Where is fun in 7.05 VPR?

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

You’re complaining because now weaker vipers that struggled to keep the buff up are now closer to you in skill level and so you’re not as special.

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If they struggled to keep up with an easy buff, they'll never be closer in skill level. I'm convinced it was a bunch of one-handed kirito cosplayers complaining. Nin main, I went viper, now viper feels braindead and basic, thus I went back to nin. The amount of care bears in this community will never cease to amaze me. Not every class should be accessible to everyone. There's a reason I admire black mages, but don't run the class in savage. They have something I don't and I'm fine with that.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Please explain what you mean in detail, cause everything I see is that the changes have done the exact opposite. There is less room for optimisation (since there is less stuff to track, and to adjust for in any given fight), and even less non-standard stuff as the rotation has been cut down quite noticeably, forcing it into a very repetitive mold.

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You can do more shenanigans with your Pots, you have more room for things like UF into Ire for some different buff aligments, right now mentors are looking yet again into triple awaken there is so much more stuff going on which wouldnt work before because of NG

"Stuff" to track isnt even a opti or anything, watching 3x in a minute a debuff, is no skillexpression or anything, people just thinking "oh i gotta watch a debuff now the first time i feel like a pro" hell naw, one application was through Dreadwinder which was a stronger filler anyway so it was a no brainer and then 2x dreadfang in a min, yea gotta need some serious skill for it.

NG was a limiter, it was the reason so much stuff didnt work

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

You can do more shenanigans with your Pots, you have more room for things like UF into Ire for some different buff aligments, right now mentors are looking yet again into triple awaken there is so much more stuff going on which wouldnt work before because of NG

"Stuff" to track isnt even a opti or anything, watching 3x in a minute a debuff, is no skillexpression or anything, people just thinking "oh i gotta watch a debuff now the first time i feel like a pro" hell naw, one application was through Dreadwinder which was a stronger filler anyway so it was a no brainer and then 2x dreadfang in a min, yea gotta need some serious skill for it.

NG was a limiter, it was the reason so much stuff didnt work

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If it's not fun to play now, who cares?
That's like saying storm's eye's a limiter on warrior. If you just alternated between eye and path combos because they bootshone them you'd be even more bored. It's also a pretty bad look when warrior of all jobs has more plates to spin than a dps.

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

To be honest, this is just a bunch nonsense. You’re not really complaining about any lack of optimizations. The reality is that jobs that have less rigid mechanics to maintain allow for much more Freeform development of their mechanics...

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While that may be, working to execute the limits within the constraints of a fight is fun to some of us. You don't get to declare nonsense here.

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You’re complaining because now weaker vipers that struggled to keep the buff up are now closer to you in skill level and so you’re not as special. But the reality is that the rotation became less rigid, not more like you and all the echos on this forum claim. You people just want to complain about everything. If you want to maintain a buff or a dot, go play dragoon and reaper. Go play Samurai if you want to do that while being a pure DPS. This so called thing they robbed you of on viper that have made you all behave so disrespectfully to the devs is hardly as serious as some of the other issues plaguing the job design and is really just another excuse for players to complain about simple jobs.

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How about the people that did not like Viper as it was released just go play Summoner instead, and leave those that enjoyed Viper the way it was with their class? We have enough simple jobs as it is.
This has nothing to do with feeling special and everything to do with "people enjoyed the NG upkeep minigame, which was removed without much reason, the plan of doing so having been created not even a week after the class was released, barely giving people time to learn how to play." Its incredibly arrogant of you to say these things, and frankly, it makes me not take you serious.

ETA: and speaking of "behaving disrespectfully", I have been in quite a few Viper feedback posts. Most negative feedback regarding the Viper change is incredibly in depth about how things have changed, while being nice and polite. Yes, there are some disrespectful people there, but that is expected in the forum. In the same vein, most pro Viper changes feedback I have seen in these posts can be summarized as "lololol the patch did not change the rotation go play something else you $somethingNotNiceToSay", which to me is a much more disrespectful behavior than people offering feedback. Food for thought.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

You can do more shenanigans with your Pots, you have more room for things like UF into Ire for some different buff aligments, right now mentors are looking yet again into triple awaken there is so much more stuff going on which wouldnt work before because of NG

"Stuff" to track isnt even a opti or anything, watching 3x in a minute a debuff, is no skillexpression or anything, people just thinking "oh i gotta watch a debuff now the first time i feel like a pro" hell naw, one application was through Dreadwinder which was a stronger filler anyway so it was a no brainer and then 2x dreadfang in a min, yea gotta need some serious skill for it.

NG was a limiter, it was the reason so much stuff didnt work

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Sometimes, things limiting a class makes them interesting, though. I do give you that more different pot alignments are interesting, but triple RA reads like an absolute nightmare to me, ngl.
Also, no matter how "little" skill you needed for NG, you can't deny that playing the class you now need even less skill. If it was so unimportant and barely did things, then it would not have needed to go, no?

It’s really, really not that big of a deal.

It’s really not. Sure, it changed the enjoyment for some in a negative way but for others it increased the enjoyment.

I seriously, wholeheartedly doubt they will reverse the change. If you don’t enjoy the class as much as before… fine. It doesn’t mean that it’s bad now for everyone now just like it wasn’t bad for everyone before.

There are 3 positions:
You like the change…
You don’t care about the change…
You dislike the change.

The former 2 will play the class regardless. If no change was made, the latter 2 would still play it. Personally, I feel for some of you guys who like to feel like they are optimizing. Me, personally, I’m trying to optimize in a different way under greater freedom than before.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Also, no matter how "little" skill you needed for NG, you can't deny that playing the class you now need even less skill. If it was so unimportant and barely did things, then it would not have needed to go, no?

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There it is, the crux of the issue. You're upset the floor of the job is lower than you would like it to be. You want to be THE viper and thats probably true of most of the people complaining here and in like 10 other threads spawned daily from people who are upset that the gap between them and mediocre vipers is now not as big.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

It’s really, really not that big of a deal.

It’s really not. Sure, it changed the enjoyment for some in a negative way but for others it increased the enjoyment.

I seriously, wholeheartedly doubt they will reverse the change. If you don’t enjoy the class as much as before… fine. It doesn’t mean that it’s bad now for everyone now just like it wasn’t bad for everyone before.

There are 3 positions:
You like the change…
You don’t care about the change…
You dislike the change.

The former 2 will play the class regardless. If no change was made, the latter 2 would still play it. Personally, I feel for some of you guys who like to feel like they are optimizing. Me, personally, I’m trying to optimize in a different way under greater freedom than before.

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This is quite literally the only post on this thread and threads like it that actually makes sense. So many people just getting mad to get mad because thats what we do. There are signficantly more pressing issues plaguing the class design than noxious gash dying after a month.

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

There it is, the crux of the issue. You're upset the floor of the job is lower than you would like it to be. You want to be THE viper and thats probably true of most of the people complaining here and in like 10 other threads spawned daily from people who are upset that the gap between them and mediocre vipers is now not as big.

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Way to put words and meanings into my mouth, incredible. I am lamenting fun that I had playing a class, not feeling superior to other people. I literally could not GAF as I am far from the best player, but sure, do pretend otherwise, if that makes you sleep at night.

I'm having fun :)

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Originally Posted by fulminating

If it's not fun to play now, who cares?
That's like saying storm's eye's a limiter on warrior. If you just alternated between eye and path combos because they bootshone them you'd be even more bored. It's also a pretty bad look when warrior of all jobs has more plates to spin than a dps.

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you just described ninja lol.