Another World First Clear got disqualified due to "Cheating"

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Originally Posted by Tint

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While 3rd party programs are a problem going nuclear on the harder content is not the answer. Just because there are mods that can assist you with the encounter doesn't mean that every Tom, Dick, and Harry will be able to complete it.

No need to alienate a whole group of players(no matter how small they are) over some bad actors.

The only pity here is that it always takes an Ultimate series to only briefly bring the cheating/modding issue to light.

They really should update their ToS if they're just going to let dirty birdies do their thing. It's quite insulting to those of us who can't or don't cheat.

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Originally Posted by Altera

What worries me about these cheating players, is how rampant is this cheating issue? As I feel its also in Savage, Extremes, PVP etc

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I've done some of them and seen other players just know where to go before it's possible to, or who are overly good at a mechanic that doesn't feel is natural for PF to be good at. There are full statics that just are sick on maintenance reset days (where they don't function).

But there are plenty of players that don't, due to reasons like not knowing about them or how to set them up, using console, or not wanting to. Plus, in many cases they just don't need to because of muscle memory and fights being scripted.

It might seem silly that a lot of people don't know how, but if I imagined playing WoW, there's no chance I'd use them because I don't understand them in the context of that game and trying to figure them out would be a headache. When you're just not familiar with something, it seems more complicated.

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if many players are using cheating tools to make the content easier, but then asks for even more harder and harder content

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I have wondered this sometimes since early in the game's history, because Extreme difficulty contents me (I've cleared much harder things, but the point remains).

But the fights being scripted tends to play a role. No matter how hard fights get, if they have a script, people eventually get used to it to the point of being able to show off and do a lot of it with 1 hand tied behind their back. At this point, they start saying it's easy - despite it not being easy for people who haven't done it yet.

I remember even in Heavensward, no matter what content SE made, people came out of it and said it's too easy and I thought they were hopeless; that SE would never satisfy them unless they made the content impossible with constant raid-wides that do 99999999999999 damage.

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I hope this doesnt make XIV forces Non-Addon users like myself, to HAVE to start using them in order to do the new raidtiers :/

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It won't. SE has never catered to them and they never will due to consoles being unable to use them.

I mean, there has been changes but it's a trade off. For example, if fights got harder it's been made up for by things like increased party healing (like Warriors), more rez (Rez mages), using damage downs instead of vulns, more polished mechanics and jobs being streamlined to be smoother (Shirk didn't used to exist, tanks often lacked 20% of their mitigation which is now baked in, ranged attacks broke melee combos, combos expired within a few seconds and tanks had less mit to work).

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When I know there is cheating involved, it makes me less desired to get these socalled "Legendary" titles and weapons :/

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I don't agree, personally. It's still gonna be a rough fight either way. Sometimes fights are significantly easier purely due to the role you play, so the difficulty of the same fight varies for everyone regardless.

SE might as well dedicate themselves to make more mid-core content than this.

What the majority of players would play, instead of maybe the top 2% or so.

They need to hammer down, lock everyone whos not using their client out, ban everyone using a mod, permaban their SE accounts.

If they dont stop cheating, stop making any ultimates, stop giving out savage weapons and titles at all.

IDK if tons of ppl cheat and use plugins, it is still wrong... but yeah yeah ik, now your gonna go after me for playing the game as intended...

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

Also pf is already filled with "p1 bring AM"
so people dont seem to care at all

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...but SE shoud, go after every single one joining such parties...

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Originally Posted by Arrius

SE might as well dedicate themselves to make more mid-core content than this.

What the majority of players would play, instead of maybe the top 2% or so.

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I think even 2% is already overestimated by far lol

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

The only pity here is that it always takes an Ultimate series to only briefly bring the cheating/modding issue to light.

They really should update their ToS if they're just going to let dirty birdies do their thing. It's quite insulting to those of us who can't or don't cheat.

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They're already against the ToS, but the game has zero method of detecting them. A lot of the extreme ones aren't even integrated into the game itself, just overlays and text-to-speech that read the combat log.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

They're already against the ToS, but the game has zero method of detecting them. A lot of the extreme ones aren't even integrated into the game itself, just overlays and text-to-speech that read the combat log.

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I was implying sarcastically that they should remove the restrictions of mods and cheats because they refuse to take proper action against them.

While Pixel Perfect is not the most egregious tool , it simply stands that it opens the floodgates to all of them. We can't really tell how many mods they used. Also all of them are guilty by association so whatever GRIND sat their trying to throw their player under the bus, can pass me with that L. Most groups during WF are using at least ACT for parsing, but included in that can be cactbot and automarks so theirs that.

SE is at fault here as much as the players who seem to have the inability to scrub their screenshots before submitting proof.

Take a look at ultimates in PF, what do you see?

"I have it"
"Bring it"
"AM"
"Allagan Melons"

These people and those in World First race that get caught should be handed 6+ month bans on their accounts at least. Ban everyone that joins that party as well for 6+ months as they are guilty by association and benefit. Make it so that marks ALWAYS leave a message in chat so people can report. Do that, and this AM use stops almost immediately. If they are allowed to be as flagrant in PF, why would people respect the World First Race?

Without SE taking at least a harsher stance on "upholding" the morally grey line they want to draw, nothing will change.

Be ruthless with the ban and the culture will become fearful of the potential consequences. If SE also wants to "care" about WFR in this climate, they should force everyone in a party to submit a pov screen grab video of their desktop, with Windows/ Mac tool bar showing since that would outright showcase most, if not all sideloaded mods on a screen that work in-game. Not that hard.

Also it's a pretty dumb idea to suggest getting rid of one of the few evergreen contents XIV offers still because of some idiots that never learned photoshop.

So a few things...

This is not good.. Either it gets brushed under the rug, which is most likely the case, or they will eventually be forced to treat all add-ons and plugins the same, regardless of whether they are inherently cheating, or something that is rooted more in QoL. The reason I say this is because if they started to hard-enforce this on raiding, for instance, then I can guarantee there will be whataboutisms from all across that sphere, and I don't say this about raiders exclusively... It'd be the same if they started pointing their scopes at RP, for example.. Well what about people doing this and that. - and no, by hard-enforcing I am not talking about just reactively banning people.

I do think cheating is disgusting, but given this circumstance those players are perfectly capable of clearing content regardless of the fact. it's a necessity vs advantage thing, and every time you incorporate something competitive, e.g., a RWF, then you're always going to get an abundance of 'cheaters'. It doesn't matter if it's the 2% of content that people touch, as honestly ultimate's still have a wider scope for the community. It's one of the few events that actually brings the community together that isn't just done in an afternoon.

So, people will cheat regardless of whether it's the content designed for 2% of the player-base (as some lay claim), or whether it's casual dungeon content, or your alliance raids.

Eyo I was wondering how long it would take for the forum to notice.