New Live Letter: YoshiP Comments on Housing Prices

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Originally Posted by flamds1

Its happened with every major patch to every mmo ever. When it's all said and done some will leave, some will stay but complain forever, the rest will carry on like nothing happened.

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NGE was a patch, it pretty much killed a game .. just saying.

FC Housing is a fun little treat that some casuals (speaking only for myself and my very small family style FC) really look forward to for just decorating, talking about and crafting for... it's not something that we expect or feel entitled to give us combat or progression advantage. We really just want a little place to hang out... maybe garden... and to leave little "surprises" we carft or find or quest for alone or together for each other.

The intent for us to have to save up 3 months farming gil to get the land just sucks all the fun and novelty out of it for us. We aren't hardcore and don't want to be- we are talking about the equivalent to playing dollhouse here, FFS. Comments about people being "lazy" or "earning" something really just don't jive with the spirit of this kind of gameplay.

I mean we are all crafters, and we have been speculating on crafting curtains and carpets and couches and stuff. This is not hardcore gaming we are discussing here...good God, all I wanted was a plant or vegetable garden in our yard to water and watch grow together... am I really asking for too much? Is this really something I need to grind money for 3 months to get? Is it really asking for so much for us to be able to raise chocobos together so we can threaten to feed each other's babies to our chocobo? Why is it so hard to just have a little fun in this game??

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Originally Posted by PapesseLudovique

Hey look at the cultural expert! Its a Japanese thing! From someone who has no idea what the Japanese players are doing or saying.
and what's this? You're being patronizing about it too?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-in-agreement.

The Japanese thread this links to, the one that complaining about the prices? Has over 1000 'likes'.
The Japanese players HATE these prices as much as we do!

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The thread has over 2k likes.
That's proof enough people hate this BS. [I'm sure everyone from everywhere went ahead and liked the post too.]

I can't stand these White Knight's anymore.
Yoshi can do no wrong, ever. With the little time we had to make cash, even 1.0 players can't afford it.
Those who wanted to go solo, well that's out the air.
This is what happens when you have RMT's acting like they own the damn place.
Patch should be called: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm for RMT's to go friggin' wild because
this is a perfect patch.

-SE and RMT's shaking hands.gif;

the big problem I have with the housing is that I consider my friends and I to be the average player. we're probably not. but in that case we have I think 6 or 7 players that are all RL friends. we might all be able to get to 500k-1m each easily enough... that'll get us a house in 3 months... assuming they aren't all gone. there are people in one of my linkshells that are like "oh yeah I got like 20 mil and my gf has another 10 mil, we're good to go"... so how many of these people that have abused the marketplace and have a FC with 1 or two actual people in it will purchase all the cheap ones for themselves?

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

You can buy a house, but not the land.

*insert sinister laugher*

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You...you...!

Oh, that's good.

Maybe we just have to zoom out the camera to see the massive ammounts of gil piling up around us?

Or maybe we get a feature where we can send our retainers farming 24/7! Just like all the other bots.

I'm just glad the new treasure hunt pays so well. 1k gil every 18 hours? C'mon 300mil is NOTHING with that kind of supply!

Or I could try to sell tomestone materials to all the other players running dungeons to sell tomestone materials to the other players running dungeons to sell tomestone materials to the other....nvm.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

This kind of proves you know nothing of JP society...especially when it comes to gaming lol.

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I'm pretty certain you don't know much either. You have your preconceived notions to how JP should be acting towards this...

How about you go check out the JP forums and read their reactions to this...

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

Patch should be called: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm for RMT's to go friggin' wild because
this is a perfect patch.

-SE and RMT's shaking hands.gif;

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If you can't beat em, Hire them. :P

Another point nobody brought up yet is the fact that the house and plot will vanish if nobody is there for a certain ammount of time. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Err, I mean, what if our FC takes a few weeks off from the game? We come back and our house, the plot of land and all the gil we spent on it will be gone?
Are you serious?

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

I'm pretty certain you don't know much either. You have your preconceived notions to how JP should be acting towards this...

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Actually, I know more than you think. I already know (especially from what I read here and on 2ch) that no one would accept this even with how "accepting" JP players tend to be when it comes to certain MMOs. How about you actually read what I wrote before?

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

True - Except living in a house isn't this insurmountable challenge that's equivalent of slaying the embodiment of a Mother Crystal (Provenance Watcher) the first time no one knew what to do in XI.

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In response to:

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

You have to take into account this game is being developed by a Japanese company. Japan's society is based on collective values, they will naturally develop barriers that take teamwork to overcome.

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Read the topic a bit more :p

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Originally Posted by Kyana

Another point nobody brought up yet is the fact that the house and plot will vanish if nobody is there for a certain ammount of time. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Err, I mean, what if our FC takes a few weeks off from the game? We come back and our house, the plot of land and all the gil we spent on it will be gone?
Are you serious?

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I wish i could say that you're wrong... As of 2.2, if there's inactivity the land will be reclaimed and the house demolished; Then resold.

This rule will hurt smaller FC's most of all.. It would have been difficult for them to collect that much gil in the first place and if the group is inactive for a period because of whatever reasons, all their earnings will be wiped away and they will have to restart from scratch.

It's frustrating seeing people saying 'go work for it' when for many FCs, that's what we've been doing since the 2.0 launch. I know my FC has been working since the start to pool money for 2.1 housing and I personally know many others who have as well. For us, its not 'wait 3 months', its really 'wait 6 months' since that's how long we've been at this and will have to be at it for even the glimmer of a small house. And there is the chance that at that 6 month point (from our perspective, 3 months since 2.1 launch), all those small plots are taken, then we will be waiting on SE to add another instance, and that new instance starts plot prices at the highest point again, so then that's another 3 month wait. This is a real possibility that not enough people are taking into account. You can work hard, spend half a year at this, finally have enough money, and then have to wait even longer because of SE's fear of server budgeting/testing/coding/whatever, not a fault on you or your FC. It's a terrible insult to players who have been taking this long promoted feature seriously and working towards it for months already.

As for what Yoshi said today about being able to make 20k a day from the new content, that's nice, but activity rewards aren't scaled by server, now are they? Again, its a punishment against all servers, legacy in particular, especially players who came to these servers brand new as of 2.0. So much of an MMO is about community, feeling pride or a sense of home on your server and with those around you. I don't see any of that with this going on. I just see people frustrated at their community, their server, and SE, because a few people are holding the majority of money which is now punishing all players, and we can't even pack up and head to more stable climates. It's a breeding ground of frustration, disappointment, and resentment, amongst other things.

Given how often the numbers in general that Yoshi has stated in live letters have been incorrect or significantly changed, at this point he really shouldn't make statements on them any more. It just comes across as he really is not as in touch with his teams as one would think he would be. Even the other day during the live letter, he was saying 8mil for a small house on legacy servers, then an hour later the update notes are posted and its really 20-40mil. That's information he really should have already been familiar with and been able to express clearly, especially when questions are polled and culled in advance for answering. If he's not the one in the know, let's have the staff who do know what's going on guest appear on the live letters to give us more clear and accurate responses.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

The thread has over 2k likes.
That's proof enough people hate this BS. [I'm sure everyone from everywhere went ahead and liked the post too.]

I can't stand these White Knight's anymore.
Yoshi can do no wrong, ever. With the little time we had to make cash, even 1.0 players can't afford it.
Those who wanted to go solo, well that's out the air.
This is what happens when you have RMT's acting like they own the damn place.
Patch should be called: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm for RMT's to go friggin' wild because
this is a perfect patch.

-SE and RMT's shaking hands.gif;

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Count to ten and breathe, again like it or not 2k is a minority when you consider how many are playing now before you go sprouting that phrase which i'm sure most of you are using incorrectly i don't agree with the prices but getting your hopes up over 2k people liking a thread well your setting yourself up for disappointment.

SE's instance servers can't handle a large number of housing instances? Solution: Upgrade servers No, no... Divide players among servers and treat them unequally. Especially the Legacy ones since they would have the money to buy all instances if the prices were equal for all - you know, just as the price of every other game mechanic is equal.

Separate but equal....

i don't see personal housing being much cheaper if there intent on have a fc bust there nut for a year + just to get the gill there sure to dick us on personal housing… I'm a solo player do my own thing like it that way played since beta loved the idea of housing got dicked when i found out fc housing was coming first then started a fc started ranking it up then the absolute ridiculous price of the land and housing.. i play well played quite a lot not working and all what about the majority of ppl that pay there sub and work and play casual?? not to mention the problems that will arise with in fc's say john wants to put in for the house but bill doesn't etc due to personal housing causing problems within the fc its self .. way to fuck with the already fragile community yoshi

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

*snipped because bad forum*

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Corrected in my post :)
and I agree, fanboys are what is killing this industry.

Its disgusting watching them actually working against their own best interest, out of some weak misplaced affection for companies that clearly don't care about them.


Its always the same set of strawman arguments and logical fallacies. (i.e. claiming that forum communities are a minority, thus the support here doesn't count. While being the minority of that minority).

They accuse the critics of crying about trivial matters, without a shred of a sense of irony or hypocrisy, in crying over criticism. Because we all know forum posts that bruise their ego is way less trivial, than a joyless game mechanic that prohibits most from enjoying it.

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Originally Posted by Ispen

Count to ten and breathe, again like it or not 2k is a minority when you consider how many are playing now before you go sprouting that phrase which i'm sure most of you are using incorrectly i don't agree with the prices but getting your hopes up over 2k people liking a thread well your setting yourself up for disappointment.

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Yeah, sorry I'm pretty pissed about these prices.
I don't care if I'm Minority or whatever the hell. I am sick of seeing that word all over the damn place.

I WANNA HOUSE WAHH! <-- Yup that's me. I wanna house, and I want it at a reasonable price.
I looked forward to housing. I don't mind me busting my ass off, but not like this. I don't care if it is
FC housing. They shouldn't of put FC housing BEFORE Personal. Another screwy mistake.
"Well we wanted to test servers dur hur." You'll have a better time stressed them them out with personal.
Not many people will even afford this crap. Nothing to stress here guys! Only 1 FC house was sold derp for 20 mill! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

SE's instance servers can't handle a large number of housing instances? Solution: Upgrade servers No, no... Divide players among servers and treat them unequally. Especially the Legacy ones since they would have the money to buy all instances if the prices were equal for all - you know, just as the price of every other game mechanic is equal.

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Why would they want to actually improve their game from the bottom up? If you put enough gil grinds in, people will never notice how shoddily built the content is!

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Originally Posted by Skinwalker

What does that mean "adjustments" ? Lets say he noticed that the prices are to high and cut them down... Are ppl that bought a land already by then fucked? <.<

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The entire 'price-reduction-over-time' system that unsold lots have is exactly this, yes.

The big problem with this for me is that it means this patch has almost no content for me.

I am in a small, casual free company -- which means that a lot of the new content (extreme primals, crystal tower, etc.) in the new patch is content I am unlikely to see. I am not complaining; I make my own choices. Housing, by contrast, seemed like something that everyone could participate in -- and my free company has been working to get into the gil range they previously indicated would be the cost of housing. A range which they have passed 10-fold or more.

We could grind for the next few months, and get the money to buy a house (assuming they aren't all bought by then) -- but grinding isn't fun, it isn't content, and it isn't a reason to keep paying for another three months.

This decision seems like another in a long string of miscalculations. I guess the best bet is to keep an eye on the new MMOs that will be released in the spring.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

The thread has over 2k likes.
That's proof enough people hate this BS. [I'm sure everyone from everywhere went ahead and liked the post too.]

I can't stand these White Knight's anymore.
Yoshi can do no wrong, ever. With the little time we had to make cash, even 1.0 players can't afford it.
Those who wanted to go solo, well that's out the air.
This is what happens when you have RMT's acting like they own the damn place.
Patch should be called: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm for RMT's to go friggin' wild because
this is a perfect patch.

-SE and RMT's shaking hands.gif;

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Originally Posted by Ispen

Count to ten and breathe, again like it or not 2k is a minority when you consider how many are playing now before you go sprouting that phrase which i'm sure most of you are using incorrectly i don't agree with the prices but getting your hopes up over 2k people liking a thread well your setting yourself up for disappointment.

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Actually, chances are it's not a minority. The normal breakdown for game population vs active forum members is usually a 90:10 ratio (or 70:30 depending on the study); Meaning that for every person actively complaining or contributing to the thread, there is a large number of people either lurking or simply not visiting the forums, and when you consider how frustrating this forum is to deal with (with content limits and limits on thread creations/replies), there is likely a very large population that will never set foot in here.

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Originally Posted by Lingarn

The big problem with this for me is that it means this patch has almost no content for me.

I am in a small, casual free company and my free company has been working to get into the gil range they previously indicated would be the cost of housing. A range which they have passed 10-fold or more.

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Dedication is rewarded. Money sinks are meant for the players that have nothing else to spend money on. Unfortunately you'll never reach that stage as a casual. However there is such a thing as overboard... 100million should have been the cap if u ask me for the most expensive house and NOT server dependent.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

Actually, chances are it's not a minority. The normal breakdown for game population vs active forum members is usually a 90:10 ratio; Meaning that for every person actively complaining or contributing to the thread, there is a large number of people either lurking or simply not visiting the forums, and when you consider how frustrating this forum is to deal with (with content limits and limits on thread creations/replies), there is likely a very large population that will never set foot in here.

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You also have to consider the possibility that the 90:10 ratio isnt equal in this case. Im willing to bet that more people with stuff to complain about are vocal on the forums than not. Its like product reviews, not many people think to give a positive review when everything works fine, but if its broken,they'll go out of their way to complain about it. it makes it seem like a minority is a majority.

as seen by the PS4 launch, amazon had like 30% negative reviews for malfunctioning systems. That doesnt mean 30% of the total were broken, just that those with working machines were too busy playing to be on amazon

I find it ironic that legacy servers "the people who kept this game alive when it sucked" seem to be punished once again for being loyal. Since the way to earn gil is the same if you are stuck on a legacy server it will take 10x longer to earn said gil just seems so unfair. Some 1.0 players who came back were not legacy but still had to go onto legacy servers or start completely over and forget about friends. So the "helping build community" idea of SE is a non reality.

I am in a small free company of RL and in game friends who were really looked forward to housing to just hang out and decorate. To some this may seem small but to have saved for what we thought would be a reasonable price to find ourselves only 1/4 of the way there is disheartening.

I am excited for the patch but just disappointed in the housing prices. Just seems like they don't want people to use it so instead of delaying an improperly developed housing system SE just makes it unaffordable.

I don't get why everyone is crying about the high prices of houses. You guys say that most guilds won't be able to afford it.
Well, how about you get a cheaper house instead of the most expensive one? Surely, even your FC will be able to collect 4million, no? EVERYONE can afford the housing, it just won't be the biggest.

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

I don't get why everyone is crying about the high prices of houses. You guys say that most guilds won't be able to afford it.
Well, how about you get a cheaper house instead of the most expensive one? Surely, even your FC will be able to collect 4million, no? EVERYONE can afford the housing, it just won't be the biggest.

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what about servers whose cheapest price is 20 mil?

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

I don't get why everyone is crying about the high prices of houses. You guys say that most guilds won't be able to afford it.
Well, how about you get a cheaper house instead of the most expensive one? Surely, even your FC will be able to collect 4million, no? EVERYONE can afford the housing, it just won't be the biggest.

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Cheapest is 8 million for us, and 40 million for others.

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Originally Posted by Ispen

Count to ten and breathe, again like it or not 2k is a minority when you consider how many are playing now before you go sprouting that phrase which i'm sure most of you are using incorrectly i don't agree with the prices but getting your hopes up over 2k people liking a thread well your setting yourself up for disappointment.

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"Count to ten and breath" seems to be the new copy pasted buzzphrase for the fanboys.

Lets go over your logical fallacy:
First off, despite the fact that say you don't like the prices, it matters not when your real concern seems to be arguing with the critics.
Second, 2000 on the boards being a minority is a moot point, when you can count the number of supporters on your hands.

The problem is, you're assuming that the people outside the boards have fundamentally different beliefs and tastes, than within. So if the majority here seems to hate the prices, its a good bet that most outside do to.

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

I don't get why everyone is crying about the high prices of houses. You guys say that most guilds won't be able to afford it.
Well, how about you get a cheaper house instead of the most expensive one? Surely, even your FC will be able to collect 4million, no? EVERYONE can afford the housing, it just won't be the biggest.

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uhh thats only on a few servers and after 90 days if theres still land whats it on your server 8mill 90 days later 4mill .. read the patch notes plz!!!

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Originally Posted by Lexxuk

20,000g per day. So an FC with 10 members will make 200k a day, the cheapest house on Durandal is 40,000,000 . 40,000,000 / 200,000 = 200 days to obtain the smallest house. 30 days (roughly) in a month, 200/30 = over 6 months to obtain the cheapest house on Durandal.

20,000 per day, the most expensive house is 645,000,000, so it'll only take 32,250 days for that FC to obtain that, or with 100 members, 3,250 days, or with 1,000, a year.

"Let's introduce content that most people will not obtain"
"Why?!"
"Why not?"
"Oh, okay, let's go for it!"

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why do you expect a fc with 10 members to get the biggest house possible?

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

I don't get why everyone is crying about the high prices of houses. You guys say that most guilds won't be able to afford it.
Well, how about you get a cheaper house instead of the most expensive one? Surely, even your FC will be able to collect 4million, no? EVERYONE can afford the housing, it just won't be the biggest.

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Your ilk gives me hemmoroids so just stop. Why should a medium sized guild waste its members money on yhe cheapest shittiest land for a "house" the size of an o
Inn room? It would be different if you could expand once bought but what's the point of blowing all that gil on something sub par? A shack isn't something a fc can feel proud of blowing its members gil on. For most a medium house is incredibly out of reach. Please stop hurting my anus.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

You also have to consider the possibility that the 90:10 ratio isnt equal in this case. Im willing to bet that more people with stuff to complain about are vocal on the forums than not. Its like product reviews, not many people think to give a positive review when everything works fine, but if its broken,they'll go out of their way to complain about it. it makes it seem like a minority is a majority.

as seen by the PS4 launch, amazon had like 30% negative reviews for malfunctioning systems. That doesnt mean 30% of the total were broken, just that those with working machines were too busy playing to be on amazon

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It could very well be like that, i wasn't trying to say that everyone who isn't posting is probably unhappy as well. I was just meaning that you can't discount the forum activity just because a thread has a "small" number of likes, since we haven't (and will never) hear from a vast majority of the player-base.

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

Cheapest is 8 million for us, and 40 million for others.

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Why does the amount matter? Old servers obviously have different economies and more money in circulation. Yes, it still sucks for legacy players. But on newer servers even First-Class plots for small houses will be 8-10m. Thats still very much affordable for most guilds.

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Originally Posted by Seikijin

Dedication is rewarded. Money sinks are meant for the players that have nothing else to spend money on. Unfortunately you'll never reach that stage as a casual. However there is such a thing as overboard... 100million should have been the cap if u ask me for the most expensive house and NOT server dependent.

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I dedicated the first 3 months to saving gil -- as a casual player, I earned over 700K by myself, which was close to the range of what they said housing would be. They rewarded that with this.

They have created false scarcity with high prices to make people grind limited content for months, plausibly to cover their lack of infrastructure. That isn't a good way to operate a game, and it will hurt them.

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

Why does the amount matter? Old servers obviously have different economies and more money in circulation. Yes, it still sucks for legacy players. But on newer servers even First-Class plots for small houses will be 8-10m. Thats still very much affordable for most guilds.

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It should be affordable to everyone.
Legacy's still can't afford it.
Also, no one wants a doo-doo piece of land, sorry to say.
Again, I am sure no one wants to go bankrupt.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

Or you know, you could try to make more than 20k a day. That 20k is just from farming/dungeons. You could make a lot more from selling materia, crafted items, ingredients, etc.

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Who is going to do that now? People will be saving every Gil to their name.
No one will buy shit anymore. Not to mention, the market's are already bad as it is.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

Your ilk gives me hemmoroids so just stop. Why should a medium sized guild waste its members money on yhe cheapest shittiest land for a "house" the size of an o
Inn room? It would be different if you could expand once bought but what's the point of blowing all that gil on something sub par? A shack isn't something a fc can feel proud of blowing its members gil on. For most a medium house is incredibly out of reach. Please stop hurting my anus.

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Do we really know how big they are? I don't think they actually showed the actual size. Even the smallest houses might be big enough for a guild. Unless yours is one of those 200 members guilds. But thats your problem.
Sorry for hurting your anus.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

Your ilk gives me hemmoroids so just stop. Why should a medium sized guild waste its members money on yhe cheapest shittiest land for a "house" the size of an o
Inn room? It would be different if you could expand once bought but what's the point of blowing all that gil on something sub par? A shack isn't something a fc can feel proud of blowing its members gil on. For most a medium house is incredibly out of reach. Please stop hurting my anus.

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great point while the super rich farming fc's that screws ppl when farming buys there land and etc whats left for the smaller poorer fc's the fucking crap thats not worth spending 1mill yoshi treating the the poor fc's like second class players i pay the same sub as someone else but because they farm the fuck out of the world and have more money they get better things.. hmmm shame yoshi shame

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Originally Posted by Grundy

312,000,000/20,000 is still 15,600 days farming. I call shenanigans, this is still absolute BS. Hell, even the entry level house on Excalibur would take 2000 days farming, and by that reasoning, if everyone in my Free Company (about 35 ppl) farmed 7 days a week, that would still be 446 or 57 days. I'm sure my wife would totally understand this.

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Or you know, you could try to make more than 20k a day. That 20k is just from farming/dungeons. You could make a lot more from selling materia, crafted items, ingredients, etc.

I think the developers don't understand that a 'feature' you talk about is supposed to be something accessible for people, and that includes a large house. I was never able to afford the mega expensive purple in WoW, but WoW doesn't advertise the mega expensive bags as a major feature. The expensive stuff should be the decorations. Everyone should be able to get the land but if you want a statue of Bahamut outside of your FC housing you'd have to shell out a ton of money,.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

Or you know, you could try to make more than 20k a day. That 20k is just from farming/dungeons. You could make a lot more from selling materia, crafted items, ingredients, etc.

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to who? the rest of the server that's also trying to do the exact same thing?

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

Because the economy will never experience inflation and you'll never earn gil at a greater rate than what you're currently earning it, right?
Is this your first MMO?

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Here's a hint, massive gilsinks are not an inflationary force on the economy.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

I think the developers don't understand that a 'feature' you talk about is supposed to be something accessible for people, and that includes a large house. I was never able to afford the mega expensive purple in WoW, but WoW doesn't advertise the mega expensive bags as a major feature. The expensive stuff should be the decorations. Everyone should be able to get the land but if you want a statue of Bahamut outside of your FC housing you'd have to shell out a ton of money,.

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I agree. The costs should come from -building- your house up, not having the right to set the first stone.

If they don't deal with this situation properly, and responsibly.. the Garrison system for WoW and the housing system in Wildstar is going to look mighty tempting.