is no meaning to the part with the clicks, yes? It should probably be made such that an explosion would occur if the fight is not completed properly in the set amount of time. Though it's not an exploit but it does seem to be a broken mechanic to the fight?

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It isn't broken. The ticks are there to warn you that ADS will commence his sequence when the timer runs out, which will wipe any group who are not prepared for it; if you're going with the Allagan Rot strategy then his 'enrage' will likely wipe you when it starts.

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Originally Posted by Kiln

If your DRG is pulling equal DPS to a WAR outside of defiance (even while wearing DPS gear), you may wanna have them look into their rotation. Any WAR won't keep up with a DRG that understands their job and utilizes proper rotation.

Anyway, back on topic. Even though SE has stated isn't not an exploit, the mechanics teach you valuable game skills. By using the enrage method, you're only cheating yourself out of learning. The mechanics will always be recycled at some date and bite you in the butt down the road. I guess I'd rather learn and master them now, then later. To each his own.

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You underestimate WAR dps. I do 190+ through T2.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

It isn't broken. The ticks are there to warn you that ADS will commence his sequence when the timer runs out, which will wipe any group who are not prepared for it; if you're going with the Allagan Rot strategy then his 'enrage' will likely wipe you when it starts.

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Yeah, but I don't see how with this strategy, there is any need for the Allagan Rot mechanic anymore. Probably the enraged mode should be buffed up or changed to be less forgiving. Otherwise Turn 1 - Turn 4 is just like a walk in the park? Or so to speak.

The imbalance of jobs is LOL worthy. No serious raiding FC is going to recruit 1 tank instead of 2 for a BC group because of 1 event. Unless they are idiots.

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Originally Posted by Jyskal

Yeah, but I don't see how with this strategy, there is any need for the Allagan Rot mechanic anymore. Otherwise Turn 1 - Turn 4 is just like a walk in the park? Or so to speak.

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Let's not kid ourselves into thinking Coil is harder than it actually is. Most Free Companies have 1-4 on farm and more and more groups are farming Turn 5 aswel now; with or without Allagan Rot, Turn 2 is still easy. You can also remove Allagan Rot from the fight by simply taking out the bottom node, the Quarantine node, is it? In actual fact you could remove all of his abilities by killing all of the nodes if you liked; would that too be considered an exploit or a broken mechanic? You could even eat the High Voltage with the Haste buff, since you'd have nothing else to dodge.

I see the enrage method as either a strategy for PuG, groups without voice communication or groups who want a stress free ride into Turns 3-4.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

The imbalance of jobs is LOL worthy. No serious raiding FC is going to recruit 1 tank instead of 2 for a BC group because of 1 event. Unless they are idiots.

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Except for the fact that each and every turn can be done with 1 tank, including T5.

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Originally Posted by SirGazuntai

Except for the fact that each and every turn can be done with 1 tank, including T5.

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Turn 3 can even be done with no tanks. Haha.

I really don't see how doing the enrage method means you aren't cut out to do turn 4, since t4 doesn't use any of the same mechanics. It's not like turn 4 has a rot, which as i see it is he only part of t2 that really takes any coordination other than high voltage which isn't a very complex one to begin with, and people are not use to passing it. Turn 4 has its own set of mechanics completely different than 2. Would it be an exploit if you just did turn 1, 3, and 4 every week and never even attempted turn 2? I mean unless you were literally carried through the whole end game, t4 shouldn't pose too much a problem skill wise, its not a very complex fight.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

Turn 3 can even be done with no tanks. Haha.

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We do T3 with 7 tanks.

(And I still manage to die!)

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Originally Posted by SirGazuntai

Except for the fact that each and every turn can be done with 1 tank, including T5.

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Once your geared sure but no new team to BC is going to 1 tank the instance. He is suggesting that FCs are being formed with the idea that they are only recruiting 1 tank because a single event can be done with 1 at the entry level gear.

Few days ago I heard someone asking for a WHM to join their 3-heal T2 enrage run. Since they've been waiting forever, I asked, out of curiosity, "what are you gonna do with your 3-heal party after you beat T2?"

"Make one of the healers leave."

Oh. Right. I see. Is there any BC-ready WHM willing to join that knowing they could get dumped after that, leaving them to find a T3-5 party again on their own?

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Few days ago I heard someone asking for a WHM to join their 3-heal T2 enrage run. Since they've been waiting forever, I asked, out of curiosity, "what are you gonna do with your 3-heal party after you beat T2?"

"Make one of the healers leave."

Oh. Right. I see. Is there any BC-ready WHM willing to join that knowing they could get dumped after that, leaving them to find a T3-5 party again on their own?

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I'm sure its not that hard especially depending on what day of the week it is. By saturday or sunday night it's probably extremely likely a whm would do it. Some players only play 2-3 days a week and take what they can get.

Too many people assuming we all only play one Job. You could go healer for Turn 2 then something else for 3-4.

You don't even need a geared healer to help out with the enrage tactic; three so-so healers, two geared healers or a single i90 WHM is enough.

I just can't believe people are defending this "strategy" and that the devs have designed the fight with such faulty mechanics.

It would be the same if you could just hold Twintania in phase 1 until rage timer, simply tossing a regen on tank and a couple of cures after every DS, then when the timer hits 0 you'd simply kill her while healing through AoEs... That would not be a strategy either, that would be using bad battle design to skip the actual battle while still getting the rewards.

Another one of these threads again?

Not sure why this method is bothering people so much.

To each their own is what i say.

Another pointless thread about nothing.

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Originally Posted by Rightchaus

You're barking up the wrong tree. You can thank people selling titan/relic wins. The people selling coil and who will sell Ex primals.

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I agree. They needed something like a solo encounter with fight mechanics on the level of Titan hm to properly gate coil. Being able to run someone through an encounter to the point where they don't need to do anything really isn't helpful.

But it really isn't the problem either. most of the people in coil were not run through Titan hm while twiddling their fingers. Only a small portion of the community could ever afford the payed Titan wins or have a group willing to run them through easy mode.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Few days ago I heard someone asking for a WHM to join their 3-heal T2 enrage run. Since they've been waiting forever, I asked, out of curiosity, "what are you gonna do with your 3-heal party after you beat T2?"

"Make one of the healers leave."

Oh. Right. I see. Is there any BC-ready WHM willing to join that knowing they could get dumped after that, leaving them to find a T3-5 party again on their own?

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You can do the enrage strat with two healers. Then you bring a fifth DPS instead!

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Originally Posted by Taika

I just can't believe people are defending this "strategy" and that the devs have designed the fight with such faulty mechanics.

It would be the same if you could just hold Twintania in phase 1 until rage timer, simply tossing a regen on tank and a couple of cures after every DS, then when the timer hits 0 you'd simply kill her while healing through AoEs... That would not be a strategy either, that would be using bad battle design to skip the actual battle while still getting the rewards.

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Get over it already....

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Originally Posted by Lirrenure

TL : DR only pugs use enrage.

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Originally Posted by Mooserocka33

Actually the people in static parties are not doing it this way. If they do they are screwing themselves for t4 or having to kick someone. It's good for using in a pug just to get it over with.

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We do it this way in my static. All of our members have at least two level 50 classes at around i75 or better (main classes being above i80, secondary at least i70 before we let them into Coil) and we just swap people around as needed for each turn. We hadn't tried T4 since the patch due to holidays, but we can consistently get to the final phase. I don't feel like we're screwed out of anything. That being said, I told my group that in February we're going to start doing the fight with Rot since I feel like we need to work on more coordination in preparation for other fights.

A good Idea, Serneum. Twintania indeed does require precision teamwork. I've found that A good practice for her is also extreme titan.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I just can't believe people are defending this "strategy" and that the devs have designed the fight with such faulty mechanics.

It would be the same if you could just hold Twintania in phase 1 until rage timer, simply tossing a regen on tank and a couple of cures after every DS, then when the timer hits 0 you'd simply kill her while healing through AoEs... That would not be a strategy either, that would be using bad battle design to skip the actual battle while still getting the rewards.

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Or it's like skipping all the mobs in turn three to ignore all their mechanics...but we don't want that changed now do we? ;)

My static does this with this set up ( all of us are i lvl 77 or higher) : bard x2 ( only cause our smn left for irl issues so we didn't always have two) whm x2 , sch, Monk , war ( our war fights without defiance till he lvls drg he also does this from the start with the mini bosses.) , pld.

we are fortunate that our static blm also has whm unlocked and geared exponentially well. ( our tank does now too but not as geared) I would not look for a straight healer but a dps class that had heals unlocked because to ask for straight heals is down right cruel and you may never find someone willing. we usually have to wait around 5 clicks before we engage ads and the fight is over in two min after enrage. if we had to pug someone i would just go smn and recruit a healer. much easier that way then i could go whm or sch for that fight. we also one shot t4 and are working on t5 but thats just saying we do it this way cause we can.

We know how to deal with rot but when it goes so much quicker why bother? I look at enrage more as a challenge/gear check. low dps ...ya'll are dying, bad heals yall are dying, under geared tank ya'll are dying bad use of cd's... you get the picture. ... there is no way around that. plain and simple much easier to carry fail ppl in the reg way... enrage strat makes the wiping far more probable/likely than winning. I say this because our new recruit bard was terrified of enrage strat talking about how bad it is when the pugs they been in do try to attempt it.

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Originally Posted by Aiyamai

I look at enrage more as a challenge/gear check. low dps ...ya'll are dying, bad heals yall are dying, under geared tank ya'll are dying bad use of cd's... you get the picture. ... there is no way around that. plain and simple much easier to carry fail ppl in the reg way... enrage strat makes the wiping far more probable/likely than winning.

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All I have to say is LOL at that. In no way is enrage harder than the regular way. Granted, the regular way isn't extremely hard either, but enrage mode is not challenging in any way or a gear check. Even low geared DPS can do it just fine if they have even a semblance of what their rotation should be. And I'm not sure how healers can be bad considering all you do is spam medica / medica II and succor every 3-4 seconds. Or if you're going the two healer route, Cure III.

The only remote gear check is if everyone didn't reach or get near the accuracy cap to hit ADS consistently (which can be rectified with food). The fact that you're saying it's easier to carry fail people the regular way (having to dodge lazer, pass rot, etc etc) instead of standing in one spot and spamming your rotation is cray.

That, or you're the best troll ever.. in which I give you a solid 9/10 for making my head hurt at your comments.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

Or it's like skipping all the mobs in turn three to ignore all their mechanics...but we don't want that changed now do we? ;)

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Turn 3 is a bad example because it doesn't give you any rewards and there aren't any bosses or actual mechanics to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Taika

Turn 3 is a bad example because it doesn't give you any rewards.

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So it's only ok to skip mechanics when there's no gear?

Silly excuse imo.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

I would rather finish t1-t5 in under a hour then take a break personally.

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That bladder must be legendary

Holding it for less than an hourr is a challenge?

Enraged screws over Tanks just like Titan HM. Halves the demand for tanks and this so much worse Turn 2 is not repeatable. It means that for any given population, it's impossible for half the tanks to do T2.

Tanks will just have to boycott runs that start with T3/4 then. (!?)

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Originally Posted by bob13bob

Enraged screws over Tanks just like Titan HM. Halves the demand for tanks and this so much worse Turn 2 is not repeatable. It means that for any given population, it's impossible for half the tanks to do T2.

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Right. Not like tanks out there have DPS classes leveled or anything. Oh, wait. . .

You know when you order a burger and fires, and your parent/girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever says to the waiter "No, they don't want that, they'll have the pastrami on rye" That's a little bit like this thread. The people that designed the instance say that this is an acceptable way of completing the turn, yet some of you have decided that the devs don't actually know what they want and that you will decide, and police it for them.

Let it go. Stop being so wound up by what other people do. Instead, concentrate on playing your game your way, and make your own groups the way you want them. There is nothing stopping any of you from starting your own group of 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 DPS, going into T2 and passing rot between you all till your heart's content. Unless you didn't beat T1 yet.....

No one joined over 2.5 hour for normal strat confirmed lol , then enrage party gathered less than in 1 hour ( all this was yesterday )

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Holding it for less than an hourr is a challenge?

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When you drink water like you're supposed to...yes....yes it is.

Sounds like a weak bladder.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

When you drink water like you're supposed to...yes....yes it is.

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Don't think you're supposed to go once an hour. I think you might need to visit a doctor.

If se wanted to kill you I said time they would ex. Garuda ex. Turn 4 has an enrage and it doesn't kill you correct? Why aren't u complaining about it? Also if you don't want to deal with rot then go kill the node and run 2 pld and 4 brds and silence everything. There's diff ways of thinking and you can't punish ppl for it. You see ppl running thru turn 3 with out fighting mobs is that an exploit too? Throw out all the exploits you want but se just said they won't change it so get over it.