[Discussion] The Pugilist of the Future!

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Not sure what this kinda OK tank is about. Just Wednesday I tanked the Buffalo nm for our LS. I didn't have a hard time at all really. What I can't do is tank NMs that have multiple mobs attached (like Gobby, Mosshorn) because evasion is meaningless since there are so many and when I am hit I can't take too many. 1 on 1 I can tank anything so far.

One the hate algorithm is adjusted and they remove the stamina bar (which I am just GUESSING they will do) I think it will be that much easier to tank. That is if its the direction the class is going to take. I can't but wonder if we will become akin to ninja tanks from 11 if we get more shadows with featherfoot. Again, just conjecture.

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Frame of reference bias. I tanked the great buffalo with 15 vitality for 4 minutes just messing around. On conjurer. With R35 body armor on.
The conclusion isn't that pug is a great tank. It's that there really aren't situations in the game that call for great tanks. I have no doubt in my mind that conjurer is an awesome tank, if by awesome you mean can tank great buffalo with no issues. Again, I wasn't even trying. I was the opposite of trying.

Honestly when those situations arise, the thaumaturge is a safer tank than pugilist is, and every meleer would perform about the same--that is, very poorly.

Pug isn't going to get any points for being an eva tank or an off tank. It's just not a worthwhile or functional role. It's one thing to say it, and another thing to mistake accomplishing it with being great at it compared to anyone else.

It's another to actually be it. Ninja was an evasion tank. Pugilist is a blood tank with bad gear options.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Frame of reference bias. I tanked the great buffalo with 15 vitality for 4 minutes just messing around. On conjurer. With R35 body armor on.
The conclusion isn't that pug is a great tank. It's that there really aren't situations in the game that call for great tanks. I have no doubt in my mind that conjurer is an awesome tank, if by awesome you mean can tank great buffalo with no issues. Again, I wasn't even trying. I was the opposite of trying.

Honestly when those situations arise, the thaumaturge is a safer tank than pugilist is, and every meleer would perform about the same--that is, very poorly.

Pug isn't going to get any points for being an eva tank or an off tank. It's just not a worthwhile or functional role. It's one thing to say it, and another thing to mistake accomplishing it with being great at it compared to anyone else.

It's another to actually be it. Ninja was an evasion tank. Pugilist is a blood tank with bad gear options.

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pugilist isnt as bad a tank as you think, evasion is a much more noticeable skill in this game. and light strike+ concussive blow/ feather foot/ evasion gear can make you able to tank even fairly hard monsters, some more than others, I dont think it can mess with glad in straight damage mitigation, but it has its uses. That said, we really would have to test it with a tank built pug, on high level monsters, stuff like 14-20 levels higher. dont underestimate having a 30 point difference in parrying and a shitload more evasion for tanking.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Frame of reference bias.

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Or from fact of doing it would be a more appropriate perspective?

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I tanked the great buffalo with 15 vitality for 4 minutes just messing around. On conjurer. With R35 body armor on.
The conclusion isn't that pug is a great tank. It's that there really aren't situations in the game that call for great tanks. I have no doubt in my mind that conjurer is an awesome tank, if by awesome you mean can tank great buffalo with no issues. Again, I wasn't even trying. I was the opposite of trying.

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Irrelevant - we're talking about if pug can tank or not. It can and easily so.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Honestly when those situations arise, the thaumaturge is a safer tank than pugilist is, and every meleer would perform about the same--that is, very poorly.

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Irrelevant - we're talking about if pug can tank or not. It can and easily so.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Pug isn't going to get any points for being an eva tank or an off tank. It's just not a worthwhile or functional role. It's one thing to say it, and another thing to mistake accomplishing it with being great at it compared to anyone else.

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Or again, the fact of the matter is I was called to tank Buffalo and did so without problem leaving the other members to fill other roles. I'm not sure why you're bringing any of this up when the frame of reference was can or can it not tank. Not is it the best.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

It's another to actually be it. Ninja was an evasion tank. Pugilist is a blood tank with bad gear options.

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Again, was there a comparison in the vein you are talking about or are you wasting our theoretically discussion of what we'd like for pug to become for a chance to be some kind of bizarre know-it-all? We're talking about what can pug do and what can't it do. We're talking about what we'd like it to become and what needs to get better. Not if its the best or is something else better.

FFS...

Physic & Vackashken
Just ignore them, they do nothing but argue their opinions no matter how invalid and will continue to do so for pages even if they are the only one supporting the opinion. It's best not to feed creatures living under bridges.

Lol how is the fact that conjurer can tank the great buffalo without even trying "irrelevant" when pugilists bring that situation up as evidence that they're great tanks?

Like I said, it's not what you can do. It's what you can do that others can't. And honestly there's nothing a pugilist can tank that any other job, forget gladiator altogether, can't. Well I might add.

If this pugilist showed up to FF11 and said hay guyz I can tank it'd be laughed off the field. No it can't.

Everyone can tank. Big difference. Don't mistake that for pug being a good tank.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Lol how is the fact that conjurer can tank the great buffalo without even trying "irrelevant" when pugilists bring that situation up as evidence that they're great tanks?

Like I said, it's not what you can do. It's what you can do that others can't. And honestly there's nothing a pugilist can tank that any other job, forget gladiator altogether, can't. Well I might add.

If this pugilist showed up to FF11 and said hay guyz I can tank it'd be laughed off the field. No it can't.

Everyone can tank. Big difference. Don't mistake that for pug being a good tank.

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No one cares about what you have to say. Literally.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

No one cares about what you have to say. Literally.

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I'm just telling you the truth, I really don't care if you like it or care about it. Better hear it from me now than people who start to laugh at you the more you posture that pugilist is an eva tank. You're an eva tank...in the context of an even match puk fight where the puk misses while featherfoot is up, then dies before it can weaponskill. If the fight lasts more than three hits, you're just a gladiator with horrible gear.

I know how much HP per second it takes to keep you alive. Stop kidding yourself before teams make you stop kidding yourself. You're as good a tank as any other meleer. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can start asking pugilist to actually gain some assets worth inviting.

Pugilist is a DD, not a tank. Stop messing around.
Pugilist has no future other than king of DPS.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

No one cares about what you have to say. Literally.

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seriously man, just ignore them
they posted 2 paragraphs in response to your 1 sentence, clearly unstable

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Originally Posted by Akuun

seriously man, just ignore them
they posted 2 paragraphs in response to your 1 sentence, clearly unstable

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Head IN the sand.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I don't know about you guys, but Ill say again that I started pugilist to be a DD.
Now they might give us the choice if we want to be Tanks or DDs depending on stat distribution and gear choice, but If I had this choice I would go for damage dealing cause that's what I wanna play.
I was very proud of my Monk's damage potential in FF11 and I wanna see this again in FF14...

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I'm wondering if in the upcoming variation pug will become the tank version and "mnk" (whatever it might be called) will be the DD brand.