[dev1002] The entire world lacking as a battle environment.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

I read all the post and i knew i would get to this one lol... XIV fanboy attack! they will defend and attack this game blindly ignoring the fact that the game is obviously failing.
These are the ppl you ignor, because these are the ones that would see the game bleed to death.
Remeber that SE is a buisness and making money is greatly determined by the fans that are willing to pay and atm we are not, they know this.
So again ignor this idiot, his post shouldnt be there long with all the negitive comments "gtfo's,stfu's" ect ect ect i liked your post and if its read by thoes in charge i think if they're smart, they will realize thats the fans they wanna capture, not this idiot.
I like your post rather a XI fan or not FF fans in general probably would agree ^^

Edit! sogiya wow the moderator has let you get away with a ton i see after reading your post, seems you have a bad attitude and asshole disorder get over yourself and stop attacking ppl it wont make you feel better when you look around your room or in the mirror guy.

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as i been reading what been posted here i feel he right. see i loved FF11 when i played it but i just dont want the same game over again. yea some of the the thing in this game were change from FF11 just to be diffrent but to just change them to what was in FF11 may not be the best answer.

the death penalty in FFXI was an attempt to mimic dieing in a single player game and losing all your progress.

it really didn't work and the only thing it actually punished you for was not having a White Mage glued to your side at all times.

the primary function of a death penalty is to keep people from zombie zerging, you've already lost the transit time of getting back to where you need to go as well as the embarrassment of getting your ass handed to you. 2.5 min of down time, where in you have to stop and re-think what you did, is plenty enough mechanic as it is. more often than not the only times people die is during a a leavequest: please justify potentially losing a level in the middle of a time dependent quest that is already giving you trouble. or even just cranking up the debuff time: how about spending 1/3 of your allotted quest time (thats only 10 min BTW) licking your wounds? that doesn't sound fun, does it?

sure, you may have liked something in another game, but that is not this game and it's not natively guaranteed that it will work well in THIS environment.

think about it, where would you even begin to start implementing this? would the XP loss come from Physical level, job level, or both? if Physical level how would you handle the conflict between leveling down and the attribute points that they have already spent?

are you going to revoke them? but that opens up an exploit that people could intentionally down level as a means to reset their stats, you can't really let them keep them (stat points), other wise people would down level so as to make glinted characters (stats in excess of character level), and be able to kill lowlevel opponents as if they were still a high level, but with the loot rewards of a low level.

not leveling down characters due to XP loss opens the door for players to zombie zerg: it's not real loss so long as they have just leveled / don't have much XP invested in the current level. if thats the case why even have a death penalty if players can maneuver themselves into a position that nullifies the penalty of it.

ok, so you set the XP loss to job XP!

what about non combat jobs? your penalizing failure in combat, but those classes don't accrue XP through combat, you gonna subtract XP from a crafter for failing their synthesis?

miners/botanists/fishers aren't exactly helpless and it's not like they have to go back to town to switch to a combat class but what if they get blindsided by something they can't handle: your taking away XP that they had to farm up at collection points simply because they failed at something they naturally aren't good at?!?!

there is more to things than just "hey that was pretty fun in XI, port it on over!" because THIS ISN'T FFXI, things worked in that game because it was that game! even something as simple and benign as mog houses can't be exactly as there were in FFXI because this isn't FFXI: how would you handle furniture crafting ... oops, there's a whole new class right there with a massive number of new items that will need database entries, crafting recipes, in game models, and a massive addition to the UI for players to be able to drop said items where they want them.

-just so that housing isn't an exercise in sitting inside a big box-

2.5 min weakness is the next best thing to a 2.5 min re-spawn timer, personally I'm kinda thankful that they didn't make us sit there and watch our characters rot for two and a half minutes.

so yes, leave FFXI out of this! you want a new feature, think up a new feature. if you liked something from FFXI, think up how to simulate that feature inside THIS NEW GAME! stop screaming about how great "X" was in FFXI, this isn't FFXI and your fundamentally being no different one of those WoW-tards whining about how every game should have blood elves. It doesn't matter if both of these games are from the same company, it doesn't matter if both of these games are from the same IP universe, it doesn't matter if much of the mechanics of FFXIV are poorly implemented (they are, I freely admit it).

This is not FFXI, so shut up about how it needs "X","Y", and "Z" from FFXI and everything will be all better 'cause nothing is drag and drop between the two. if you really want something from FFXI in FFXIV, go the extra mile and figure out HOW to put it into the game without adversely effecting something else! if you really can't do it without altering something, then go that extra mile, and figure out how to change what would be needed to be changed so that what you want CAN work.

Once again ppl trolling without properly reading posts, your English grades or wtv language you are native to must be realy low, cus your interpretation skills are low as hell.

A guy says, we need adventure, accomplishment and challenge, you read "we want a clone"... Seriously?... He said that removing difficulty on a game removes the sense of accomplishment and purpose and you read, "we want the same features as ff xi". There a million ways of making a game exiting and challenging... the was never about features but Ideals is it so hard to understand the concept of an Ideal?

The xp penalty was just a freaking example... Learn to read. So far the only ppl that talked about cloning ff xi were you guys that are trolling around on the thread... Every one else just said, we suport/ do not support final fantasy ideals. Se it these way, the description the op made is the same description that could be done about any final fantasy tittle, fun, challenging, rewarding etc etc.

To sum it up, start paying attention to school will yah? if you can't read properly how the hell do you want to communicate with others?

I would have been more happy with a clone of FFXI battle system and just new story grafix missions

Very well written post from OP, completely captures the ideal of having consequences at the forefront of every action taken in what should be a deep word. It resonates with me even further having the carbon copy experience for a Windurst Taru BLM. That said, at any level threats should be present to maintain a sense of encouragement to further develop one's character or battle strategies, or even simply to find friends in common interest (i.e. party headed to Jeuno).

A pertinent question should be: Can the second Final Fantasy Online (FFXIV) afford to not be the second FFXI (FFXI-2)? In my experienced opinion since FFXIV alpha, there is too much FFXI chemistry left unused or ignored in an effort to touch base with a larger community outside of FFXIs fanbase. Which seems to me as a betrayal of the FF name, if those who don't want FFXI-2 you must realize that your even playing the same races...its inevitable that it comes with the feel of a 'spinoff' thats what Final Fantasy is, a long standing tweaked formula.

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what about non combat jobs? your penalizing failure in combat, but those classes don't accrue XP through combat, you gonna subtract XP from a crafter for failing their synthesis?

miners/botanists/fishers aren't exactly helpless and it's not like they have to go back to town to switch to a combat class but what if they get blindsided by something they can't handle: your taking away XP that they had to farm up at collection points simply because they failed at something they naturally aren't good at?!?!

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Gatherers and Crafters have no business around aggressive areas unless under a quest which should have ample safe routes. Crafters already loose all materials for a failed synth, and should not loose SP/XP. Gathering in high level areas comes with the risk of dying for high tier materials, death should incur losses as the jobs innately have no reprimand (weakness means nothing for gatherers) other than loosing prospective fish/ores/wood.

The only purpose of death penalty in these games is to mask lack of content by slowing your progression. In turn the suits hope this mechanic keeps you playing longer thus paying the sub longer. Give us real content not a superficial mechanic that only exists to hide the lack of content.

Posted this in the SP loss thread. Bringing it hear since it seems to be relevant:

I've been playing MMOS since UO launch and experienced full loot PvP etc etc. To put it simply the mechanic does not make the game fun. In FFXI I have been in parties where I had lost entire levels which could mean a full weeks worth of work (before SE made it easy mode level up) all because one person in the group was a bad player. That wasn't fun and I don't have fond memories of it. Before you say anything about just tossing that player that was back when people were standing around for 5 hours just LFG to level so tossing some one right away for being a bad player wasn't really an option. While I have had fun in the past in games with harsh death penalties the penalties themselves in no way made the game more fun. A lot of people have also said "it makes it exciting" or "It gives me a rush" but the first thing I learned in those games was that getting "excited" or getting "a rush" often led to making mistakes. So the first step to becoming a better player was not feelling that way. Instead I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment to which the threat of losing a level or gear had no effect on.

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Originally Posted by Dragonhand

Once again ppl trolling without properly reading posts, your English grades or wtv language you are native to must be realy low, cus your interpretation skills are low as hell.

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... no, it's not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Dragonhand

A guy says, we need adventure, accomplishment and challenge, you read "we want a clone"... Seriously?... He said that removing difficulty on a game removes the sense of accomplishment and purpose and you read, "we want the same features as ff xi". There a million ways of making a game exiting and challenging... the was never about features but Ideals is it so hard to understand the concept of an Ideal?

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He said listen to a song, preceded by an (admittedly well written) reminiscent tale extolling the virtues of being curb stomped by low level mobs.

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Originally Posted by SogiYa

the death penalty in FFXI was an attempt to mimic dieing in a single player game and losing all your progress.

it really didn't work and the only thing it actually punished you for was not having a White Mage glued to your side at all times.

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I played FFXI for years and rarely had a White Mage at my side. I also rarely died. You're just a simpleton.
The fact that you later go on to claim that you "have trouble with leves" is just embarrassing.

Where would I begin to implement an XP penalty for death? Well, Professor, I would start by having it replace the SP fatigue system, which punishes me for being alive. Gee, that was difficult.

Congratulations on your Maats cap, Boricua! (*'-')b

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

I played FFXI for years and rarely had a White Mage at my side. I also rarely died. You're just a simpleton.
The fact that you later go on to claim that you "have trouble with leves" is just embarrassing.

Where would I begin to implement an XP penalty for death? Well, Professor, I would start by having it replace the SP fatigue system, which punishes me for being alive. Gee, that was difficult.

Congratulations on your Maats cap, Boricua! (*'-')b

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Both harsh death penalty and fatigue are superficial systems designed to slow your progress to hopefully keep you playing longer and both are lame. Instead of coming up with more ways to mask lack of content by adding features that are not fun why not just add content that is fun?

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

The fact that you later go on to claim that you "have trouble with leves" is just embarrassing.

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wait ... what?

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

You're just a simpleton.

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... and yet you can't even pick up the context of hypothetically getting killed while doing a leavequest?

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Originally Posted by Xzen

Both harsh death penalty and fatigue are superficial systems designed to slow your progress to hopefully keep you playing longer and both are lame. Instead of coming up with more ways to mask lack of content by adding features that are not fun why not just add content that is fun?

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Zombie Zerg ... the developers don't want people exploiting the rez system to overcome content that exceeds what they -should not- be capable of. it's kind of a marginal risk that players would actually be able to get back to a partially killed opponent after respawning back at camp, but I'm sure you can see the possible problems associated with a bunch of hyper low levels power leveling by sneaking into a high level area and then killing things by pecking away at it a little bit at a time between rezez.

that 2.5 downtime isn't to slow you down as a punishment, it's there to give whatever it is you died against time to get back to full health. how much of a punishment is that really when your farming something that takes 4 minutes of run time to get to?

while -real- players exploiting the system like that is just kind of a minor annoyance to the developers ('cause it's not supposed to be done like that) the -real- problem would be botters exploiting it to quickly powerlevel replacement farm bots so that they can be used in high level areas after other farm bots got caught and baned.