Revelations from Patch 7.2: Seekers of Eternity

Re: The Mastermind

Alexandrians have their own naming schemes; usually a mineral for Hyur and Elezen, with a palindrome for the Lalafell. Calyx's name doesn't fit either, and instead seems to ultimately derive from a type of ancient Greek vase.

I'm not of the mind he's an Ascian (on the contrary, Ascians wanted nothing more than to keep their world exactly how it was), much less another reflection of Hermes, but that there's some link to the Ancients is something I can't rule out - especially since he seems to be aware of the "key's" true nature, the reflections, and Azem's magick.

Something that is itching at me (having played the Arcadion and the first bit of MSQ so far) is that there seems to be an inconsistency of what is currently happening with the regulators and memory-wiping or not.

In MSQ, Malachite and the people we take his deliveries to all seem to talk as if people are still losing all memory of the dead person even though the exact process is being handled differently.

In the Arcadion, Yaana isn't losing her memory of Hector.

Previously we did have indication that people can remember Sphene and that she died.

Either the forgetting has large-scale resumed after being stopped, the writers are losing track of their own details or something weird is going on.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

(Arcadion)

I'm also somewhat shocked that... we are still in Solution 9, with people wearing their regulators, and the culture hasn't really changed around death and dying. So why does Brute Bomber's death feel so.. underwhelming in terms of how people react to it? Witnessing death and remembering it is supposed to be foreign to these people, so why is the reaction to such a morbid death so... whatever? I mean we do get a few tears from Retsarra, but only really when pushed to it. It's just another thing that the whole relationship between Retsarra and Eutrope kind of overshadows, as more time should've been instead put into dissecting this death instead of establishing a relationship drama between two characters.

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I was really expecting more exploration of this. Initially I was expecting that Yaana was about to lose all memory of him, which could have led to some really interesting exploration that suddenly she's dealing with that unprocessable sensation of a loss she can't even remember, while the two people she's with do remember and are mourning. Alternately, perhaps she would realise before it happpened and snatch off the regulator before it mind-wipes her, or perhaps she would have the bewilderment this time and reject it next time.

But no, whatever the underlying logic, she just remembers him and there is not (at least yet) much time spent dwelling on it – though the interruption of learning her sisters have been kidnapped doesn't help. Perhaps she'll have spent more time thinking on it by the time Part 3 comes around.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Some thoughts about the next Arcadion tier

I think a really great gut-punch if they brought back Brute Bomber again as M11 in the heavyweight tier, but go for an Undertaker direction: The Brute Entomber, the soulless, cybernetically enhanced corpse of the Brute Bomber who does the President's bidding.

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There's certainly some precedent for it with Origenics and Ambrose's fate.

Also, regarding naming conventions for a certain Arcadion fighter:

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Also, lastly: You will note that not once have I referred to Brute Bomber by his real name. To be frank, it's entirely because I'm left scratching my head about it. "Hector" is an Anglican/Greek name, which fits neither the naming conventions of the Alexandrians nor any Turali culture. I looked up "Hectorine" to see if it was some obscure mineral or whatever, but all I could find was a Californian "soft rock" group.

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Anglican with Greek origin is 100% on target for an Alexandrian Hyune name. With the prominent exception of Sphene, mineral names are only used by Eldites. (Perhaps Sphene is part Eldite but inherited none of their specific features, or is named after an ancestor.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Something that is itching at me (having played the Arcadion and the first bit of MSQ so far) is that there seems to be an inconsistency of what is currently happening with the regulators and memory-wiping or not.

In MSQ, Malachite and the people we take his deliveries to all seem to talk as if people are still losing all memory of the dead person even though the exact process is being handled differently.

In the Arcadion, Yaana isn't losing her memory of Hector.

Previously we did have indication that people can remember Sphene and that she died.

Either the forgetting has large-scale resumed after being stopped, the writers are losing track of their own details or something weird is going on.

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I think I get what's going on, but it's a matter of inference across both this and the last patch.

The loss of memory of the dead has been stopped, but it's been stopped so recently that it's still very new; the population at large is still new to the concept of death as a thing they have to actually think about, and Malachite is still working through the backlog of people who died before then. Reasonably speaking, a lot of people just don't really know anyone that's died since that system got shut down. ...well, they probably do after Calyx makes the machines go full Maximum Overdrive, but before then, no.

Remember that 7.1 ended with news of someone dying; not someone important or someone people knew deeply, just some guy, and it was deeply chilling because it was the first time they've had to reckon with that sort of news.

Brute Bomber is sort of a tragic situation of inevitability; everyone knew he was going to die if he went through with what he did, so as tragic as it is that it happened, we're not really mourning him as a new death; it's like learning a terminally ill person actually passed.

Some thoughts on the MSQ.

The Ascions will likely come back in some form, considering Preservation seems to know about the shards and the naming conventions the Ascions use. I know there's some people who are tired of them but I find this exciting.

Previously, they were all bound to the will of the Unsundered, who were bound to Zodiark. Well, we killed the later and the former aren't around at all. That means you what are basically immortal wizards who are now free to do whatever they want.

And since Azem is connected to this, through the Key... What if the next major antagonist is Azem. Either a new one who took the title after our Azem buggered off, the souls from the shards we've yet to visit? Just random musings.

MSQ initial thoughts

Sphene direly needs a better disguise and an alias if she doesn't want to be recognised.

Is the "key" the chalice or Azem's crystal? Did we have the chalice with us? Is the crystal sending key-like signals despite not being the key?

Apparently Milos and Gulool Ja are about the same age so that's another step towards pinning down how old he's supposed to be. For comparison the Doman kids are 11-12.

I feel like there was a missed opportunity in the Underkeep to have a portrait of Sphene with her parents. (My personal headcanon being that they're Zidane and Garnet expies.)

Cornservant

I'm sorry, you saddled me with looking after a what?

On a side note, have the screens around town advertising the Arcadion always included a frame with a shadowy backlit figure, or is that new since beating Part 2?

Name thoughts on new ominous MSQ guy:

Calyx is an interesting name – first and obvious it's a "plant name" vs the "stone name" Sphene; specifically the outermost part of a flower that starts as the outer cover of a bud.

Etymology-wise, my paper dictionary links it to "Greek kalux (compare kalupto to cover)" while Wikipedia says it is used interchangeably with the term calix meaning cup or goblet. Both meanings seem relevant!

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Arcadion feelings:

And Howling Blade is a nothing fight, that as a Gundam fan I'm insulted to see people call a Gundam; this man is a poser, there's not a Minovsky particle in his body. If anything he resembles Metal Gear cyborgs, and you could really carry that comparison somewhere... if the background and music were evoking that in any way.

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For what it's worth (M8 Boss)

He's like 90% Custom Robo, with a tiny sprinkling of LBX Fenrir because Yoshi-P and Akihiro Hino are besties. No Gundams were harmed in the making of this mech.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

Some thoughts on the MSQ.

The Ascions will likely come back in some form, considering Preservation seems to know about the shards and the naming conventions the Ascions use. I know there's some people who are tired of them but I find this exciting.

Previously, they were all bound to the will of the Unsundered, who were bound to Zodiark. Well, we killed the later and the former aren't around at all. That means you what are basically immortal wizards who are now free to do whatever they want.

And since Azem is connected to this, through the Key... What if the next major antagonist is Azem. Either a new one who took the title after our Azem buggered off, the souls from the shards we've yet to visit? Just random musings.

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The Sundered Ascians being free to do what they want with the Unsundered gone was the main impetus for Fandaniel Causing Problems On Purpose in the lead-up to Endwalker. Another Ascian coming in with the same reasoning might feel a bit tired, even if what he plans to do is different.

As for something more spoilery:

Calyx knowing about the Ascians' terminology for the Source and the shards, and IDing Alexandria's shard as the Ninth, means that he has information that the Ascians knew. Given how much the Alexandrians are established as knowing how to duplicate and review memories, the idea that Calyx came across an Ascian's memories and drew that information out feels like a pretty easy conclusion to come to, and doesn't require the Ascians to have provided that information intentionally or even knowingly.

It's also possible that the Ascians weren't the only people to figure it out, and using the identical nomenclature is just a contrivance that serves the narrative in this particular instance: "Did you think you were the only people privy to that knowledge? How arrogant!"

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Originally Posted by Iscah

MSQ initial thoughts

Sphene direly needs a better disguise and an alias if she doesn't want to be recognised.

Is the "key" the chalice or Azem's crystal? Did we have the chalice with us? Is the crystal sending key-like signals despite not being the key?

Apparently Milos and Gulool Ja are about the same age so that's another step towards pinning down how old he's supposed to be. For comparison the Doman kids are 11-12.

I feel like there was a missed opportunity in the Underkeep to have a portrait of Sphene with her parents. (My personal headcanon being that they're Zidane and Garnet expies.)

Cornservant

I'm sorry, you saddled me with looking after a what?

On a side note, have the screens around town advertising the Arcadion always included a frame with a shadowy backlit figure, or is that new since beating Part 2?

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I think the shadowy back-lit figure has always been there but is just more prominent now in our minds.

Msq

I think we have the chalice on us. Just that we haven't taken it out yet as why would we need to. Doesn't stop us from finding Calyx reacting to the Azem stone wierd. As why would he have that "about damn time they popped that out" type of reaction . Course to me he just feels very inconsistent in that he should have an idea and baseline on how strong we are if he is aware of it being mostly us who defeated Queen Eternal. Yet we are to assume everything in the dungeon is tougher than Queen Eternal? Or did he like so many before him extremely underestimate the WoL's strength until after the final boss of the dungeon.

Post msq and raid npcs

I only was able to find Erenville outside of those in the backroom. Most npcs directly in the Outskirts mention the attack. One even mentioning that they won't rest until they find out who caused it and why. Inside Solution Nine in the government section there's an npc I feel bad for as they gave their neo regulator to their girlfriend only for them to run out of them by the time he tried to get another one for himself. Then I want to say the male lalafell we have seen a few times in the post 7.0 patches is either stupid or the general population has no clue how an endless is made. Or at least not the 1st step was back when Living Memory was active. As they are glad they have a neo regulator and can't wait to become an endless so that they don't have to be afraid of dying anymore after almost dying from the latest attack.

There is a fan that represents all fighters but Eutropr near the Arcadion that talks about the current state of their favorite fighter. I feel bad for the Dancing Green and Brute Bomber fan as one still thinks the guy really was a party animal and is still going clubbing. While the other thinks that Hector will make another appearance in the ring at some point.

Why does the WoL keep on collecting or being given minions that want to follow them around due to the fact they get into fights? We have ones like the Anima who just wants to absorb aether from around places we've fought in and others like the sentient knife where hopefully our fights stave off their wanting to kill things or us or have us kill things.