It's times like this I am so glad Yoshi-P gave us those player polls.
If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!
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03-10-2011, 05:18 AMCorrderio
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03-10-2011, 05:19 AMAbriaelNot really. There are plenty mechanics in place that result that when subclassed an ability is much less effective then when main classed. That itself removes the problem, or would remove it if the content became challenging enough to test the effectiveness of the abilities to their limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsai
Unless, of course, you want every mob in the game to stay <easy prey>. In that case the problem would stay.
As I'm free not to associate with me, the problem doesn't affect me. When the challenge bar is high enough, most people learn the hard way.Quote:
There will always be more stupid people than smart, so I'm afraid it will effect you. Limiting the out of control freedom will greatly reduce ineffective set ups and jack-of-all-trades clones.
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03-10-2011, 05:22 AMZkieve
I dont understand why people keep saying this system gives you freedom to make your own class.
You dont have freedom at all, you are still bound to get the same skills for every single class and job.
The stats? apart from HP and MP there is no meaning barely to increase one stat or the other, were is the freedom here ?
You know what is freedom ? if i could put 1k STR and 1 hit everythin, and at the same time to be 1 shoted by everythin.
Now that is freedom.The current system have everythin capped so you have NO freedom at all.
I like the armory system but its so badly implemented that i wouldnt mind geting rid of it all.
In FFXI i could change to a whm from my pld get gear on and play perfectly.In here if i whanna change to a mage job from my glad i have to wait hours to respec all my points.
Defence doesnt work, i could tank naked.Yes really all that matters is HP and a shield.Why? becouse the game have so many soft/hard caps that the only thing worth anythin is your rank versus the mob rank.
How is this freedom?No please explain it to me.Becouse all i see is someone who eighter doesnt get it or have not played the game and its limitations ON EVERYTHIN at all.
Dont get me started on why no rank/class requirement for gear is a bad idea all together. -
03-10-2011, 05:26 AMAmyRaeThat's not freedom. That's boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
Where's the fun in having 1k STR and killing everything with a spoon in one hit? Sounds like a snore-fest to me. -
03-10-2011, 05:35 AMAbriaelYou can have all the skills you want, but having the skills doesn't automatically put them in your bar, and doesn't automatically use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
You can put only a certain amount of skills in bar, and you can use an even more limited amount. That's choice. And freedom of choice is freedom. -
03-10-2011, 05:47 AMAva
I think the problem with this system is it contributes to the lack of class uniqueness. Just like the OP said you can make any class whatever you want, but honestly, how good of an idea is that really? Think about it. If you've ever played any game out there classes have specific roles that pull in specific player types that form a connection with that role. If I want to be a healer I want to look at a class and say "THATS A HEALER". But when there's so much customization where healers can be offtanks and dps can be offhealers and tanks are just insignificant because why take a pure tank when a THM could tank just as well? That's bad. Sure, it allows for the individual player to be awesomely unique but this isn't a single player game.
I can see why people defend these systems, but you really need to think of it from a MMORPG perspective, not a single player RPG. In an MMORPG classes need defined roles and they should not be so customizable that everyone can do everything. That idea is great for the player, but not for the game. And this is why it needs to be changed. -
03-10-2011, 05:49 AMShinChuck
I would love for the Armory system to stick around, although I'd be fine with stats being auto-distributed for each job.
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03-10-2011, 05:52 AMZkieveWell it would be better than what we currently have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
All chars balanced with a illusion of freedom of choice. Anything you equip/spec makes you better by .1 in the best cases.
In the end you dont feel special at all. -
03-10-2011, 05:52 AMAbriaelThat would be true if everyone could do everything. But that's false. And it'll be even more false as soon as challenging content (that as I read, is already planned for introduction) is implemented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
The fact that classes are flexible, does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that you can make any class whatever you want. You can not. -
03-10-2011, 05:53 AMXzenThe only reason a THM can tank is because of Emulate which is OP. A DoW can not off heal. They deffinatly need to buff some of the more DD type classes though. Especially the only close range one that can't take a hit. *cough Lancer! cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
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03-10-2011, 05:56 AMZkieveget to 50 and look at your skills, 50% of them are worthless, the other 50% are what everyone else uses becouse is the only thins that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Everyone using the same actions/skills because there is nothing better to use.
Sure that is freedom of choice , to gymp yourself or not that is.There are many ways i could think of to make it less restrictive and more freedom than what we have now. -
03-10-2011, 05:58 AMXzenWell are you asking them to scrap it or improve it? I know I have leveled certain jobs to acquire skills that are useful for tanking/survivability/incapacitation to use on my rank 50s that a lot of people have not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
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03-10-2011, 05:59 AMDemacia
Freedom should be the ability to switch to whatever role I want to and be effective at it and the current system doesn't support that. Besides, who do you know that doesn't have second wind, shock spikes, and siphon MP equipped full time for every class?
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03-10-2011, 06:01 AMArghAGREED!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
the fanboys are ruining these forums. instead of talking about how to FIX the stupid game they are demanding nothing changes, my god!!!!!! -
03-10-2011, 06:06 AMXzenI'm pretty sure the fans are asking for things to be fixed. Unlike the Trolls that come asking for the only good things to be scrapped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argh
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03-10-2011, 06:08 AMZkieveNighter, i like armory system but is poorly implemented.if the solution is to scrap it i welcome it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzen
If the solution is to fix it i welcome it as well.
But saying this system gives you freedom is like saying cuba is the land of freedom.
Illusion of freedom =/= freedom. -
03-10-2011, 06:09 AMDemaciaWhile I don't agree with the guy you're quoting, the game really isn't fine the way it is. Disliking the game's "unique" features doesn't mean people are trolling. There's a reason or ten that this game is failing hard at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzen
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03-10-2011, 06:14 AMAbriaelNot really. I can't even count how many skills I have that I would love to be able to use, but that simply don't fit the action point allowance. That's why I have to make a choice. A situational choice, I may add, because I use several skill setups with the same class depending on the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
No, they're asking for things that WORK (and make this game something different from every other wow clone on the market) to be kept and improved, instead of scrapping EVERYTHING because something doesn't work. Like that was even possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argh
Sorry to burst a big bubble, but the only ones ruining this forums are the trolls that come here crying "I don't like Final Fantasy XIV! Let's scrap the whole game, and make another game with the Final Fantasy XIV name".
And none of them is the armory system or physical level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demacia
It's lack of content, lack of stuff to do, lack of challenge, lack of party tools, UI still needing work and more.
The most funny thing is that the biggest critics of the game in this forum often cite reviews, and basically the only thing that's been widely praised by ALL reviewers (besides graphics) is the armoury system. -
03-10-2011, 06:16 AMKyant
I don't think many people want to get rid of the Armory System, and I haven't heard any talk from SE on the subject. It is basically the same as in FFXI and it works.
As for the desire to wear whatever gear you want... I must say that if you want to wear whatever you want, then you should get a dress up game, and not a MMO. The "coolness" of an item is inversely proportional to how many people are wearing it... so if everyone has the "cool" gear... then that gear isn't so cool anymore, now is it? The more experienced players of the community, and the developers at SE, are taking a more long-lived view of the level and restrictions placed on equipment and are planning changes on the current gear system. But don't get them wrong, from what I've heard there will be a limited number of items that have level, rank, and/or class requirements. And I think that is a good way to go.
As for the point allotment system, I think you may have misread, or not even seen, some of the things SE has said. For the second player's poll, players voted in favor of option 2 I believe... option 2 changed how point allotment worked. Currently, you place your points and those points are used for every single class you may play. the change proposed in the player's poll was to make it so that your points were class specific... so you are able to customize your gladiator, and your conjurer, and your pugilist... all with a different combination of stats (while each class still had the same max number of points available to allot)... So really, we are not in danger of losing any of the customization that we currently possess. -
03-10-2011, 06:17 AMXzenI don't think the game is fine the way it is. As a matter of fact the op even says that they have no issues with fixing it but the community here seems to be attacking some of the very few good features there are in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demacia
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03-10-2011, 06:18 AMBruceyBruceyBangBang
Isn't all of this premature? I have not once read anything on the development team class/rank locking gear completely. They said they would be creating ADDITIONAL gear that does this ALONG with the current system to give class uniqueness.
As far as physical level goes, you cannot ask to allot specifically for each class and keep physical levels. If you have a problem with it, why don't you stop trying to find a viable point to your argument and just say what you really want. The ability to overpower your classes in the lower ranks. That's all you have to say. You don't have to manipulate it and try to fool people that it's not your intention! It's pretty obvious. Furthermore, the development team said in a recent interview that they are remodeling the stat modifiers and soft caps to something more simplistic anyway. You probably won't even remember the old system when they get rid of it and add easier to manage and more comprehensive formulas anyway. Just give up the argument. There are several ideas that are incredibly superior to what is already in place. -
03-10-2011, 06:30 AMZottan
Totally agree! Do no change the things that works
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03-10-2011, 06:50 AMNyx
I personally like the system as it is. Not all of the classes get the full potential of the abilities from other classes. For example my friend leveled up conjurer and gladiator and he did not modify his numbers in mind. With cure 2 he was doing 400 on his conjurer but on gladiator it was only getting 200.
To try to appeal to people who want to have the different classes and not have to re allocate all of their points I think a type of memory system should be put in place where the system will remember that on Conjurer I had 100 intelligence and that on Gladiator I had 100 vitality. -
03-10-2011, 06:54 AMAbriaelIt's not even a matter of stats. It's mostly a matter of class affinity. That's exactly the weak point in the conspiracy theory inflated by those that say that there's no difference between classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx
To use a FFXI example, between a CON and a GLA using CON abilities there's the same difference that there's between a White Mage and a Paladin in Final Fantasy XI.
And I doubt that anyone would dare say that there was no difference between White Mages and Paladins in Final Fantasy XI.
They just refuse to aknowledge it, or simply don't notice it, because the mobs in FFXIV are so easy to kill that even a Final Fantasy XI paladin would easily heal through them. -
03-10-2011, 06:55 AMGathThis is truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNixon
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03-10-2011, 06:58 AMXzenThis is basically what they are headed for but with the Physical level removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx
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03-10-2011, 07:21 AMZkieveGreat on pen and paper .Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
In game, currently ,completly mest up.
What situation diference ? theres only 2 types of situations right now. group and solo.
I understand what your saying, i had your line of tought and i got barely everythin i could to make the best tank posible.Only missing like 3-4 skills .
Guess what. it doesnt really matter.In the end the gladi skills and few low levels(30-) are the ones that actually saves the day.Hopefully this is changed soon. -
03-10-2011, 07:24 AMXzenGroup, solo, Tank, DPS, Healer, Incapacitation for NMs, Incapacitation for farming certain materials. Thats a few reasons why I have different set ups for my skill bars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
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03-10-2011, 07:25 AMAbriaelMmmh no? Different monsters create different situations. Easiest example: I don't even put shell in bar if I'm going against non-magic using mobs (and I normally replace it with absorb ACC).Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
And if mobs were more challenging (like it's planned), the numbers of situations would effectively increase. As of now you can slack and use a generic setup in many cases simply because the mobs don't challenge your skills to their limit.
Raise the challenge, and you'll also raise the need for fine-tuning. -
03-10-2011, 07:28 AMZkieve
i wont try to discuss it further if you guys fail to see the point.
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03-10-2011, 07:38 AMRjainIf there wasn't a problem the game wouldn't be on the verge of death due to the extremely low population count and people quitting every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by EliseDee
I believe the majority of players voted to have restricted gear. I don't think they're changing current gear, just future gear. This gives players more incentive to play to reach a higher rank with that class to get the gear.Quote:
First The Armory System, I enjoy having the option of wearing whatever gear for whatever class at whatever level, given yes there are down points to this but it allows me to do a few things that I enjoy.
The physical level system is currently broken and useless. The stats currently do not make a significant difference, and there's less customization that you may think. Having magic on a war class for example is usually not anywhere close to as effective as a magic class. You'd basically put on cure and sacrifice and that's about it. Anything else is a waste of time and you won't be as effective if you didn't put all those stats into war class stats.Quote:
Second The point allotment system. I LIKE having a physical level, this makes the difference between a casual player who plays one class and a hardcore player who does many.
Yes I am.Quote:
YOU are not a game designer you do not know the ideal behind how they wanted the game.
In closing, game is broken. It needs to be fixed. -
03-10-2011, 07:58 AMAbriaelGame on the "verge of death?" yay, the exaggeration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjain
What an extreme overseimplification. No, thanks. I have plenty spells on my gladiator that aren't just cure or sacrifice, and I use them regularly, and effectively.Quote:
The physical level system is currently broken and useless. The stats currently do not make a significant difference, and there's less customization that you may think. Having magic on a war class for example is usually not anywhere close to as effective as a magic class. You'd basically put on cure and sacrifice and that's about it. Anything else is a waste of time and you won't be as effective if you didn't put all those stats into war class stats.
The fact that you can't think out of the box about spells usage, doesn't mean other can't as well.
And of course we're supposed to believe you.Quote:
Yes I am.
for someone that claims to be a "game developer" you have a very elastic idea of the definition of "broken".Quote:
In closing, game is broken. It needs to be fixed.
Also, the fact that some aspects of the game need to be fixed/polished/improved doesn't mean that the game is broken, nor it means that the physical level/armoury system are between those aspects. -
03-10-2011, 08:06 AMRjain
If you cannot see what is clearly in front of you it is not my fault you are walking blind. I don't even need to argue anything. Take a look at the game, the poll responses, and compare the game to when it came out. Some servers are almost dead. The ones that are not dead are half dead. Clearly, those rose-tinted goggles of yours are distorting the facts.
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03-10-2011, 08:08 AMAbriaelYeaaah "the fact that you disagree with me is because you wear rose-tinted glasses"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjain
I look around myself and I see plenty people. I see plenty people from the first two months coming back to check the game, and being impressed by the improvement they see.
You can spell your doom and gloom as much as you like, but the game is already starting to pick up. Given your tones, I think that makes you angry :D -
03-10-2011, 08:12 AMRjainI am all for the success for this game but this game is not in a satisfactory condition. The majority of the players feel that, the development team feels that, the executive team feels that, and the stockholders feel that. That is enough evidence that this game is broken. Sprout what sarcasm and opinions you will, you can't get rid of the cold hard facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-10-2011, 08:27 AMTotobi
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...d5253e4362e17f
Just thought i'd link this. -
03-10-2011, 08:31 AMAbriaelAnd of course you can speak for the majority, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjain
And by the way, there's a BIG difference between "not in a satisfactory condition" and "broken" or "on the verge of death".
A professional game developer normally knows that :D -
03-10-2011, 08:35 AMKurokikaze
You're aware that your blatant white knighting is as bad as the trolling that is going on here? Right? You're not helping the game - you're making it worse.
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03-10-2011, 08:42 AMRjainI'm sure you know quite a bit about game developers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
This game costs millions of dollars to operate. The amount of money lost on this game is significant. Last year a little after the game was released SE lost $26 million in one day in stocks and XIV was blamed for that. Although the amount recovered over time, many stockholders have been dropping out due to this game's performance.
Broken means unbalanced and/or unenjoyable. I'm not too sure what it means to you. The game is unbalanced. The "verge of death" is indeed true. If major changes do not happen which will bring a large quantity of players back within the next few months to a year, and the PS3 release is not a success (I'm personally sure it will be), FFXIV may very well be unplugged.
Checking your lodestone I see you started when the game was released. I'm not sure what your server is like but if it was anything like mine every camp you'd go to and every city had several dozen to a couple hundred players at once. Everywhere was completely packed. Now, you'd be lucky to see 15 people at any one camp. The only camps I really see people at are at grinding camps and I only see about 20-30 people maximum. Limsa and Gridania are almost completely dead and Ul'dah has about 60-100 people in it. From what I can tell, Besaid is one of the most populated servers.
Those numbers are low. This game had several hundred thousand players registered (above 600,000 I believe) and it has dropped down to 17,000-30,000 active players maximum.
I'm afraid it's no dice.
Edit: Oh yeah, and poll results.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678
There's your majority. -
03-10-2011, 09:12 AMAbriaelI happen to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjain
And the sole fact that Square Enix is shouldering the costs and not showing the slightest drop in support for the game (quite the contrary, they reinforced the team), is quite the indication that the game isn't even near death. I've seen plenty games near death, and the indications on the developers side are always evident when you know where to look (layoffs, extreme attempts to juice the remaining customerbase as much as possible, and so forth).Quote:
This game costs millions of dollars to operate. The amount of money lost on this game is significant. Last year a little after the game was released SE lost $26 million in one day in stocks and XIV was blamed for that. Although the amount recovered over time, many stockholders have been dropping out due to this game's performance.
None of such indications surfaced for FFXIV. Quite the contrary.
No. Unbalanced means unbalanced. Unenjoyable means unenjyable (and this is very devatable, since I know quite a lot of people that enjoy it, I happen to as well, despite having my fair share of pet peeves). The nearest synonimous to "broken" when relates to games is "Unplayable" and FFXIV is very far from being unplayable.Quote:
Broken means unbalanced and/or unenjoyable. I'm not too sure what it means to you. The game is unbalanced.
A year? That's a very elastic interpretation of the expression "on the verge" isn't it?Quote:
The "verge of death" is indeed true. If major changes do not happen which will bring a large quantity of players back within the next few months to a year, and the PS3 release is not a success (I'm personally sure it will be), FFXIV may very well be unplugged.
That situation is very common to the launch of new MMORPGs. The average MMORPG gamer plays a lot during the first two weeks as much as every single days for several hours. Then many end up playing as little as 1 day a week, or even less. It's the simple passage from novelty to routine, and while it may be worse than the average in FFXIV, it's not nearly as bad as some (you) describe.Quote:
Checking your lodestone I see you started when the game was released. I'm not sure what your server is like but if it was anything like mine every camp you'd go to and every city had several dozen to a couple hundred players at once. Everywhere was completely packed. Now, you'd be lucky to see 15 people at any one camp. The only camps I really see people at are at grinding camps and I only see about 20-30 people maximum. Limsa and Gridania are almost completely dead and Ul'dah has about 60-100 people in it. From what I can tell, Besaid is one of the most populated servers.
It's not just in FFXIV, and I've seen populations drop much faster.
You have absolutely no concrete data to back up that estimate.Quote:
Those numbers are low. This game had several hundred thousand players registered (above 600,000 I believe) and it has dropped down to 17,000-30,000 active players maximum.
I must have missed the part of that poll in which they asked "do you dislike the game?" and the majority answered "yes"Quote:
Edit: Oh yeah, and poll results.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...16083b634f7678
There's your majority.