ARR was better

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Considering the game got harder in heavensward, and the players reaction to gordias and midas, no, it wasn't an over correction from arr, but from hw.

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I'm not really commenting on difficulty or anything specific really. I just think XIV in general feels pretty basic no matter what you're doing at this point. It feels steamrolled. That's why most people dig into the story, because everything else feels shallow.

That's why I mentioned relics and Island Sanctuary for example. These things are just missing a fun factor...maybe I'm wrong.

As far as encounter design I am unsure about the philosophy that jobs can become increasingly cosmetic and shallow in the name of whatever difficulty they're going for at the time, I will say that..I think that's an inherently flawed design choice.

You had to get off your chocobo to talk or queue into a duty.

Having to level another class to unlock a job was tedious. Having to level *several* classes to play your job competently was obnoxious.

Food buffs went away on death.

Just listing off other *features* that ARR had.

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Originally Posted by Xaphire

You'll take your floornament identity and you'll like it.

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I remember the 16-Bit Titan fight video they released where the DRG messes up all the mechanics and dies just moments into the fight. The devs themselves were mocking us.

Why don't we go back to Legacy they had:

• NMs that dropped actual loot.
• Chocobo Caravans
• Hamlet Defense
• Behests
• To Kill A Raven
• Destroy-able monster parts that effected loot and enemy abilities
  

Completely ignore the horrendous UI, UX, the basically built in 15fps, the 10s it took to actually select an ability, target the mob and attack it.

I think saying the whole expansion is trash based on flaws it had is an oversimplification. Just because devs correct flaws does not mean they introduce something engaging or fun in its place. They often make changes that don't feel.iterative or interesting, but more like a giant hammer.

This... this is bait right? Please tell me it is bait.

Jobs had identity - Ah yes the Identity of Dragoon dying if a boss coughed magically in their direction. Or Paladin going 1-2-3 again... and again... and again... There was some good job identity, don't get me wrong. Like Bard and Monk but uh... there was also a lot of very bad identity too.

Jobs had a reason to level multiple (cross class system) - The Cross Class System is one of those 'good on paper bad in practice' things. It seems like a neat thing. Until you get a healer who refuses to to get Swiftcast because they don't want to level Thaumaturge, or a Warrior without Provoke because they don't want to be a Gladiator and other similar stuff. Which happened faaaaaaaaar too often. Hell it was just not very intuitive either as a lot of sprouts didn't even know they had to do those things to get it. Or even do those things to unlock jobs. Remember when you had to level Conjurer to unlock Paladin? Pepridge Farm remembers and says good riddance.

Hunting log and the Hunt kept the overworld alive - As others have said, the hunt is still there, the hunt log was kind of pointless beyond leveling. It was the Fate trains that kept it alive. The best way to level at higher levels was to hit up the Central Coerthas or North Thanalan Fate Trains.

Things weren't handed to you (you had to work a lot harder to clear content and save allowances) - I uh... not really? The primals were a lot simpler, and hell the real challenge of Titan EX was the netcode and lag and not actual challenge.

The raids were harder and had more complex tank/healer mechanics - Eh... some were, some weren't. It's as hit or miss as it is now.

The dungeons were harder (lost city of amdapor anyone?) - Lost City of Amdapor was face roll easy at launch. The only one I ever saw that people struggled with was Pharos Sirius.

The relic was harder, involved the over world and HAD a gil sink, AND dungeons even contained some of the pieces, AND crafters could make money selling the weapon needed - Harder is subjective. Sure the relic specific trials were neat, but simple. Atma farming and books weren't hard they were just FF11 nightmare grinds.

levequests had meaning - Battle ones yes, I will give you that. Battle Levequests are gone for a reason. Gathering and Crafting Levequests still have plenty of meaning.

Grand company was useful - Eh? Not anymore than it is now. Sure a lot of materials were locked behind Grand Company seals but that was frankly it.

Glamour system was more robust - Okay you lost me here completely. HOW?!?!

Elemental attributes on gear - Was pointless. No one did this outside of super duper niche situations.

Tradeable raid glamour meant raids had value in clearing them weekly (the dreadwyrm attire) - As others pointed out, this was a HW feature not ARR.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Yeah, my job (Dragoon) had an identity in ARR alright, and it was awful.

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that hasnt changed tho

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

that hasnt changed tho

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Considering DRGs aren't completely barred from endgame content anymore due to their ridiculous inherent weaknesses (like low Magic Defense) and have actual party utility now, yeah, it's changed.

Any DRG who says they want to go back to the ARR days is a dirty liar or certifiably insane.

For me, the game is just flat out better now than it was.

Granted, I don't do high end content. So I can't comment on the coils of bahamut in particular. But I'll take the dungeons and bosses we've gotten in the recent expansions over ARR any day.

Paladin, my main job, has more identity now than it did back then. I enjoy Dragoon and Monk more than I did in ARR/HW as well. The other jobs I really enjoy playing, Dancer and Red Mage, didn't even exist yet.

The story, boss design, dungeons etc are just a lot more fun. Sure ARR experimented more in dungeons but a lot of those experiments were duds. Especially for content designed to be done over and over like dungeons in roulettes. I'm sure solving the puzzle in Sunken Temple of Qarn was fun the first time. Not so much as a new player coming in with people already knowing the solution and it technically being faster to just fail the puzzle anyway and not pick up the tablets.

I'm frankly glad the cross class system is gone. You shouldn't have to level other jobs just to get some key abilities like a taunt etc, or just to unlock your job etc. Being able to level everything on one character is a boon in FFXIV. Having to level say, archer or whatever to unlock black mage, or having to level paladin to play warrior effectively, was bad and I'm glad that system is gone.

For me the game has just gotten better with each expansion HW through SHB and even EW wasn't really a decline for me so much as just not as big of a bump up.

I don't miss having to reset my stats every time I changed jobs or waiting on CDs to reset after a wipe. Likewise, people also not having certain skills because they didn't have the job levelled. Swift cast res? Naw didn't want to level blm. You used up all of your TP (Also a thing back then you had to manage) on sprint and if you didn't have invigorate you kind of just did nothing. Then there was the accuracy stat point which you were forced to get up and had different amounts. Pretty sure you also didn't even get your tank stance until like near 40 for some reason lol. While I do miss some of the RPG features, I can't say I miss the jank.