What do YOU want out of a Dawntrail Deep Dungeon?

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

... you can just pick a zone to see how far you can get, and still come home with something even if you die or fail to reach the end.

in other words, it needs a tad more basic dungeon crawler/roguelike design, players need more incentive to keep going at it other than exp because wiping in DDs is incredibly demotivating.

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Good point. My experience in Orthos came down to slogging through twenty floors to reach the level 40 boss, having a confusing fight where things happened far too fast to learn what was going on (even after watching a guide), inevitably wiped and now facing the whole trek again just to have a second try at it.

So, two possible fixes for this:

Allow one or two retries for boss fights – either "extra lives" as in some solo duties, or just allow a restart if you die.

OR have "training versions" of the boss fights that get unlocked if you've seen the real boss at least once. No rewards, but you can practise the fight without hours of dungeoneering inbetween.

Or at minimum, let you keep aetherpool gains (and maybe Hoard sacks) if you reach the boss floor, whether you win the fight or not.

As much as I love Deep Dungeons, I was disappointed that Orthos died so quickly. If they do continue DD as it is, they need to develop something that keeps people going back in there. Rewards will last for a while but eventually peter out just like other things have. They would need something that gives it the same draw daily roulettes have. Including it in WT was a decent step, but not enough.

If they aren't going to do that necessary future-proofing, then they should probably just let the idea die now. Or just make it a solo system because then players can engage with it entirely on their own schedules.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

As much as I love Deep Dungeons, I was disappointed that Orthos died so quickly. If they do continue DD as it is, they need to develop something that keeps people going back in there. Rewards will last for a while but eventually peter out just like other things have. They would need something that gives it the same draw daily roulettes have. Including it in WT was a decent step, but not enough.

If they aren't going to do that necessary future-proofing, then they should probably just let the idea die now. Or just make it a solo system because then players can engage with it entirely on their own schedules.

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To be fair I’d argue HOH and especially EO’s problem is the design caters too much to solo challenges because of the necromancer drama when POTD was never supposed to be soloable (and you feel it because palace is still the most iconic and well designed, has any zone in any region evoked as much thought as to what the hell it is as the void floors of deep POTD)

If they don’t want to fully modernise the system to a 2023 rougelike with layers and layers of unique systems that’s a disappointment but if so they should go the palace route and make it long and exceptionally hard at the very deep floors, HOH really only challenges you above 85 and by that time you have like 6 floor clear pomanders, EO feels like it’s difficulty curve is entirely flat for all 100 floors

I'd like to see them experiment with the mechanics a bit. This is non-standard content, so there's room to break existing conventions.

The weapon/armor progression system could stand to be improved on. Making the player choose between randomized buffs that can be improved as you go deeper into the run could be interesting. These don't need to be simple stats buffs, they could be even job-specific effects like 'gain an additional Ingress/Egress charge'/'Low Blow gains a knockback effect'. Perhaps some upgrades could be completely new actions specific to the content, similar to the Lost Actions systems.

I wouldn't bother with the concept of 'withdrawing aetherpool to make a new weapon in future Deep Dungeons. Just let players apply the effect as a glamour at will once they max out. We're saturated with parallel weapon systems as it is.

There are probably more dungeon mechanics that could be implemented as well. Locked doors that offer shortcuts are one possibility. A low light level would be fun as well, with the option of lighting lamps on the floor to give a temporary boost to vision. A Persona-style Grim Reaper to chase you if you dally too long on a floor would be fantastic too, especially if you're given auditory cues to indicate their approach.

In terms of setting, I'd like to see something with a Nymian focus. Create locked passages that you can spend tonberry lamp oil on, dropped by mobs randomly. Accumulate curses as you climb that alter job and game mechanics (which get cleansed at the end of a run). Have dark floors that you need tonberry lamp oil to illuminate. Get chased around by Tonberry Stalkers if you spend too long on a floor. If they catch you, cue a Wanderer's Palace (Hard) style knife cutscene when they catch you, fading to the WoL waking up suddenly in an inn room unharmed but very worried. Maybe there is a Tural tie into this after all.

Also worth releasing it in two installments, like what was done with PotD. A longer climb would be more fun.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Oh can we agree that exploratory zones should stay non-existant for the rest of the game then! :D

Gotta have that fun new interesting content!

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If they come up with something more fun than those zones then sure. That's not a very high bar to clear.

• No Aetherpool grind. (Instead, like Bozja, open it up to outside gear from the point of reaching level cap, with means of acquiring gear that not only reaches the ilvl cap for here but, though at slightly lower effective item level elsewhere, is also useful to other areas of content in that expansion.)
• No grid system. (Procedural generation moved beyond placing random selections of premade assets from among a strict set in randomized locations... in the early 2000s. We can do better.)
  
  
• Fewer but far more involved and thematically cohesive floors.
• Perhaps multiple exits, offering some control over what kind of floor will come next.
  
  
• No long-ass CC traps. If any CC traps are to remain, they should be discoverable and able to be disarmed or rigged to also friendly-fire enemies.
• More environmental mechanics.
  
  
• A greater variety of challenges. Roaming avoidable packs and mini-bosses. RP scenarios and puzzles (both avoidable / one of multiple pathing options). Treasure hunts and hidden questlines (both optional). Etc., etc.
• Hidden shops / roaming merchants, shrines, hirable companions, crafting stations, etc.
• Mobs drop temporary items unique to this Deep Dungeon that can be used for crafting, barter, and/or sale.
  
  
  
• Per-run Rogue-like progression (temporary/instance-special-inventory 'gear', consumables, materials, and maybe also additional powers or skill upgrades).
• Backtracking permitted, but nothing stopping you from progressing to the next floor once you find the exit (not mob minimum). The increasing lack of gear from shortage of dropped items, gear, and materials when/if speed-running should be plenty to entice killing additional mobs, while still being selective about which ones.
  
  
• Further challenge modes, such as by fighting a timer (a true timer or just some pursuing danger or ramping difficulty) or adding additional affixes available.
• Perhaps the ability to purchase additional lives or at least to checkpoint (though the temporary gear is lost until retrieving your corpses).

I still think personally the only “good” floors of any deep dungeon are the void floors of palace or the dead

Those floors are terrifying because every floor must be tackled differently due to how dangerous every enemy is, they are moody and they are beautiful, if every floor was the quality of the void floors I would have like 200% less problems with deep dungeons but due to their design so much of them comes off as a waste

Of course this may be because it requires a lot of effort to even reach the void floors but the “seedy bathhouse” top floors of HOH or the “this is just coils by another name” deep floors of EO just don’t pack anywhere near the impact the void floors do

Vagrant Story deep dungeon, as a crossover that announces a remake of Vagrant Story using the FF7R engine.

I want change to the formula, add Eureka/Bozja style extra abilities, allow people to go with bigger groups, add more roguelite style modifiers and funky stuff.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

In terms of setting, I'd like to see something with a Nymian focus. Create locked passages that you can spend tonberry lamp oil on, dropped by mobs randomly. Accumulate curses as you climb that alter job and game mechanics (which get cleansed at the end of a run). Have dark floors that you need tonberry lamp oil to illuminate. Get chased around by Tonberry Stalkers if you spend too long on a floor. If they catch you, cue a Wanderer's Palace (Hard) style knife cutscene when they catch you, fading to the WoL waking up suddenly in an inn room unharmed but very worried. Maybe there is a Tural tie into this after all.

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I'd love this. Or a more Tural-appropriate analog, but ideally still with at least some tonberries.