I don't have a problem with those things either, as they're not what I was talking/asking about. Sugarcoating is needlessly making things restrictive/played down for fear of upsetting someone. I'm talking about the overall treatment, portrayal and behaviour towards female avatars, in particular, not being on a par with males. If you mean it isn't sugarcoated in the sense that women are harassed in real life therefore it's fine that they're harassed in-game, too, then fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibo
They're not doing just whatever players ask for without concern; they've said they're most likely not going to implement same-sex marriage, even though polls have indicated more people want it than don't want it. There is clearly a concious decision being made on the direction of the game. To me, it's just cherry picking what's a 'serious' issue. And besides, I would like to think they have some morals and ideas of what they want for the game, regardless of what players ask for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
Where is FFXIV headed in terms of sexism?
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11-13-2012, 01:18 AMLaiferr
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11-13-2012, 01:23 AMArcell
Honestly, FFXIV is probably the best about it out of all the MMOs I've seen. Skimpy female gear is, in most cases, just as skimpy on males. There are a few exceptions like the coatee, DRG body and BRD body but off the top of my head I think that's it. Compared to most other MMOs out there it's fairly tame. In most cases gear looks quite similar between the genders.
Not to mention the skimpy gear isn't even all that great. The Coliseum stuff is alright and can be melded but there's always more modest stuff that is better or cheaper that can be melded in the same slot. As long as it's not the undisputed best in slot gear I think it's fine.
About the hairstyle picture, yeah you've got me there. Even I was a little disappointed at their random choice to just use that gear. -
11-13-2012, 01:24 AMAdvancedWindUhh, what polls exactly? Because I can clearly remember quite a few threads asking for more "lewd" gear, many of them with hudreds of posts and likes, posted several times since the forums opened but I only really saw one or two threads on same-sex marriage (something that I have no problem with, actually) before it was officially mentioned by Yoshi-P, and even with all that "pressure" only resulted in the colliseum gear set and swimsuits as "practical results" up to this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laiferr
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11-13-2012, 01:26 AMSaiph
It's only sexism when female are being affected by it!
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11-13-2012, 01:29 AMRoaran
The very simple solution is this:
Provide skimpy attire, crafted 'equipment' that has no desireability beyond the skimpiness alone.
Keep high quality dungeon gear similar across the sexes. -
11-13-2012, 01:30 AMRyuko
Alright, as a female who plays this game regularly, I'll answer your questions.
- Are you concerned about female objectification?
Not really, because the current gear options don't bother me much, and we have other options. For example: I remember a few months ago when one person made a post about how offended they were with Colosseum gear. Well, I can understand why they don't like it, and why they don't want to wear it, but no one is forcing them to wear it. It is a choice. There are plenty of viable options. Some people chose to double/triple meld the pants as a good alternative to other BLM gear. This is their choice, because 5 AMP, 5 Fire Resistance and 30 MP (the base stats on unmelded Colosseum mage pants) isn't going to make all the difference.
- Are you concerned with how far the FFXIV team will go with sexism?
No. As others have said, I'm okay with what they choose to do in a fantasy world, because there are options. All of the AF gear is pretty similar between the two sexes, with very small differences. For example, the BRD AF, although a bit revealing, is done tastefully, with cloth draping over a female's shoulders. You could say the AF is noticeably feminine, but males wear basically the same thing (without the shoulders revealed, if I am not mistaken).
I actually think the fact that they will allow you to choose breast size is something that empowers me, as a woman. For once, I am not forced to stare at unrealistically huge breasts if I don't want to. If someone wants big breasts, they can choose them. If someone wants small breasts, they can choose them too. We're not all forced to deal with one option, which in videogames nowadays, is usually big bouncy breasts. Now, the 'bounciness' is realistic to a certain extent. Unless a woman with big breasts is wearing a sports bra, they can and will bounce slightly. Games often take this to the next level, and FFXIV wouldn't be alone in this. I'm hoping that changing the size of the breasts will also reduce the 'bounciness' as someone with small breasts isn't going to be bouncing all over the place.
- Does it in any way effect your enjoyment of the game?
Not at all. Like I said, there are options, and if someone wants to dress a certain way, they should be able to. If this were 'real life', we would shame someone for walking down the street completely revealed... but it's not real life, and people have freedom. I understand that not all gear is presented the same way on male and female characters, but there are a few notable pieces of gear that look quite revealing on men... such as the subligars. A lot of male players I know wear the subligars because they think it's hilarious. They don't put much stock into what is or isn't revealed on their character. I understand this might be something that is more sensitive to females, but it isn't their only choice.
- Has it ever effected how you have been treated as a female avatar?
Not personally. I play mages, but I also have no desire to look 'revealing'. Because I missed the summer event, it is literally impossible for me to wear skimpy clothing. I still have that default mi'qote gear underneath everything, and that is VERY covering... even more than underwear and a bra would be. No one has ever treated me differently because of my gear, even when I am wearing subligars and leveling a melee character.
Many people who choose to play female avatars are not actually female. In fact, even though I am mi'qote, people often refer to me as a 'he' by default. I will correct them (politely), and they will apologize, and now they know I'm female, but the majority of female avatars are actually male... and I've yet to see any sexist comments about gear.
On that note, I don't go out of my way to reveal I am female unless I need to correct someone, or unless I have become particularly close to someone... simply because my experience in other MMO's (FFXI and FFXIV excluded) where people DID treat me differently because I was female... and not in a bad way. In fact, when I would reveal I was female, people would trip over themselves to pass me good gear, help me out, etc... and even though this worked to my advantage, I didn't like it. It made me uncomfortable. I remember specifically running a raid in WoW. I didn't reveal I was female, but when I joined the vent server and spoke... well, it was pretty obvious (although one person once told me I sounded like a 'really gay male', apparently because it didn't dawn on him that I might be a girl). From that moment on, they wanted to pass me EVERYTHING even though I kept saying I didn't want it. I don't like that treatment. I just want to be treated like everyone else.
So, I have not noticed discrimination because I am female, but rather special treatment that I don't want. Again, this hasn't happened to me in FFXI or FFXIV. People have always treated me with respect when it comes to my gender/sex. I don't think the gear that is released, or the bounciness of the boobies, is going to change that. Again, I can choose how much I want to objectify my character, right down to the breast size! No women get to choose their breast size IRL without going through surgery. -
11-13-2012, 01:33 AMMamba
I am a girl playing FFXIV amongst other games and I have to say that this is not an issue for me at all, quite the opposite.
I like that my character is sexy, I like to dress up sexy in real life sometimes as well.
I am not sure why it has to be such an issue - WOMEN, you are only objects if you let yourself be an object. It doesn't matter what you wear or how much boob you show, get over yourself.
I also love the Hyur guys and their muscly arms and especially when they walk around without top. Do we see any guys here writing how they are objects of female players lusting after them? Nope!
I think the whole western society is victimising women in the wrong places... Lets talk about women's rights in context that actually matters. -
11-13-2012, 01:33 AMLaiferrI was saying they choose whether to implement things or not regardless of if a lot of people/the majority say they want it. I wasn't saying people didn't ask for skimpy gear ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvancedWind
I'm sure you weren't trying to open a can of worms, but in the nicest way possible, there is a reason sexism is more focused on in regards women.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiph
Would be very happy with this!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaran
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11-13-2012, 01:34 AMJusticeReborn
I only read a bit of the OP before rolling my eyes. Suffice to say, I am not the least bit concerned about this supposed "sexism." It's a video game. I don't care.
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11-13-2012, 01:41 AMLaiferrWhat you're describing is called 'positive discrimination'. I agree with you, I don't like it either. I want to be viewed as equal and on my merits, not because I'm a woman. I also don't go out of my way to mention it unless it's brought up. I'm often mistaken for a man, too, and with 'strangers' I generally don't bother correcting it. Oh and, on the breast size thing, I intentionally didn't bring that up as I don't have an issue with it. I think they managed to add it in a tasteful way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuko
I'm glad to hear you haven't expereinced what I've seen. It may just be a case of which server you end up on or who you meet!
It isn't 'such an issue'. I really did try and stress this isn't a huge deal for me, I was just wanting to discuss it. And just because it's small, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Every penny counts and all that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba
If you had read the OP, I addressed exactly what you just said and already said I can appreciate some people don't feel the same way. I was wanting to discuss it. I know what this forum is like but I would be incredibly appreciative if you could aid the discussion rather than adding non-comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeReborn