Next tank

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

I wont read the rest

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Why? You think having room to do 200 more dps in an optimised setting assuming perfect play and good RNG matters when the group dps is 160k?
You're splitting hairs mate. The only instance where DM and HoL are ''better'' against magic is if it's a repeated heavy hitter (Styx) or if it leaves a nasty DoT and PLD can't flash it. Also let's not forget about the Regen buff to shake it off specifically to tackle that discrepancy. But that still leaves them worse against single hit raidwides which are the majority of raidwides anyways, and potentially worthless in the case of physical raidwides. Which we've seen a lot of in this tier.

As someone waiting for a Hammer, it'll be a Tank or a Striking DPS. personally i think tank might be a little too similar to warrior but whatever job gets added that wields a hammer will be my new main, be it tank or dps. I just wish it were a dps cause dps are allowed to have more interesting kits and a Hammer melee with longer cast times in exchange for high potency strikes sounds like a ton of fun. sure i give up 2 gcds but if it hits for 3 gcds worth of damage. I'll make that trade every time.

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

As someone waiting for a Hammer, it'll be a Tank or a Striking DPS. personally i think tank might be a little too similar to warrior but whatever job gets added that wields a hammer will be my new main, be it tank or dps. I just wish it were a dps cause dps are allowed to have more interesting kits and a Hammer melee with longer cast times in exchange for high potency strikes sounds like a ton of fun. sure i give up 2 gcds but if it hits for 3 gcds worth of damage. I'll make that trade every time.

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I so wish they had dared to do something - anything, really - with the 2H mode of Vipers. When they said the GCD will be slower I was all excited, but due to the 20% haste buff the difference isn't even really noticable. If it had been, I dunno, a 5 seconds GCD in return for super strong attacks, then we'd be talking. Seeing something like that on a 2H hammer swinging tank would be fantastic. Or even better, Mace+Shield, 3,5s GCD, all attacks have some secondary effects they need to be used for but none are inherently a combo.

As in, you got various resource generators, and spenders that give everything from healing over damage reduction to group buffs, and it's entirely your choice how to generate/spend, there is 0 limitations to your kit. Pick an ability every 3,5s, you got like 10 of them, that's it. All GCD, too, no oGCD skills except the default ones. Or if more button activity is desired, make it just a single GCD hit, and have everything else be a "rider" you have to press before the single "hit it with the mace" skill. Like inverted Red Mage, basically.

We can't be creative with the current design sorry but that's the truth

Even game designers for biggest Japanese company fell short with current encounter design

Most games tank is a CC job who stun fear or root enemies

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Most games tank is a CC job who stun fear or root enemies

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We played vastly different games...
It's true XIV is a number game and should be changed.

But MMO tanks aren't necesseraly jobs that Crowd Control opponent, that's something true for MOBAs where tanks can't have the same design in a pvp setting. I mean, taunt is literally a form of crowd control anyway.
The general definition of tanks in game, mostly RPGs, is to be the frontline able to receive and soak the most damage.

Also, could you imagine if tanks had more CCs? It would be useless against bosses as they're immune and we'll never see a tool to skip a mechanic.
And in dungeons? Healers would cry even more.

I'm hoping for Green Mage with a mace or hammer.

I'm sorely missing a nature aesthetic since WHM does mostly holy spells now. I'm wanting more stuff based on stuff like briars, thorns, vines, leaves, flowers, pollen/poisons and other fun plant based stuff. We could have cooldowns like barkskin, ice wall, or other fun stuff.

I dunno, can be called anything that fits the current "tank role formula." Give them:
A short-duration strong mit (insert skill name here)
Rampart
A 40% mit with some funny additional effect (insert skill name here)
A party-wide mit (insert skill name here)
And of course your 123 combos plus a 60-sec burst combo.
Done.
As for the job's name and what it looks like, why bother?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

We played vastly different games...
It's true XIV is a number game and should be changed.

But MMO tanks aren't necesseraly jobs that Crowd Control opponent, that's something true for MOBAs where tanks can't have the same design in a pvp setting. I mean, taunt is literally a form of crowd control anyway.
The general definition of tanks in game, mostly RPGs, is to be the frontline able to receive and soak the most damage.

Also, could you imagine if tanks had more CCs? It would be useless against bosses as they're immune and we'll never see a tool to skip a mechanic.
And in dungeons? Healers would cry even more.

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Many RPGs have this formula.. tanks do cc and also supports do.. it is not about moba only.

Some RPGs give tanks a CC that cost MP others use cc instead of damage.. tanks are not suppose to deal damage they suppose to be tanks first who have engaging dps rotation rather than dps jobs having mitigations

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Many RPGs have this formula.. tanks do cc and also supports do.. it is not about moba only.

Some RPGs give tanks a CC that cost MP others use cc instead of damage.. tanks are not suppose to deal damage they suppose to be tanks first who have engaging dps rotation rather than dps jobs having mitigations

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That's true, when WoW heralded the swap from 6 MMORPG roles to just 3 (the thereafter-called "trinity" of roles), CC mostly went to tanks, buffing mostly went to healers, and debuffing got spread around the jobs. There are exceptions of course, but by and large there was a significant focus in moving defensive utility components to the already supportive jobs.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Also, could you imagine if tanks had more CCs? It would be useless against bosses as they're immune and we'll never see a tool to skip a mechanic.
And in dungeons? Healers would cry even more.

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Wouldn't have to be. Seen how GW2 does it, even on 100+ people open world mobs? The mob gets a CC-"bar", while slowly casting something. Each CC move is ignored, but applies a certain amount of "damage" to the bar (stuns for example have a higher base damage than snares, also duration plays into the effective number). Once broken, the mob is CCed, usually in a pre-defined way but sometimes it's just the first "real" CC like Stun or Mezz or Fear going through after the bar is down.

And then there's often an immunity when the bar comes back up until it can even be damaged again.

And that's just one example of how it can be done on bosses. It's all just a matter of the class designers talking to the encounter designers and vice versa. "Easily" done (as easy as things can be in game dev) then.

As for the dungeon thing, other MMOs make their mobs and bosses deal non-trivial amounts of damage at non-trivializing intervals. That already solves the healer problem entirely.