Final Fantasy XIV article in MCV

I'm just watching the trends, it's not a matter of whether or not FFXIV failed or not. If FFXIV had a clean slate, it would still have to deal with this mammoth hurtle.

The MMO population is saturated and you just can't afford multiple subscriptions in this economy for most people. So either you're in direct competition for people's limited money, in which case people will usually stick to the games that they've been with, given how much they've already invested. Or you bypass the conflict entirely by doing a free to play model.

Those that play World of Warcraft or other MMOs will then not have to stop playing it to afford to play ARR. This would give the game ample opportunity to steal attention away from the older game that player had invested into, while also tempting players to spend spare cash into the game.

But the problem here is I don't think Yoshida can maintain a crew of 300 on a F2P model, but again I don't know their pay or budget. So it's all in the air.

If ARR can manage to sustain a subscription model, then cool. Otherwise, they shouldn't keep F2P off the table.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

People are confusing free to play with pay to win.

It's more than possible to create a free to play environment that makes optional purchases that have no impact on gameplay.

Truth of the matter is: the Subscription model is a major barrier to entry - which SE may not be able to afford at this rate. Many players might find FFXIV to be good, but not 'pay every month' good, which would be a problem when we're begging for a healthy population.

If it goes free to play a cash shop for vanity pieces, certain home furnishings, and personal convinced then many more players may flock to the title - and SE may wind up with a larger total income as a result.

You may not like it, but that's the reality of things. The Subscription Market is showing its age, and it's questionable that FFXIV can survive while maintaining it - regardless of how good A Realm Reborn may be.

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I don't think it's that people are confusing F2P with buy to win, it's the simple fact that those games tend to be lower quality than P2P games -- they aren't obligated to give you good content because you're not paying them outside of cashshop items or you're not 'freemium'. As for this specifically:

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Many players might find FFXIV to be good, but not 'pay every month' good,

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Most people these days want everything for free as seen by piracy numbers -- this is why companies are annoying us who actually would pay with anti-piracy measures and DRM systems -- so regardless if something is actually worth the money, most gamers would rather have it for free than pay for it, this is why there's a good chance if you know someone who actually buys games they're likely from the older generations, rather than the newer generation. The economy may be bad, but honestly, $9-$14 a month isn't much money at all, even if you're living off of the government you could afford that.

However, we've also seen that gamers are willing to shell out cash for DLC which 99% of the time are stuff you're supposed to get when you pay that $60 price tag -- like characters you used to unlock by beating hard mode with everyone? Or to unlock Lilith in marvel vs capcom 2 you had to navigate the character select a certain way? Or additional tracks that you got by placing first in x,y,z tournaments -- so on and so forth, essentially we're in the generation where P2P isn't showing it's age, but gamers are being nickle and dime for everything, this is why B2W and F2P models are better for the companies, but not the gamers that are expecting a quality game.

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$9-$14 a month isn't much money at all

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Exactly, there are still 9.1 millions Subscribers for WoW paying 12-15 bucks a month. So, I don't think the P2P Era is over yet or will be. Everybody wants things for free, heck even I do! However, I know that things aren't free in this world, and everybody that wants something "Should pay for it". Unless the Provider wants it to be free then thats fine ( but you will get the quality for something that's free). When you P2P in an MMO you get the Quality, Content, Less Bugs or none, Less Annoying people etc. All that you get with a P2P Model.

F2P you have to deal with a lot of hardships to play a F2P MMO. You get More of a chance to deal with rude/trolling people, Bugs are usually never corrected, Less Content or none ( after Initial Launch), Not so Good Quality. ( Except maybe a couple games).

As the saying goes.. "You get what you pay for."

I would rather pay a small fee and get anything I want then have to pay for every little thing that is good in the game. I feel it makes the playing field fair. I have not gotten any of the primal weapons in the game who's fault is that mine not my pocketbook. If you work hard enough you can get anything in the game but if you have to pay you might have to decide which you can afford. I also think in the long run you pay more money then if you just paid a monthly fee.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

As the saying goes.. "You get what you pay for."

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Former Tera, SWTOR, and Rift players would all like to have a word with you.

About this illusion that Quality relies on subscription pay, I'd like to differ you to League of Legends - the most played game in the market. It topped WoW this year, it's free to play, the game players make boatloads of money off of it, and the quality of the game is high and evolving continually.

Or, if you want to wait til the end of the month, take a look a Guild Wars 2. A buy to play model, of a quality that is putting every MMO on the market right now on their hind heels. Granted, it isn't a graphic masterpiece (though I wasn't running it on max settings.), but their game-play model more than makes up for it.

This idea that pay = quality is just a false assumption. Granted, there are a lot of crap titles that are free to play or buy to play, but the amount of good titles with heavy online capabilities has sharply increased in the last decade, and maintenance on server costs have not. It would not be difficult to take a DLC model used in single players and apply them to a MMO concept, and it would likely be more successful as such then to ask for subscriptions.

Would it work best for FFXIV? That's a question we have to wait to answer.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Former Tera, SWTOR, and Rift players would all like to have a word with you.

About this illusion that Quality relies on subscription pay, I'd like to differ you to League of Legends.

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I played League of Legends for 4 months, it's a PvP MLG game (unless playing against easily tackled AI) and we all know how popular MLG is now -- You forgot to mention that in order to fully enjoy LoL you need to purchase pretty much every character except the handful you start out with or you have to grind your buttoff to unlock them for "free" and even then there's only a few you can unlock through grinding, the rest are purchase only-- not to mention alternate skins and some crests costs a pretty penny if you want to be ontop of your game.

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Or, if you want to wait til the end of the month, take a look a Guild Wars 2. A buy to play model, of a quality that is putting every MMO on the market right now on their hind heels

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We've been down this road with Rift, Tera and SWTOR -- we heard it all, "These will make it so no other MMORPG can ever come out again!" and "Your MMO will be bent over and done raw by (Rift, Tera, SWTOR)!" and "It will be the best thing since eating a sandwich while having sex with a playboy model in the bahamas!"

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This idea that pay = quality is just a false assumption.

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If that's a false assumption it's even more so false to assume free to play games will be of higher quality -- when you spend x money on something, especially a month you're expecting the company to give you your moneys worth -- likewise they'll expect to get your money so they have to keep up their end of the bargain -- when you're not paying them much of anything, what should you expect for all the money you're not spending outside of a pet or cosmetic items?

As starlord said and no one can argue this - you get what you pay for, this is a true saying in not only gaming, but life in general.

The decision to remake was made 2 years AGO, not after 2 years, psh...

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

As starlord said and no one can argue this - you get what you pay for, this is a true saying in not only gaming, but life in general.

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If you want to latch onto false logic, I can't stop you. But I sincerely hope Yoshida and the development staff utilize better wisdom when concerning the future of this game than what you're expressing.

First off, every single character in League of Legends is purchasable by in-game currency. Only skins, an optional piece of content that has no impact on game-play, is only available via real life cash, and there have been free skins released as well. So your argument of trying to lump League of Legends into a pay to win model is false. Balancing tweaks to that game is constant to keep older champions balanced.

And the major difference between Guild Wars 2, and the other games is the fact that the model STARTS free to play bypassing the whole concern for the 'rise to folp' issue on companies who built the game reliant on subscriptions. (Yet failed even with the budget you think made these games better.)

You also seem to forget that even all these others that have come out that 'failed' in your view, still do better than FFXIV in its current state, and other games gone free to play, while not the WoW killer they claim to be, still pull better numbers than FFXI - Aion is an example of this.

So yes, we've been here before. They're doing better than FFXIV, including the ones that went free to play. And Guild Wars 2 is actually starting out on a different foot, which may even be the right foot compared to those that preceded it.

Do you think FFXIV will survive as a subscription model when games with superior numbers to FFXI are switching over? FFXIV has gone through two major development cycles now, with only a year's subscription off of a skeleton player base to offset the cost. The outlook is doubtful, even if I am confident in the quality of the game we receive - I am not confident in the wisdom of maintaining a subscription model in the face of all the hurtles this game must face.

This sort of revival is the greatest challenge any company in this genre has ever had. You're going to have to sallow the fact that F2P is possible in this game's future if it doesn't have a monumental success. You can disagree on whether or not it will be better for the game overall - or the direction the genre is taking. But trying to embrace inane catchphrases of aged and outdated wisdom as your impenetrable shield is just willful ignorance.

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If you want to latch onto false logic

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I love how people say that and you have 666 posts now :P (Run, Away)

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I love how people say that and you have 666 posts now :P (Run, Away)

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Diddn't you know, Starlord?

I'm ALWAYS the Devil's Advocate.

You guys haven't asked me whether or not I want FFXIV to come free to play yet. (Hint: It begins with "Fu", and ends with "ck NO!")