Yay, i get to play my job with no changes for another 2+ years...

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

That phrase killed whatever hype I had for DT ngl, going away from the 2m meta, healers being useless 1 button spammers, extreme oversimplification and homogenization is literally the only thing I was hoping DT to do and they wont even do that.

It seems they have not learned the lessons that no matter how varied or hard you make the content, without a good job design backing it, it will turn into a boring piece of content fast.

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Without good job design it hurts the Replayability the most, If every job plays very samey then what's the point of redoing content on a different job for a new experience, you've already done the "Content" you will get the same gameplay experience playing a Different job so it becomes just more bland to even do a fight on a different job, Which in turn actually hurts the content you are going through.

The fundamental Issue with EW as I see it was Always Job design, if Jobs were more fun and varied then it would take way longer if you played more jobs to get bored during a dull moment during a patch cycle. Leveling and learning jobs would be intresting, Ect.

Even one key issue, early level jobs being fixed would at Least make it so players would actually have fun synching down and doing old content, but it's just not fun or satisfying enough at 50.... 60... even 70 for a lot of jobs.

The content can be good, fun but the Jobs are what makes the game Interesting and unique, they're quite literally a core fundamental of a MMORPG, but Job design has been ignored for the sake of easy balance to avoid one job slightly underperforming, Healers are designed around healing but don't need to heal most the time, Tanks have become over time more easier DPS wise with no aggro management, Ranged losing most utility outside of buffing flat damage numbers, Even Melee feel a bit samey to me having very similar buffs a lot of the time getting more basic, ect.

It's really not a surprise anymore that jobs will likely remain in the 2 minute meta, Healers will stay the same, tanks will say the same, I think the statement was more that no fundamental job Ideals change, as a Tank player I can only hope that fight designs actually take into account tank mitigations and healers heal kits more at the very least but that's a stretch.

I think WAR is actually in a pretty good spot as it currently exists. It doesn't need any excessive makeovers.

And if they start reworking it, it could always end up like PLD... Where they completely reworked the class in 6.3 which nerfed the class severely, they've since slightly buffed it just about every patch afterwards and I think it's STILL weaker than it was before the rework...



But for Healers... I sure am looking forward to getting new OGCD ways to avoid casting heals, because that's what the devs think healers need and want.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I think WAR is actually in a pretty good spot as it currently exists. It doesn't need any excessive makeovers.

And if they start reworking it, it could always end up like PLD... Where they completely reworked the class in 6.3 which nerfed the class severely, they've since slightly buffed it just about every patch afterwards and I think it's STILL weaker than it was before the rework...



But for Healers... I sure am looking forward to getting new OGCD ways to avoid casting heals, because that's what the devs think healers need and want.

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I mean it’s kinda funny here you don’t make the connection that WAR is a big contributor to healers problems

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Without good job design it hurts the Replayability the most, If every job plays very samey then what's the point of redoing content on a different job for a new experience, you've already done the "Content" you will get the same gameplay experience playing a Different job so it becomes just more bland to even do a fight on a different job, Which in turn actually hurts the content you are going through.

The fundamental Issue with EW as I see it was Always Job design, if Jobs were more fun and varied then it would take way longer if you played more jobs to get bored during a dull moment during a patch cycle. Leveling and learning jobs would be intresting, Ect.

Even one key issue, early level jobs being fixed would at Least make it so players would actually have fun synching down and doing old content, but it's just not fun or satisfying enough at 50.... 60... even 70 for a lot of jobs.

The content can be good, fun but the Jobs are what makes the game Interesting and unique, they're quite literally a core fundamental of a MMORPG, but Job design has been ignored for the sake of easy balance to avoid one job slightly underperforming, Healers are designed around healing but don't need to heal most the time, Tanks have become over time more easier DPS wise with no aggro management, Ranged losing most utility outside of buffing flat damage numbers, Even Melee feel a bit samey to me having very similar buffs a lot of the time getting more basic, ect.

It's really not a surprise anymore that jobs will likely remain in the 2 minute meta, Healers will stay the same, tanks will say the same, I think the statement was more that no fundamental job Ideals change, as a Tank player I can only hope that fight designs actually take into account tank mitigations and healers heal kits more at the very least but that's a stretch.

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I think a lot of players don't recognize or weren't around to know that the pendulum has swung in completely the other direction. Back during Stormblood when gameplay was basically exactly what people are asking for now, they griped just as much about it. They didn't complain that job design and encounter design was too difficult, but rather it was a convoluted mess on nonsense. Some of the complaints were, but not limited to:

• Tanks staying in their defensive stance
• Tanks staying in their offensive stance, putting more pressure on healers to keep them alive (healers did not have as much oGCD power as they do now)
• Tanks positioning the bosses poorly
• Healers focusing too much on damage (i.e. not healing)
• Healers adjust (scapegoating healers for player dumbassery)
• AST numerous redesigns leading to 'delete WHM' threads and memes
• Bowmage
• Gunmage
• Monk job design
• Players not lining up their raid buffs
• Gatekeeping
• Job adjustments leading to leap frogging in raid content and forced job compositions (meta)
• Alliance raid abandons (often at the last boss, or penultimate boss)

I remember all of this, and the game in its current state has addressed every single thing I listed. Again, I am not saying the game as it is right now is a good thing, but rather the opposite end of an extreme that is in response to another. The game will never return to how it was in Stormblood, and that is a good thing, but it is also a very bad thing for the game to remain as it is right now. Another Myths of the Realm cannot be allowed, Tanks should not have the self-sustain they currently do, they need to give healers more to do, 2-minute meta has to go away or not force homogenization among the game's jobs.

We'll see what they've chosen to do very, very soon. Whatever it is though, we will have to live with it for another 2+ years.

The thing about warrior is I don’t understand why it has Nascent Flash or a party wide Shake it Off. Literally nothing about the identity of a berserker gives me “supports the party” vibes. I see a fighter who doesn’t care if their teammates live or die, they just fight till they can’t fight anymore.

Inversely, though, I do wish healing utility from jobs like Paladin and Dancer could feel helpful while also not impeding on the healing expected of healers. It’s so hard to add utility to jobs because the game stifles situations where utility can be useful. Silence? No harder fights have any interruptible abilities. Stun/Sleep? Few fights have adds where stun or sleep could be helpful, and even the ones where we do have them, those enemies cannot be CC’d. Esuna? Almost no fights inflict debuffs that can be cleansed. MP refresh? MP is basically just a window decoration at this point. Helping with healing could be another way some jobs could differentiate themselves if healing were something we needed more often.

Didn't YP say previously that we should expect 'new rotations' or something like that? Sadly I don't remember this precisely (or even to say if I read completely wrong) to get the quote from the keynote.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

The thing about warrior is I don’t understand why it has Nascent Flash or a party wide Shake it Off.

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You've been around a long time, according to your forum date? Back in Heavensward, there was a problem with Warrior and Dark Knight, which is they had no utility/party support compared to Paladin. This problem started to be addressed in Stormblood, where Reprisal became a Role Action and Blackest Night was added to Dark Knight so they could protect others.

But that wasn't enough. Warrior had nothing to bring to the table to protect others. It was selfish. In a patch, they transformed Shake It Off into a raid-wide mitigation that could be used to protect others. I was happy they found a way to build upon that in Shadowbringers with Nascent Flash. It was a unique way to go about it, dealing damage to heal others. Different from Paladin. Dare I say, unique and built upon its Bloodbath ability it once had.

(It is unfortunate that they gave Bloodbath away to all the DPS and wrecked that uniqueness, although I find it useful when playing DPS when I get tanks that don't know how to tank.)

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

You've been around a long time, according to your forum date? Back in Heavensward, there was a problem with Warrior and Dark Knight, which is they had no utility/party support compared to Paladin. This problem started to be addressed in Stormblood, where Reprisal became a Role Action and Blackest Night was added to Dark Knight so they could protect others.

But that wasn't enough. Warrior had nothing to bring to the table to protect others. It was selfish. In a patch, they transformed Shake It Off into a raid-wide mitigation that could be used to protect others. I was happy they found a way to build upon that in Shadowbringers with Nascent Flash. It was a unique way to go about it, dealing damage to heal others. Different from Paladin. Dare I say, unique and built upon its Bloodbath ability it once had.

(It is unfortunate that they gave Bloodbath away to all the DPS and wrecked that uniqueness, although I find it useful when playing DPS when I get tanks that don't know how to tank.)

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And let’s not forget which tank was in the toilet in HW

the tanks don’t inherently need raidwide support or other party member protection, that’s supposed to be the purview of the shield healers

Just pointing out the OP mentioned changes, not additional abilities.

Personally, I think most jobs are in a relatiively good spot right now. I've leved almost all the DPS classes now, and am currently working on Dragoon at level 85. I see no issues there either. Honestly, I think people are boosting and getting confused in the seeming swamp of new buttons instead of learning the right way, adding one ability at a time.

Sheesh.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I think WAR is actually in a pretty good spot as it currently exists. It doesn't need any excessive makeovers.

And if they start reworking it, it could always end up like PLD... Where they completely reworked the class in 6.3 which nerfed the class severely, they've since slightly buffed it just about every patch afterwards and I think it's STILL weaker than it was before the rework...

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I'm at the point where I want a massive rework for Warrior, even if it gets "nerfed", at least there's a possibility that it might evolve beyond "press button, spam Fell Cleave...but sometimes it's not called Fell Cleave".

CBU3 has managed to barely change the formula since 4.2 and somehow still made it the blandest, most braindead, iteration of said formula at the same time.

If you actually pay attention to the gameplay it's almost depressing, watching paint dry is more engaging.