I got a question! (PLD)

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Originally Posted by Vatom

This isn’t about a tank being better. It’s about fair is fair. I stated I will not continue to deviate the conversation. So again I ask what is the “Equivalent” to clemency for the other tanks?

All I ask for is a justifiable reason it’s there against other tanks that don’t have something similar. This is why I said to ignore the other abilities because people get locked in on the wrong thing. Each job has a way of tackling opposition (for a lack of words Flavor) if this is a flavor button what job(tank) has a button just for flavor and isn’t apart of it’s essential kit. You don’t need clemency now, yes it’s amazing to save party members I agree helps feed into that hero fantasy. But!! Fair is Fair right? If they have this then other tanks should to, maybe not same same in execution but solve the experience none the less.

My goal isn’t to just throw it away, that’s the last thing I want. But! You have to acknowledge that now that HS and HC can heal you as well as your burst. That since they gained this the should lose that, if not give the other tanks something. Because fair is fair, the reason they even got that was because of the other tanks having a combo that gave some healing right? The justification for PLD not having this was clemency but now the do have it so in all in all either get rid of the thing they complained about or give other tanks something to offset the gain.

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I respect your devotion to the topic, it's good to see people like you on here.

To answer it, no. We don't need an equivalent to Clemency. That's just going to homogenize the tanks further and take away that niche Paladin has in its kit. I don't want a clemency equivalent on the other tanks because they really don't need it. I play Paladin, but I don't main it, and I don't wish to get it shoved into my kit because "well this one has it, the others should too". I'm very against that sort of design. It's the Paladin's cake, I don't want them to be forced to give me a slice of it.

NF is tied to BW so it’s still once…why bring it up. You confirmed my points trying to give your weakness strength. Everyone’s utility skills cost damage since they don’t damage. Yes I went to the past since your bases for “stealing” came from a complete lack of knowledge. You aren’t worth my time in any kind of debt.
I’ll leave you with two life lessons.
1. When someone has to resort to insults during an argument, they already lost.
2. Never waste more energy than you need to discrediting rhetoric.

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Originally Posted by A-Omega

NF is tied to BW so it’s still once…why bring it up. You confirmed my points trying to give your weakness strength. Everyone’s utility skills cost damage since they don’t damage. Yes I went to the past since your bases for “stealing” came from a complete lack of knowledge. You aren’t worth my time in any kind of debt.
I’ll leave you with two life lessons.
1. When someone has to resort to insults during an argument, they already lost.
2. Never waste more energy than you need to discrediting rhetoric.

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If you really are trying to say Nascent Flash isn't a party utility because it's tied to Bloodwhetting, when they could easily just be the same button, then you're delusional and have no place in this discussion lol. I even stated that Nascent Flash stills heals you anyway. Would you still say Bloodwhetting isn't party utility if you could put it on another party member? That would defeat your statement of TBN being party utility.

I gave you even just the most basic of objective fact through minor research and you brought nothing to refute, just take the L dude

To answer it, no. We don't need an equivalent to Clemency. That's just going to homogenize the tanks further and take away that niche Paladin has in its kit. I don't want a clemency equivalent on the other tanks because they really don't need it. I play Paladin, but I don't main it, and I don't wish to get it shoved into my kit because "well this one has it, the others should too". I'm very against that sort of design. It's the Paladin's cake, I don't want them to be forced to give me a slice of it.[/QUOTE]


Good reply, but you just proved the point Vatom is trying to make.
SE set the standard that you can’t have everything. You can’t do damage if you have utility. BRD, DNC, RDM are examples of this. Having more is supposed to cost you and SE claimed that cost was damage. I don’t disagree with that at all, but once you set a governing rule…stand by it totally.
Personally I’m in favor of jobs having a personal feel no one else has. As for balance…balance is making them all viable in their role, even in the uniqueness. Seems to me this entire trend was meant to be an eye opener to the real problem. SE breaks their own rules when it suits them. It also enforces the “they shouldn’t have that” nonsense that plagues the forums. We all strive for uniqueness (which is why glam is the true end game) so why not mirror that in job play-styles. Unfortunately, jealousy runs deep in this community and years of enabling this kind of crappy behavior has painted them into a difficult corner.

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Originally Posted by A-Omega

...Good reply, but you just proved the point Vatom is trying to make.
SE set the standard that you can’t have everything. You can’t do damage if you have utility. BRD, DNC, RDM are examples of this. Having more is supposed to cost you and SE claimed that cost was damage. I don’t disagree with that at all, but once you set a governing rule…stand by it totally.
Personally I’m in favor of jobs having a personal feel no one else has. As for balance…balance is making them all viable in their role, even in the uniqueness. Seems to me this entire trend was meant to be an eye opener to the real problem. SE breaks their own rules when it suits them. It also enforces the “they shouldn’t have that” nonsense that plagues the forums. We all strive for uniqueness (which is why glam is the true end game) so why not mirror that in job play-styles. Unfortunately, jealousy runs deep in this community and years of enabling this kind of crappy behavior has painted them into a difficult corner.

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I've...never stated otherwise? I never said anywhere that Warrior should get all of it's healing removed, I only think it needs to be toned down a notch because it's ludicrously high right now.

Honestly Cover and Shield bash are both less useful I'd get rid of both way before clemency.

Clemency is
1. A good emergency tool that is actually consistent unlike cover.
2. Good Solo tool, blah blah "omg shield bash is like useful at stunning a mob"
3. A good progression tool, if you're learning a fight it's actually one of the best consistent skills at seeing fights longer and learning more.

Ideally clemency would be a OGCD MP tied ability leaving it so that if you spam it, by proxy you still lose damage because you have magic tied to damage, but good useage of it will lead to no such loss, maybe just remove healing on spell attacks though if this was ever a thing.

Do not mind me, I'm just gonna drop this for the repeated question of "what is the equivalent of XY on tank ABC". If there are questions, feel free to ask.

https://i.imgur.com/Hqp0xHZ.png

I did not include CD timers, mitigation % or heal/shield potencies for this spin, I am sure we can all read and refer to FFXIV's Official Job Guide (i.e. Ability list) for this. Here is a link: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/

Infuriate is Blood Weapon's equivalent, not Equilibrium. DRK doesn't really have an on-demand healing option. I would split resource generation and on-demand healing up because they're very different functions. If you're including resource generation on an otherwise defensive list, it probably makes sense to list gap closers (including Primal Rend) and include Shield Bash as well.

I think Clemency is a good choice aesthetically and illustrates how every instance of self-sustain does not have to be lifesteal. It just needs some situations in which it can be made damage neutral. PLD has historically had a few extra actions as a result of Stormblood, as it gained Total Eclipse as an extra action to offset Flash and had fewer action losses from the role action system.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Do not mind me, I'm just gonna drop this for the repeated question of "what is the equivalent of XY on tank ABC". If there are questions, feel free to ask.

https://i.imgur.com/Hqp0xHZ.png

I did not include CD timers, mitigation % or heal/shield potencies for this spin, I am sure we can all read and refer to FFXIV's Official Job Guide (i.e. Ability list) for this. Here is a link: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/

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Thank you. The blood weapon/ aurora I might have to debate on that but overall agree.

But sir the equivalent was just part of the question. If I might annoy you a bit. Do that it should be removed or that other tanks should have something with it (for a lack of words) potential? Also a personal question, I do apologize this seems off topic but it does affect my outlook. What about PLD pass block?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Infuriate is Blood Weapon's equivalent, not Equilibrium. DRK doesn't really have an on-demand healing option. I would split resource generation and on-demand healing up because they're very different functions. If you're including resource generation on an otherwise defensive list, it probably makes sense to list gap closers (including Primal Rend) and include Shield Bash as well.

I think Clemency is a good choice aesthetically and illustrates how every instance of self-sustain does not have to be lifesteal. It just needs some situations in which it can be made damage neutral. PLD has historically had a few extra actions as a result of Stormblood, as it gained Total Eclipse as an extra action to offset Flash and had fewer action losses from the role action system.

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Beautiful response thank you, if they could solve this issue I think clemency can go very far.