The Ultimate Black Mage Resources with Damage Calculator

Oh wow im quite surprised by this!

Thanks for all the hard work Puro!

I made a spreadsheet myself to compare gear choices between Allagan and Myth. With full Allagan + hero ring, you basicly have 406 acc. Assuming you want around 24~28 accuracy higher than that (Without food), these are your options:

(Stats converted to theoretical int values supplied by you for 735 avg damage with 2.35 gcd)
Myth Gloves: +15 acc -2.2 int
Myth Belt: +11 acc -2.2 int
Myth Chest: +34 acc -4.8 int
Myth Head+Chest: +19 acc +0.85 int
Myth Gloves+belt : +26 acc -4.4 int
Myth Head+Chest+Gloves: +34 acc -1.35 int
Myth Chest+Gloves+Pants: +25 acc -0.46 int

Depending on whether you plan to Always use food and depending on what the real accuracy cap is for t5, there are 4 really good choices:
Myth Gloves: +15 acc -2.2 int
Myth Head+Chest: +19 acc +0.85 int
Myth Head+Chest+Gloves: +34 acc -1.35 int
Myth Chest+Gloves+Pants: +25 acc -0.46 int

@EasymodeX

I thought we were comparing 10 crit vs 10 SS in the first place? Why you gotta be all sneaky and bumped up to 105 SS to make it a little more worthy to compare? >.<

Here's the bottom line:

If you add each of these stats to your current gear, you'd get the following benefit after 100 casts using my 100-spell rotation model:

+10 Int = 1200 extra dmg
+10 DET = 240 extra dmg
+10 SS = 1 extra sec
+10 Crit = 0.72% extra crit chance

It all depends on what the player want in the end.

Take it easy m8. (no pun)

@darknezz - Each set still have its place depending on the player's preference. I'll tweak the gear page to match the new spell speed weight soon. So, try keep your pants on for now. ^^

@NeoAmon - The difference is pretty small (within the 100th decimal place) between Crit and Spell SPD, where the weight for crit is dependent upon your avg damage and spell SPD is dependent upon your GCD.

*It's also worth mentioning that the difference between the Crit and Spell SPD is not static, meaning stat weight for Crit will eventually catch up with Spell SPD when your avg damage is high enough (~3500 damage per cast. :O)

@TempestZane - Thank you for your kind words :D

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Originally Posted by PuroStrider

@EasymodeX

I thought we were comparing 10 crit vs 10 SS in the first place? Why you gotta be all sneaky and bumped up to 105 SS to make it a little more worthy to compare? >.<

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So I could illustrate the concept more clearly.

I'm personally annoyed when people subjectively marginalize the effect of SS when they claim it does "so little" as 0.01s (with all signs pointing to an exponential gain, to boot). Conversely, CRT does "so little" as 0.7%, and it's not something anyone coherent is going to rely on.

In reality, you can't even find gear with as small increments of stats as 10ss or crit. You're basically swapping 20-30 units of ss/crit at a time, so any practical choice is going to escalate to 50-100 ss/crt very easily.

At 50 or 100 SS, you get meaningfully accelerated casts after a few consecutive spells -- resulting in an actual difference when responding to mechanics.

Regardless, DTR still beats both. What's more curious on CRT/SS is an analysis of the effect of SS on mana ticks, and at what thresholds does SS hit softcaps due to the mana management, including the subordinate question of "wait or cast Blizz1 or end UI early?" when you are not topped off due to SS. Comparing that result against CRT is the truer comparison.

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*It's also worth mentioning that the difference between the Crit and Spell SPD is not static, meaning stat weight for Crit will eventually catch up with Spell SPD when your avg damage is high enough (~3500 damage per cast. :O)

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This doesn't make sense because SS is exponential. SS gains more value per point the more SS you already have, with the exception of getting capped by mechanics (mana ticks, animations).

@EasymodeX - The part about sneaky stuff was a semi-joke. :O

In the end they (CRIT, SS, DET) are all within a hundredth decimal point difference with current BiS gear when it comes to stat weighing. 1 DET will always be worth 0.2 INT, while Crit and SS will be dependent upon your avg damage and GCD, respectively.

All three are almost interchangeable in a sense. It all comes down to what kind of person you are or what you want.

DET = Boring person who just wants to consistently deal constant increased damage (yawn)
CRIT = Gambler who loves to see big numbers (raises hand)
Spell SPD = People who can't stay still for more than 5 seconds (Bard forum is -> way)

As for the mana tick factor, it is something to be considered. However, it is too inconsistent to be bothered with right now in my opinion. We'll see what happens.

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This doesn't make sense because SS is exponential. SS gains more value per point the more SS you already have, with the exception of getting capped by mechanics (mana ticks, animations).

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Crit is also exponential based on the damage you do per cast, while SS is based on GCD. Crit just has a tad higher exponential coefficient than SS based on the data.

I'll try to expand SS data some more when I can. You can check Crit's exponential rate by examining 'INT vs Crit vs DET' Page in a mean time.

Thanks for all your inputs. Sorry to have annoyed you, but people do have different opinions and perspectives on things.

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Originally Posted by PuroStrider

In the end they (CRIT, SS, DET) are all within a hundredth decimal point difference with current BiS gear when it comes to stat weighing.

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I looked at the graph you posted on reddit and it appeared that the valuation of DTR at any X value was roughly half of CRT/SS. Since DTR is itemized at a 50% more expensive item budget, that means DTR is significantly more effective for any gear trade. Did I interpret your graph incorrectly?

Edit: NVM, I was reading the graph incorrectly. Kept reading the "fey glow" line as DTR for some reason.

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Crit is also exponential based on the damage you do per cast, while SS is based on GCD. Crit just has a tad higher exponential coefficient than SS based on the data.

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Crit is not exponential. It's a linear 'geometric' increase (although my use of the term geometric is probably inaccurate from a pure mathematical standpoint) -- CRT's value diminishes if you stack more CRT, but increases when you stack other stats that increase the damage CRT is multiplying.

SS is exponential. Its value increases if you stack more SS.

This is a fundamental difference.

I'm 2 items away from SET B...now you tell me SET D is better...I hate you :(.

meh I will stick to set B since I like big numbers more anyway.

How much better is spellspeed than crit?

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

I'm 2 items away from SET B...now you tell me SET D is better...I hate you :(.

meh I will stick to set B since I like big numbers more anyway.

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Set D is Set B with more Myth gear, except for the 2 Hero accessories that you replace with Coil gear. Unless you started with those, you don't lose anything. Even if you did, unless and until you've got the Coil drops, that accessory will still be an upgrade for you.

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Originally Posted by Zenithx

How much better is spellspeed than crit?

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At Max gear about 4 DPS if you use the spreadsheet linked to compare BiS non-SS and BiS SS, with SS being the higher value.

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Originally Posted by TempestZane

I made a spreadsheet myself to compare gear choices between Allagan and Myth. With full Allagan + hero ring, you basicly have 406 acc.

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Btw what I find weird is that if i use the values you gave on stats converted to theoretical int, I get a BiS set that is actually not on your spreadsheet, since you have BiS sets that were based on the data you had before you SS research, and you have sets focussed on SS, but you dont have a purely BiS set with the new data.

The set I found as BiS was: (assuming stardust+1 as weapon, i did not look at allagan weapon)

Head: Myth
Chest: Myth
Gloves: Allagan/Myth (depends on how much accuracy you want)
Pants: Allagan
Belt: Allagan
Boots: Allagan/Myth (the same boots)
Necklace: Allagan
Earring: Allagan (only 0.6 theoretical int difference with myth)
Bracelet: Allagan
Ring1: Myth
Ring2: Allagan

Where the Allagan necklace/bracelet both are +1.42 theoretical int compared to myth

Don't feel discouraged just yet. I'm almost finish with my super in-dept 10 page essay on Crit vs Spell Speed based on new data.

I will then update BiS gear after that.

Hang on just a little longer. :)


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@Zenithx - Crit net worth varies depending on your average damage per cast in a fight. Spell Speed net worth varies with both your average damage and GCD number. So, their net worths will fluctuate depending on your gear. Spell Speed will always worth just a bit more every all cases though. Keep in mind that this is just a theoretical number. I wouldn't jump to any conclusion until you've looked at their effect in real-world application since the difference is very minute.

Finally finished my Spell Speed vs Crit analysis. It's over 13000 words long so I'm not gonna post it 13 times here.

Here's the link: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ed_with_super/

Have fun :D

Hey, thank you for your big and amazing work, in any case it seems to me it is. I say that because English is not my first language and its a little hard for me to follow... so i only have one question for you, Is this the Set B (Crit) or the Set D (SS) who is the best for DPS in general? To which one should i go now for the most efficient DPS in the majority of the encounters of the game for now, please?

So is it pretty much confirmed that there are no diminishing returns on stats?

What do you all consider BiS for BLM? I get mixed information that 2 star craft accessories are BiS for us, other say nay.

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Originally Posted by Psykloned

What do you all consider BiS for BLM? I get mixed information that 2 star craft accessories are BiS for us, other say nay.

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No crafted gear is BiS but you can make a strong argument for replacing Allagan Ring with Astral ring

Set B is the set I would like most because it's the "did you see that?!" set.

I know the gear section is under a revamp, but i still find it funny that your set 'poop' has higher dps than set A and C :P

IMHO, I would always go for SET B as the end of all BiS.

My reasons are as follow:

1- Easy to switch to SMN as soon as it is confirmed BLM will be the only job in the game to receive half ilvl95 weapon (no ilvl90 shield, no alternative for Relic +1).

2- I really think Burst is the most important thing BLM can bring to the table. Conflag is just an example, when 2 of the 4 DPS have to go under a fast Conflag and it is up to you to get them out, dat Fire III 1.55k Crit will make the difference.

3- SS can be replaced with experience and skills IMHO. On the other hand big numbers are only achieved through mixture of WD, INT, DET & Crit.

4- Myth is precious :(.

Wow, that is an awful lot of work, good job. Unfortunately, I didn't really get the gist of 99% of it so I'm going to ask you a silly question now - if I want to make myself a set of level 70 gear, roughly speaking, go for critical hit materia? No wait, I've just looked at it again, spell speed is priority no matter what level?

*edit* Oh also, is there an objectively best rotation for a single target with a lot of health, ie. not burst? I've seen so many people say slightly different methods, I really don't know what is best.

@Warchild_Zek - No diminishing return from what I can tell so far. Although there might be a hard cap for crit, but it's not reachable with current BiS gear anyhow.

@Everyone else inquiring about gear - I've been busy moving (and shopping :P) this past week. The updated gear page with have 3 different BiS sets (Crit vs DET vs SS) with in-depth damage/DPS analysis for each.

Stay tuned.

Thanks a ton man, really appreciate the hard work, and u definitely solved a lot of questions about BLM stuff.

Sorry to pester, but spell speed is the most important, yes? I mean it's right there in plain text, but I ask because it's the opposite of what 'everyone knew'.

PuroStrider be a total god and tell us the absolute -best- BiS for BLM. Or if you did already, I can't find where :(
(Not considering that Allagan weapon will be ilvl95 since we don't know it's future stat)

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Originally Posted by Cherub

PuroStrider be a total god and tell us the absolute -best- BiS for BLM. Or if you did already, I can't find where :(
(Not considering that Allagan weapon will be ilvl95 since we don't know it's future stat)

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It is SET B & D in the gear sheet.

I've been thinking a lot about BLM itemization since I hit full i90 tonight, and where I want to go. What I want to change, what I'm aiming for. Thinking about it, and what's needed of us, I think we should be valuing CHR the most. Note I used to hate CHR stacking, but hear me out before going, NO, THAT'S THEORETICALLY LESS DPS!!!

As strange as this sounds, I don't think looking at a theoretical highest sustained DPS is BiS for a BLM by standard. Our role in parties, why we are brought over SMN in particular, or another melee, is our big damage AoE, and our probably best-in-the-game burst damage for adds, trash, and mechanics which need breaking. It's hard to beat us in these departments, since we're ranged and have the tools for it. We're designed for it. This is where I see the current BiS lists have issues.

Currently it's theoretically SS > CHR > DET for max sustained DPS. Okay, that's all well and good. However, what will SS or DET in practice do for adds or AoE? Not much, if anything. A few extra points of damage won't make you reach a breakpoint where you go from 5 hits to kill an add to 4, in all likelihood. SS won't help much either, though it does help a little. What will help is getting a critical and in all probability taking off a GCD you need to kill the add or mechanic. Similarly for AoE, in many situations things that need AoE won't reach breakpoints where more DET will make you need one less attack before they die, whereas a quad Flare critting all over the place sure will.

The way I see it, since all the sub-stats do so little and work so closely compared to each other for our sustained DPS to the point where you won't even notice the difference between +20 DET or not, why focus on them to the .01% degree so much when our role in raid is big damage when needed? I think from this perspective, CHR > SS > DET is the proper order for our BiS, similarly to how SCHs and BRDs want to stack CHR for the unique bonus, and WHMs want to avoid stacking to have more consistent heals. We don't get a bonus proc off of our crits, but the whole raid feels it when you crit with your Fire III on a Conflag, or Garuda feathers come out and a portion of them die to your Flare.

All I'm saying is, if a BiS list gives 99.5% DPS of the best sustained DPS list, but has 5% more CHR, I'll take it gladly. In fact, if in a fight we crit an add and skip a GCD away from the primary boss, that's one of the highest additions to our sustained DPS possible. Unfortunately, stacking it isn't really possible yet, as I think the biggest boost in CHR is going for set C which is barely more than most sets. Fortunately for me, however, that's my ideal set in both looks and stats.

I like a good mix, as my lodestone shows. ;)

I want set B but I absolutely hate that fact that both pieces I need are from turn 4 and this week again, neither piece has dropped. Pant being a crucial piece makes me sad, almost wants me to get set D/F =_=

It seems food is absolutely necessary to reach 100% accuracy for Set B. Please tell me I am mistaken since I'm not the big food fan.

The only time you should really be concerned about Acc is Turn 5. And in Turn 5 you are also almost always should be concerned about Vit. Which means you should be concerned about food anyways.

You will submit to your Culinarian overlords and you will like it.

Sigh

/10char

So anyway, has anyone found out more information on the BLM ancient buckler? Where is it!?

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Originally Posted by Cherub

It seems food is absolutely necessary to reach 100% accuracy for Set B. Please tell me I am mistaken since I'm not the big food fan.

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Replace Allagan Gloves with Sorceror's Gloves. Lose 8 DET, gain 15 accuracy. However, there is no way you'll make up 14 Vitality without dropping stats somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Replace Allagan Gloves with Sorceror's Gloves. Lose 8 DET, gain 15 accuracy. However, there is no way you'll make up 14 Vitality without dropping stats somewhere else.

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I guess I'll go with the food then. Will have to pester my own personal culinarian for dat but fine.

Hey Puro, Im taking another shot at the ol potency equation, seeing if I can get something that kinda works for every class... lol, started discussing linear and matrix algebra in my math class and the muse just kinda hit me.

Right now I need more data points. Specifically I am looking for the following setup and methodology:
*Note, this is best done using a parser such as ACT or something that lets see you exactly how much of your damage was from crits...

So the testing methodology is very simple.
1. Pick your gear-set.
2. Write down your Weapon Damage, Intelligence, and Determination. I do not need Crit or Speed for this portion of the formula.
3. Find a lvl 1 target dummy and just spam Blizzard 3 on it for ~3 minutes. This is roughly 50 casts of B3, NONE of which should ever be done under AF3. UI3 does not affect B3 damage.
4. Using that parser, determine the average NON-CRIT damage for your B3 spam using your recorded stats.
This is important, since Crit is not in this analysis, every single critical hit must be removed from the calculation to maximize accuracy. This is where a parser like ACT comes in handy, so you can see how many times you crit, how much of your damage was non-crit, how many casts, and you can figure out how many non-crit casts you did to get your total non-crit damage.
5. Take your average non-crit B3 and divide by 220.

In the end you will have a dataset consisting of: [ Weapon Damage , Intelligence , Determination , Potency (B3/220) ]

At this time I only have 6 datasets, due to time constraints, farming for gear, and upcoming finals. These datasets are using the lvl 1 wand which has 8 magic damage, and going from naked - stacking ONLY Int with NO Det - then adding Det back in over 2-3 sets.
So, here is what my current little database looks like:

8 272 202 0.502409091
8 305 202 0.5515
8 325 202 0.587318182
8 351 202 0.624240909
8 389 226 0.688059091
8 416 246 0.737877273

When I have a little more time I will try to get some damage using a ~30 damage weapon, and later the 69 damage +1.
But for now more datasets using this VERY controlled method would be appreciated. With some luck, I can eek out a good general form for the raw damage portion of the equation, after that the effects of Crit and Speed are multiplicative with the damage... Throw in some partial differentiation... and we should have a system where you can put in your current stats, and the equations will spit out how much an increase of '1' in a given stat will increase your effective potency... crits and spell speed and all.
Then a lil tweaking... and with some more luck, this may (should) work for all classes... with slightly different coefficients.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

The only time you should really be concerned about Acc is Turn 5. And in Turn 5 you are also almost always should be concerned about Vit. Which means you should be concerned about food anyways.

You will submit to your Culinarian overlords and you will like it.

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You never realize exactly how important ACC is to BLM until you miss your Blizzard III, use Thunder II, then realize your Blizzard III missed and you have no MP left due to no Umbral Ice 3 mode.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Specifically I am looking for the following setup and methodology:

4. Using that parser, determine the average NON-CRIT damage for your B3 spam using your recorded stats.

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I recommend recording your minimum and your maximum non-crit damage (sidenote: pretty sure there's no crit variance in this game, so you could take crit damage and /1.5, but w/e, not a big deal). Then, take the average of your min and max non-crit damage (also report your min and your max damage).

Using a population average leads to unnecessary RNG and variance with the result. For testing something in an artificial system where we know there is a real specific formula (FF14 damage formula), there's no reason to average all the results.

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I can eek out a good general form for the raw damage portion of the equation,

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Don't forget the multiplier trait for BLMs when you begin comparing to other classes. You should probably include this up front in your BLM assessment.

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Throw in some partial differentiation... and we should have a system where you can put in your current stats, and the equations will spit out how much an increase of '1' in a given stat will increase your effective potency...

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Not gonna happen with intervals that small. No one's identified a fully accurate damage formula yet. So it goes.

If you're interested you should speak with Eien at chocobro. He's on something of a crusade to solve this.

Edit:

In terms of raw problem-solving, you will want the following:

1. 0 DTR, range of Int * range of WD
2. mid DTR, range of Int * range of WD
3. high DTR, range of Int * range of WD
4. Couple random data points for DTR at random intervals.

... well that should be everything tbh.

One of the problems is that it's resource-intensive to adjust your DTR fluidly with gear. You're talking using weird combinations of crafted gear, etc.

There is crit variance. If you have a WHM, try spamming Cure 2 until you get an Overcure proc then use Cure 3, Cure 3 will always crit, but not for the same value.

I'll take a look at the (max-min)/2 average, though that may require a LOT more than 50 casts to get a solid answer.

As far as equations and math... All damage mods appear to be upfront multiplication, so they should have the same effect on all of the coefficients if the model is constructed in a linear way... And some non-linearity can be built in by messing with value structures vs inputs... ie: A1*WD+A2*Int+A3*Det is linear, but (A1*WD+A2*Int/IntBase)*(1+A3*Det/DetBase) which isnt "quite" linear -> A1*WD + A2*(Int/BaseInt) + A1*A3*(WD*Det/DetBase) + A2*A3*(Int*Det/BaseInt/BaseDet) is linear, IF we claim that A1*A3 is A4 and A2*A3 is A5... Its a lil ugly, but it should work.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

There is crit variance. If you have a WHM, try spamming Cure 2 until you get an Overcure proc then use Cure 3, Cure 3 will always crit, but not for the same value.

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Not good enough*: there is a +/- 5% damage variance (I'm not 100% positive it's +/- 5%, but everyone says it is). As a result, it's expected that a flat *1.5x multiplier on crits will also reflect the +/- 5% variance. A variance on crit damage itself would result in more than a +/- 5% variance. This hasn't been demonstrated to my knowledge.

* Unless you're saying Cure 3 / heals in general have no variance.

Either way it's easy enough to ignore crits, regardless.

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All damage mods appear to be upfront multiplication,

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There is multiple partial pieces of evidence that DTR scales faster with high primary stat / WD. Linear scaling of everything also fails to match actual results for most peoples' datasets.

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I'll take a look at the (max-min)/2 average, though that may require a LOT more than 50 casts to get a solid answer.

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Max and mins take a hell of a lot fewer casts than trying to wash out RNG using an average of the population. You're talking 30 casts versus 200. Especially if you assume a specific variance (+/- 5% for example), and stop when you make a range wide enough to fit that.

FWIW I've brute-forced some random formulas across various datasets. The only conclusion I've seen is that DTR probably has a -202 adjustment.