Since you're dealing with a community it's the majority rule factor. All mmos create stories for people to get into. Majority of the people only read a few quests, skip most cut scenes etc. Since we're dealing with other people by being that one person or a few you're being rude and inconsiderate. I understand CS or meant to be watch but since that dungeon is MEANT to be ran multiple times how many times can you watch it? Since it's MEANT to be ran multiple times the majority rule comes in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ispano
So if you get in a group where majority of the people are doing a speed run and you decided to stay and slow everyone up how is that not being rude and inconsiderate? Same for people rushing a group with most of the people watching the cs? Doesn't matter what it's MEANT for it's how the majority of people are using it. Being the one rude self entitled person is what's ruining the community. I'm pretty sure DD wasn't meant to be used the way it is, but since the majority of people are doing that and isn't breaking ToS or anything the devs don't care. And the people killing the lambs are blisted, why? Because majority rules it's only fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivienne
This is why the community/DF is so terrible.
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09-29-2013, 10:39 AMFaedden
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09-29-2013, 10:40 AMispanoFalse, read the post above your reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
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09-29-2013, 10:48 AMRyuko
If you want to do something fast, you don't queue up for DF. If you queue up for DF, you are taking the chance that there will be someone who is new who wants to watch the CS's. This might happen or it might not... but IF it does, you need to respect their right to enjoy the story. What other choice do they have? Casuals don't have the time to find a full group of people who want to run the dungeon for them. They probably don't even have an LS/FC that is around enough to do that.
If you want to do speed runs, prebuild a group. If you can't find eight people, shout for more, or deal with the fact that the extra spots MAY be people who want to watch the cutscenes. Anyone who accuses someone of being 'selfish' because they want to watch a story cutscene in a story dungeon has got it all wrong. YOU are being selfish for expecting someone to RUIN the story for themselves because YOU don't feel like waiting one minute or less. So what if 'the majority of people don't pay attention to the story'? I do, and so do others... I personally think it's the best part of the MMO.
To others saying that jerky players tend to be well-geared (relic/DL/AFv2), I dislike this blanket statement because I am well-geared but not a jerk. As I said, if I want a speed run... it's up to ME to build the party or deal with the fact that random DF pugs might want to watch cutscenes. -
09-29-2013, 10:56 AMFaeddenYou do realize that casuals also want tomes too right? And that they don't have time to find a full group. You need to respect their right to do speed runs so they can get their gear. What other choice do hey have? They probably dont even have an LS/FS that is around enough to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuko
All cut scenes can be watched in the inn. Majority rules, if you're in a group were the majority wants to speed run, then either leave or suck it up. If you're in a group were the majority wants to watch the scenes then either leave or suck it up. Regardless of what excuse you guys come up with being that ONE or FEW people to be rude is WRONG. Just because it's what YOU want to do and not the majority doesn't make it right. And since the majority of people are using DF to do speed runs it is what it is. -
09-29-2013, 11:01 AMispanoBecause you or even the majority don't get to decide what a DF run is. That's the flaw you can't seem to get past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
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09-29-2013, 11:01 AM10TailBeast
The community will ultimately decide whether this game lives or dies. No amount of fixes on SE's end will change that. Right now, the game is headed for a bad place.
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09-29-2013, 11:27 AMRyuko
Faedden, when I talk about 'casuals', I am not referring to the ones who have already beaten the storyline and are farming tomes. I'm referring to people who have so little time to play the game that their only option, really, is to queue for DF to finish the story. Telling them to 'watch it in the inn because you're wasting my time' just doesn't cut it. They have every right to watch the cutscenes, whether you like it or not. There is no restriction one way or another (either for or against this), which is why this argument keeps popping up. For example, look at the facts below...
1) There IS an option to skip cutscenes (SE does not force you to watch them).
2) The timer of a dungeon keeps running whether or not you are in a cutscene.
3) It is possible to 'lock' people out of boss fights by engaging the boss before everyone is in the room.
4) It is possible to start/trigger a boss fight while people are still in cutscenes.
With that said...
1) A person who wants to watch the CS is invulnerable while in a CS.
2) There is no option to kick people. Majority doesn't rule unless the majority decides to 'leave'.
3) A person who wants to watch the cutscenes can do so without any consequences... they can even AFK if you are being rude to them.
I agree that there should be more options to get your tomes than the storyline dungeons, but while that is our ONLY option to farm tomes... how about being nice to the people who are just trying to enjoy the game? Majority doesn't rule because majority CAN'T RULE. It's a lawless jungle in DF right now. With the exception of griefers (people who afk or mpk people just to troll you), most people are nice until provoked. Sometimes, you cause more trouble by raging at a person watching a cutscene than if you just let them watch their cutscene and continued on your way. There are very few 'pre-fight' long cutscenes. Any cutscenes that happen AFTER a fight could be enjoyed by the person doing the dungeon for the first time while the rest of the group continued clearing trash (which needs to happen anyway). -
09-29-2013, 11:27 AMRivienneFair? There is nothing fair about what you are proposing.... That is what you don't seem to understand. Let me try to state this in a clear way, why your perception of this is incorrect. Please, let go of your preconceptions on this instead of rejecting it outright, because even if everything else you said held true (which it does not), you are forgetting the nature of the duty finder and what it means to tell someone to quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedden
If I am a new DPS, I join up for the first time. I have to wait 3 hours to get in. But the group wants to do a speed run, so if majority rules, I have to quit. Queue up again. 3 hours, get in. Majority rules, I have to quit. Queue 3 hours. I have to quit. Repeat, maybe for days, till I find a group that is okay with letting me play the game I bought.
You see the problem? By saying they are being inconsiderate for wanting to experience it in full for the first time, you also are saying you don't care if they ever play the dungeon because it might inconvenience someone else.
Your proposed majority rule would ensure that many new players could never play these dungeons end game, or even get there. It could cost them literally days, whereas it will cost you only 60 minutes.
That is the problem with your argument here. In fact, by stating that your 1 hour is more important than their potentially 3, 6, 9, even 12 hours, you are being far far more inconsiderate to that one person, then they ever could be to you by watching the cut-scenes.
Hopefully you understand this now, and why it is so detrimental to the community to keep holding on to this idea. -
09-29-2013, 11:32 AMToranjaNo. Learning to accept the vile behaviour is the first step to keep things as they are. Things need to be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte
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09-29-2013, 11:33 AMFaeddenMe PERSONALLY(since you said "you" idk if that was referring to me or just in general) I don't care either way. Yep I find it annoying when one or even a few or even all people are watching the cut scenes but I can either leave or deal with it. I suck it up because it's not that huge of a deal to me. I think it's stupid to have cs in the middle of dungeons but whatever. I never EVER EVER will tell someone to hurry up or skip the cs even if it's just one person. And when people start raging at whoever causes us to wipe or watch the cs I ALWAYS stand up for that person cause to me this game sucks (please don't kill me) it's just meh I don't see what's the deal with all the rage from everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuko
There's still casuals with little time that have finished the quest that wants their tomes as well, why are they counted out? There's always a majority (Of course except for trolls) and that's what people need to understand. You can always leave if it's not something you want to do. The same options people give for speed runners are the same options that people who don't want too speed run can use as well. But everyone wants to be "me,me,me,me, my way, my way, my way" when it just cant be that way when you play with other people.
And that's when all the suggestions all the people who don't want the speed runners to use the DF come in. Regardless of what is was MEANT for that isn't how people are using it. When in Rome do as the Romans. I'm not saying my hour or anything is more important. I've been in groups where majority of the people were watching the cs. Never said a word about it, hinted, suggested or anything. I don't see what's so wrong with watching it in the inn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivienne