I agree that should also be more CC on tanks... BUT White Mage just breaks dungeons with its AoE stun so good luck adding more CC to tanks when White Mage has the best CC in the game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimmi
As for damaging gap closers... Just make them the combo finisher of a ranged target AoE combo... problem solved...
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09-08-2025, 04:31 PMDRKoftheAzure
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09-08-2025, 06:08 PMCarighanEasily solved since we have CC immunity timers already, conceptually. Stun just needs to be a more aggressive one (either 100% -> 50% -> immune, or even better, split CCs into full and partial, full CCs like Stun go 100% -> immune for 15s while partial ones like root go 100% -> 50% -> 25% -> immune). That way White Mage gets to keep their "big thing" but also we can have meaningful CC on other classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
On that note, the game needs a way to see CC immunity/reductions. I would propose:
* New debuff icon (not buff!), same basic shape/icon as the actual CC.
* Blue or green background instead of red.
* Duration is always 15s from last CC expiring.
* For CC where the reduction increases in intensity, it has 1-3 stacks. For immediately-immune CCs like my stun idea above, it just has a single stack, no number at all.
* Basically you can never have the red and the blue icon at the same time, and it keeps the location in the debuff row. On the red icon (the actual CC) dropping, it gets replaced with the corresponding blue icon, and if you re-apply the CC, it replaces the blue icon again before on dropping that one comes back with another stack. -
09-08-2025, 09:59 PMAlice_RiversFar better just to decouple WHM's stun from it's aoe damage. Give WHMs the choice of when to stun instead of forcing stun immunity just to do dps because that's not fair for anyone involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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09-08-2025, 10:15 PMCarighanThis would change nothing for the issue at hand. WHM stun would still be superior and hence still be used in dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers
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09-08-2025, 11:17 PMAlice_Rivers
That's not the problem though, the problem is that currently WHMs face a choice of: Force stun immunity or don't do aoe dps, decoupling these things fixes said problem so WHMs and tanks alike can stun things in a productive manner.
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09-09-2025, 05:17 AMShurrikhan???Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
The question was in whether to allow the stun to be turned off, allowing at least the final DR's worth to be saved for when it'll actually matter (e.g., for maximizing effective uptime / safety). Else, you'd be sabotaging yourself to bring a WHM to anything in which trash bears more threat than mere continuous damage (e.g., if dungeons ever actually offered challenge and interest through their mobs beyond turning each into CC-immune mini-bosses).
All that being said... I still think Intervene should silence and pacify and both it / Head Graze and Low Blow / Leg Sweep should always at least interrupt physical casts (which should in turn be more frequent and more frequently worth shutting down).
It doesn't need to degrade nearly that quickly. The only mitigation stuns provide are through the delays to auto-attacks or special attacks. Since stuns will quickly no longer last long enough to prevent a readied auto-attack from going off, they quickly lose mitigation value outside of interrupting casted and CD-gated special attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
WHM doesn't provide 10s of 100% mitigation via Holy. At best, it its full spam towards DR towards about as much as 10-15s of a 20% slow, depending on how perfectly spaced its stuns are.
In the larger scheme of things, that stun-spam is significant, yes, but far from broken.
Even under the existing system, one could just use a steel-bordered copy of the stun/bind/silence/etc. icon as a (de)buff on the enemy and a stack counter for 1 through 5, as 4 is the greatest number of reductions any effect can take before immunity. (It's fundamentally 50% -> 25% -> 12.5% -> 6.25% -> 0%), with the product rounded down above 1s and doing nothing if reduced to less than a half-second -- though with some weird XIV shenanigans on Holy specifically.)Quote:
On that note, the game needs a way to see CC immunity/reductions. I would propose:
* New debuff icon (not buff!), same basic shape/icon as the actual CC.
* Blue or green background instead of red.
* Duration is always 15s from last CC expiring.
* For CC where the reduction increases in intensity, it has 1-3 stacks. For immediately-immune CCs like my stun idea above, it just has a single stack, no number at all.
* Basically you can never have the red and the blue icon at the same time, and it keeps the location in the debuff row. On the red icon (the actual CC) dropping, it gets replaced with the corresponding blue icon, and if you re-apply the CC, it replaces the blue icon again before on dropping that one comes back with another stack.