Please give Paladin access to Pugilist skill tree instead of Conjurer.

I don't know why this information is in my head, but I thought MND was a more important attribute for PLDs than it is now because it increased Healing Magic Potency and Magic Def. But I guess it is not the case anymore. Are these feelings within the community a result of most tanks plugging purely STR/VIT? I should also add that I have been out of it for a while.

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Originally Posted by JudgeDredd

I don't know why this information is in my head, but I thought MND was a more important attribute for PLDs than it is now because it increased Healing Magic Potency and Magic Def. But I guess it is not the case anymore. Are these feelings within the community a result of most tanks plugging purely STR/VIT?

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I see it more as a result of the transition from XI's outlook on PLD to the approach XIV has taken. Someone in the other forums put it best when they said that even as far back as FFIV a paladin's magic was mostly lackluster but not game-breaking (don't remember the exact quote, but went along the lines of "Cecil having white magic was not for heals because his heals were LOL, but because it saved the party one turn by having him cast Protect and saving Rosa that turn).

XIV's PLD follows this idea in that your bread and butter for aggro is sword skills and stuff like Flash. CNJ skills are utility that don't break the job when not in use.

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Originally Posted by JudgeDredd

I don't know why this information is in my head, but I thought MND was a more important attribute for PLDs than it is now because it increased Healing Magic Potency and Magic Def. But I guess it is not the case anymore. Are these feelings within the community a result of most tanks plugging purely STR/VIT? I should also add that I have been out of it for a while.

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MND used to be an important stat in 1.20+ because it was a damage modifier on top of increasing healing potency. In ARR you'll probably see higher practical returns by increasing STR and VIT than boosting MND with the current potency/utility of Cure.

Every class use the CNJ skills, it's not exclusively for Paladin and neither are the rest of the shared skills really.
I'm not understanding what you would want from the Monk tree, Second wind instantly heals you for 15% and is for everyone's use. Feather foot increases evasion. Great skills for a tank.
Paladin can already keep itself alive better than just about all the other classes.
If you're looking for damage dealing skills it wouldn't make sense because you aren't meant to be dealing amazing damage.
You also need to keep in mind if you're healing more damage than you're taking you would be unable to die, balance.
Pugilist actually has useful share skills and Gladiator doesn't. I would be more worried about what skills they would allow Gladiator to share than any other class at the moment.

Edit: I'm pretty sure Jobs are supposed to be used in parties and your party mates are supposed to cover your weaknesses which is why you get less slots as a job and more without.
These things would fall along the lines of : Why would the tank be casting cure instead of doing more damage/Keeping mobs on them when there is a dedicated healer?

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

MND used to be an important stat in 1.20+ because it was a damage modifier on top of increasing healing potency. In ARR you'll probably see higher practical returns by increasing STR and VIT than boosting MND with the current potency/utility of Cure.

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Would reverting this change add or lessen the problem? Foreseeably Cure potency would increase, but you would have to distribute points to another attribute potentially weakening the whole. Am I going about this wrong way or are people upset with a design decision that conflicts with lore?

We get abilities like Rampart, Sentinel and Bulwark, on top of Shield oath at 35. We also get access to Foresight from MRD. Warrior does not get access to any of those skills from Gladiator. It only has foresight from MRD(which is only a defense boost). It doesn't get access to strait damage taken- skills its tanking skill gets +HP not -damage. Warrior also doesn't get a skill like Sword oath which increases auto attack damage. We do.

WAR can access Flash and Provoke from Gladiator, the rest won't help it tank. WAR needs the evasion boost from Pugilist. We kind of don't since some of our skills are activated after we shield block. Can't do that if we evade. The heal from second wind i think is actually less than what we can cure for given the cooldown of second wind and the fact we can restore MP with riot blade.

@ Nuzuchi

You seem to be forgetting that once you equip your soul crystal, you are unable to use abilities from all classes. You'll only have access to abilities from certain classes. A Paladin can only use certain abilities from Marauder and Conjurer, not Pugilist. Also, due to the long casting time, the chance of being interrupted, the MP cost, and the low potency, there's no possible way that a Paladin's Cure I is going to keep them alive during any real fight.

The OP isn't asking to deal "amazing damage", he's simply saying that Pugilist abilities would help mitigate some damage, in addition to aiding in enmity generation. Which he thinks would be more useful than Protect, Raise and the pathetic Cure I.

We can only hope that when the level cap is increased that YoshiP&Co. start giving us "SubJob" specific traits and more "Paladin" skills. If we look at the XI Paladin we do not really have much less in terms of skills we had @75. Yes Protect should have a trait that buffs it for the Paladin. Saying "The WHM will bring Pro/Shell" is just not an acceptable excuse. Especially when you have a second healer that has no access to the Shell portion of the buff. You can complain that Protect from a Paladin is only slightly better than not having it at all, but don't complain that we don't use the spell if there is a WHM/CNJ in the group is not a valid complaint. Yes, there should be more than what you get from CNJ. But there is nothing there a Paladin would want anyway. You can complain that Paladin should have access to a version of Holy that is more like XI's quick cast time high cost midlevel nuke.

TLDR: Stop complaining that Paladin get very little from CNJ. Complain that what the do get needs to be enhanced by Paladin only traits. Protect needs to be the Pro/Shell WHM get & Cure should be given a cast speed enhancement to allow Paladin's to be more mobile and use the spell.

I'm confused... I keep seeing all these posts starting up about how PLD > WAR, but now people are complaining that PLD needs to be more like WAR and have access to the PUG tree.

Make up your minds already.

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Originally Posted by niwaar

Yes Protect should have a trait that buffs it for the Paladin. Saying "The WHM will bring Pro/Shell" is just not an acceptable excuse. Especially when you have a second healer that has no access to the Shell portion of the buff.

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What I see happening is the Def and M.Def buff from Protect becoming baseline, with some other perk replacing the trait CNJ currently has. Never occurred to me that SCH would miss out on Pro/Shell.