Focus Classes amongst their respective Jobs

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Originally Posted by Firon

they just need to make the classes more like THM/MRD they are by far best examples to show how the class/job role should be done.

THM is great solo, and does what a class should do, BLM is pure DD can can't do any support

MRD is a great DD but when it changes to war it dps goes down to become more tanky.

I also forgot arc is a great DD when used as a class also.

I feel they should just make class only action that focus on soloing/light pt's. Also adding some class only traits for classes would be nice as well.

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Damage goes down when you switch from MRD to warrior?

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Originally Posted by Reika

Damage goes down when you switch from MRD to warrior?

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You loose all the DD skills from other classes same thing for brd.

Invigorate, Blindside, Keen Flurry, Blood for blood.

A GLA could do more dmg than a WAR if he went with the DD skills. Had some fun with some friends who let me fight miser on GLA did an 1k riotblade with GLA, was not even using the ebst sword GLA could use.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Ah, I read the part where you said +10 isnt good enough but then your examples appeared to be buffing classes only. So I was figuring the boost in damage from CNJ (in your example) would carry into WHM making them even more competitive to BLM.

Perhaps my bias to the slightly re-envisioned BLM/WHM but I really dont want to see any damage competitiveness between those two mage jobs - it should be blatantly obvious (if anyone has tried a proper DD WHM setup its not that bad actually - just missing some hate resets BLM has).



They weren't supposed to be (they were supposed to be specializations that lost flexibility - though it ended up being in many cases no point not to go a job class (with the general intention that you go job in parties and class in solo play)). However, THM is a very common end game choice. Often a THM can save a team where a BLM would have failed and the party would have wiped.

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yes, whm should not compete for damage with blm. So when i said increase cnj damage, maybe i should have said nerf thm damage. Basically though i think class mage damage should not do more then 75% of blm damage. Classes are meant for solo but i dont think they tried to hard to balance them for playing solo.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

So theres been some discussions about Classes and Jobs lately and i felt i had some thoughts that could make a thread and give people a place to discuss this out.

What i've been thinking is what if Classes no longer share abilities amongst each other and instead share abilities between Class and Job or Job and Advanced Job for those that want the Classes erased from existence absolutely.

Gladiator/Knight -> Paladin
Gladiator/Knight -> Dark Knight

They would still share levels but Gladiator would get its versatility from the basic abilities it learns that are more recognised as abilties it's counterpart jobs would use. For example Gladiator would have access to two opposing lists of actions to clearly define which are accessible by Paladin and Dark Knight. Gladiator could use Holy Succor and Last Resort but Paladin is locked out of Last Resort and Dark Knight is locked out of Holy Succor.

Paladin and Dark Knight would both add alot of new abilities upon changing to them to clearly define each role while sacrificing the other set of abilities making solo a non option or inefficient for them. This is assuming that Classes will get multiple jobs but this form of Class+Job specialisation would toss out the possible problems further down the line of having to juggle the potency of x number of Class actions being mixed together freely. While if done well still managing to salvage the Solo ability of Classes.

Edit: I want to state that i'm not saying Classes cant/shouldnt have abilities unique to them.

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only thing they need to do is keep classes how they are. then when you change to a job your abilities get changed completely to what ever the job is 5 job skills is horrible. and let the job use a few class abilities.

WS's should get a overhaul when you change to a job also. aslo should only be one job per class.

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Originally Posted by Firon

You loose all the DD skills from other classes same thing for brd.

Invigorate, Blindside, Keen Flurry, Blood for blood.

A GLA could do more dmg than a WAR if he went with the DD skills. Had some fun with some friends who let me fight miser on GLA did an 1k riotblade with GLA, was not even using the ebst sword GLA could use.

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Take note of how many of those actions come from Lancer 3/4 of the dd abilities. Under what i'm describing you would already have a ton of defensive and offensive actions just by leveling Gladiator alone and you wouldnt have access to a large amount of actions that are completely incompatible with your class/job so it would also make it more user friendly.

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Originally Posted by indira

only thing they need to do is keep classes how they are. then when you change to a job your abilities get changed completely to what ever the job is 5 job skills is horrible. and let the job use a few class abilities.

WS's should get a overhaul when you change to a job also. aslo should only be one job per class.

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Problem with that is your player who's been playing Gladiator will be completely unprepared for playing the jobs if they just up and change entirely from their Class counterpart but i agree jobs need more actions.

The game should have been focused on the job system to begin with without the classes. Soul gems could have just unlocked lost arts without changing you from a class to a job. It's not that hard.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

Take note of how many of those actions come from Lancer 3/4 of the dd abilities. Under what i'm describing you would already have a ton of defensive and offensive actions just by leveling Gladiator alone and you wouldnt have access to a large amount of actions that are completely incompatible with your class/job so it would also make it more user friendly.

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They plan to do this same thing with crafting classes. People wont have to lvl up every crafting class in order to be an effective BSM for example. Battle classes too should have their own skills do do this or that and not rely on other class skills.

I'm of the thought that having classes and jobs be separate entities yet related to one another allows for a much easier time of balancing any solo/small group activities and large group activities separately. You can create jobs from the focus of a single aspect from one (or two) class(es) in which the act of focusing creates a weak area necessarily compensated for by party members, yet keep that focus more distributed for classes in a way that still provides a difference in playstyle (albeit not a radical departure necessarily) while allowing for a greater degree of survivability and independence which promotes a less social play experience should the mood arise.

I just believe that allowing classes and jobs to take separate development lives creates more room for developers to play, and while classes may not be the majority focus of game balance, having that distinction available can't hurt.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I demand Black Mage be clearly superior to Thaumturge, not situationally.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

That position bassically negates Thaumaturge's existence in it's entirety.

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Couldn't the same be said for every other job/class combo? How many people do you see running around as their class counterparts in content of any relevance? (or at all, really)

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Originally Posted by Reika

And that if they want to keep classes nearly identical to their jobs, they might as well just eliminate them. Though in doing so, we will lose out on 7+ possible playstyles.

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The problem (for lack of a better term) with classes was everyone could equip the exact same abilities. Some people liked that freedom of choice, but at the end of the day, there's nothing that set apart what each class did apart from what equipment they wore and their base stats.

This essentially created the issue like in GW2 where people could do everything, but nobody really specialized, so you see PvE fights where everything was complete chaos. There were other underlying problems with the game, such as how the SP system was utilized to where you fight things 20 levels over you to get max skillgain per fight and whoever was curing was essentially your tank.

I think if they really want to set apart classes from jobs they need to:

a) Once you reach level 30, all abilities learned on a class going forward are class specific.
b) Jobs have their own abilities they learn level 30 onwards.
c) To promote the idea of multiple jobs coming from each class, make certain abilities available only to the class and to one or the other job. ex. Gladiator learns several shield skills, so they should be exclusive to Gladiator and Paladin and Dark Knight cannot use them. Likewise, Gladiator also learns other abilities that only it and Dark Knight can use and Paladin has no access to them.

My ideas may not be the best, but something drastic has to be done with classes, else they're going to continue to be overshadowed by their job counterparts in ARR.