7.2 "formula" for Savage needs to CHANGE

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

The tome cap and savage lockout don't stop you from playing the game. Obsessing over gear that you aren't going to do anything with is stopping you from playing the game.

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so tell me, do you still run savage on your main after you did all your weekly lockouts ? if the answer is no then you know what i meant and everyone know you won't answer yes. ppl tend to forgot the RPG part in MMORPG, the only way to progress in a rpg is tied to power progression (and in FFXIV it's tied to gear only, because substats are boring but that's another matter and there is litterally nothing else)

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

But the question is - why?

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Gearing to many isn't about need, it's about want, it just tickles something in the lizard brain to see numbuh go up, there is a reason idle games are popular, and people want to see numbuh go up in a game they are actually invested in, and to see numbuh go up in more jobs, so they don't feel bottlenecked into one.

"You don't need gear" misses the point of why so many pursue gear to begin with, and it is reductive in a bizarre way, when the reason people want to gear up is so much simpler than anything you are suggesting, like you are being reductive by making it more complex than it is.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

so tell me, do you still run savage on your main after you did all your weekly lockouts ? if the answer is no then you know what i meant and everyone know you won't answer yes. ppl tend to forgot the RPG part in MMORPG, the only way to progress in a rpg is tied to power progression (and in FFXIV it's tied to gear only, because substats are boring but that's another matter)

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I didnt want to do reclears after P12s because there was no ultimates for 6.5, and only did because my static wanted to

I really dont understand people that want gear if they're not doing ultimates

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

I didnt do reclears after P12s because there was no ultimates for 6.5

I really dont understand people that want gear if they're not doing ultimates

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again why does it matter to you that ppl don't do ultimates (which again reward close to nothing) ? personnally i don't care what ppl are doing in the game, to each their own. but i can totally understand that ppl want more flexible way to gear up when it's the only way to make your character stronger.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

again why does it matter to you that ppl don't do ultimates (which again reward close to nothing) ? personnally i don't care what ppl are doing in the game, to each their own. but i can totally understand that ppl want more flexible way to gear up when it's the only way to make your character stronger.

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I guess we just have different PoV

I dont understand why people want gear to do expert 10s faster, and to me the problem is not in the "gearing speed" but how "rewarding" a loot feels

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

I guess we just have different PoV

I dont understand why people want gear to do expert 10s faster, and to me the problem is not in the "gearing speed" but how "rewarding" a loot feels

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i guess so, but we can agree to disagree with each other don't worry, i can understand your PoV but you can agree that i'm right by saying it's all tied to a global game design flaw.

in a perfect world tome and lockout shouldn't be a thing and power progression should totally be tied to players interacting with the content itself. like dungeon giving you a gear to tackle another content that gives you better rewards to tackle another content...and so on, and raid would looks like more dalriada/BA/CLL than glorified trials. but we both know it won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

so tell me, do you still run savage on your main after you did all your weekly lockouts ? if the answer is no then you know what i meant and everyone know you won't answer yes. ppl tend to forgot the RPG part in MMORPG, the only way to progress in a rpg is tied to power progression (and in FFXIV it's tied to gear only, because substats are boring but that's another matter and there is litterally nothing else)

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Edit: Oh, I guess you meant do I keep running savage on the same week after weekly lockout? Generally, no. In the early weeks I might do a couple of extra opti runs to practice/try different strats but for the most part we have an organised raid night once per week. I know I'll raid again next week so there's no rush to do it again this week and I can use that time to do other things. I often help friends if their static is missing a player but I haven't sorted my alt out for Dawntrail yet, so that has only been if they didn't care about losing a chest for the week this tier. The point that you're trying to make is kind of weird though. It's a bit like "Oh, you like food? So tell me, do you keep eating after you're full? Oh, you don't?! GOTCHA!". Cringe TBH.

The problem is that in every other MMO in existence, when you get gear - there's something to do with that gear. In FFXI, getting new gear allows you to progress through different tiers of endgame content. In WoW, getting new gear allows you to progress through the gear-gated bosses in heroic or mythic or push higher keys in M+. In FFXIV, getting new gear allows you to... Have better gear?

I agree that gear progression in FFXIV is terrible but the problem is not the amount of time that it takes. The time to BiS is actually pretty short in FFXIV compared to other MMOs. The problem is that the time it takes feels wasted because there is no reward for the time invested. There is no progression, only the illusion of progression.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Gearing to many isn't about need, it's about want, it just tickles something in the lizard brain to see numbuh go up, there is a reason idle games are popular, and people want to see numbuh go up in a game they are actually invested in, and to see numbuh go up in more jobs, so they don't feel bottlenecked into one.

"You don't need gear" misses the point of why so many pursue gear to begin with, and it is reductive in a bizarre way, when the reason people want to gear up is so much simpler than anything you are suggesting, like you are being reductive by making it more complex than it is.

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The weekly savage lockout and tome cap don't prevent you from gearing or playing multiple jobs. They can't increase gearing speed to a point that would be fast enough to sate the zoomer brain need for instant gratification without quite literally breaking the game.

It's fine to want gear. The problem is that the content is not designed for the gear that you want. The content is trivialised when people have the gear and making it available too quickly does nothing except decrease the amount of time that the content is relevant for. The crux mechanics in most savage fights are already commonly skipped by week 2 or 3.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

I still dont see what’s the problem with tomestone cap/savage loot lockout ?

I hope every person that have a problem with it, have all ultimate cleared on multiple jobs (on patch) ?

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Most people that I know at least do savage and Ultimates because they enjoy that type of content.Why would you hinder the people that do enjoy and force them do 1 day/ week instead of allowing more freedom?

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Yes, people already do that but with the current tome cap, that only forces people to take 3 hunt trains for the 450 cap before they raid. The mandatory weekly power grind is short and painless.

You're also ignoring the fact that you don't even need the gear. There is no use for tome/savage gear for a full 4 months after the savage tier releases when ultimate releases. If you don't prog ultimate on content, i.e. 99.99% of the people complaining about lockout/cap, then there is no use for savage/tome gear ever. Savage is tuned for crafted gear. Anything beyond that is overgeared and trivialises the content.

People aren't setting ilvl restrictions on PFs on prog parties at this point in the tier 1) because they're clueless and that's why they're progging M1S 6 months into the patch cycle and 2) because the majority are so absurdly overgeared that it doesn't matter any more.

You can't be BiS after 1 week. Even if you run 8 way splits (and no one runs splits until week 2), you won't have enough tomes to buy your tome gear and you won't have enough upgrade mats to upgrade the tome gear.

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For that exact reason that gear is really not needed the lock out is stupid. The gear itself is my little prize/reward for completing the fight.

Also as I was saying, people just enjoy doing that type of content with more than 1 class even if they do not main it. I did this tier on every role except tank (because well they got no gear). This will also greatly improve the longevity of the tier instead of people logging in for 1 day when they do the power grind, as you call it, do re-clears, and log out. In addition, you can also help more people learn the fight and also gear up as well, since you won't "steal" the loot just because you cleared that week.

In short and summed up, just let me f-ing play.

Im fully against a increased Tomestonecap in the first 3 Months, after its fine to double it and open the tier to farm fully, but the first 3 months should stay the way they are

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

For that exact reason that gear is really not needed the lock out is stupid. The gear itself is my little prize/reward for completing the fight.

Also as I was saying, people just enjoy doing that type of content with more than 1 class even if they do not main it. I did this tier on every role except tank (because well they got no gear). This will also greatly improve the longevity of the tier instead of people logging in for 1 day when they do the power grind, as you call it, do re-clears, and log out. In addition, you can also help more people learn the fight and also gear up as well, since you won't "steal" the loot just because you cleared that week.

In short and summed up, just let me f-ing play.

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Literally the opposite.

If there was no lockout, the content would become irrelevant infinitely more quickly because people would get BiS and quit faster, the fights would become completely trivialised faster, and people would spam the fights and get bored of them faster. Savage is balanced around you not having the gear. I don't understand why you're so convinced that you can't do savage unless you have tome/savage gear? How do you think people clear week 1?

I do think they should change the 2/1/0 chest system to allow people to reclear with friends after they've already cleared though. IMO taking up to 2 players who have already cleared should not reduce the number of chests, 3-4 players should be 1 chest, 5-8 players should be 0 chest. There would be too many people buying lootmaster clears if there were no restrictions at all but the current system makes it way too obnoxious to play with friends if they need a fill.