The Tragedy about Manderville vs Brilliant Relics

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Every relic quest I have done, the real quests in the past, have all felt fulfilling when I completed them. I really had a sense of accomplishment when I finished. With the current relic, its nothing more than a tome weapon, there is no sense of accomplishment.

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every relic quest i have done i have felt relief i was done and didn't have to do it anymore for the weapon, no accomplishment no fulfilling feeling the most feeling was that my dread of doing it was over.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Every relic quest I have done, the real quests in the past, have all felt fulfilling when I completed them. I really had a sense of accomplishment when I finished. With the current relic, its nothing more than a tome weapon, there is no sense of accomplishment.

Imagine if they did the same thing to the Ultimate weapons that they did to the relic quest, turn in 1500 current tomes to get an ultimate glowy weapon. Doesn't feel good, does it? This is how I feel about what they did to the relics.

The relics were meant to be something, they showed that you earned them, not walked up to the cash shop... errr... vendor and bought it.

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If you hate how relics look then sure, this post makes sense. Also, not that I would personally care how others get their ulti glams (I am seemingly in the minority on this one though) but relics a bit different than ulti glams. No relic content ever asks you to play (atleast) somewhat skillfully, it just takes long. Atleast with previous relics. I'm always in favor of cutting boring grinds down.

Judging from most of the posts in here and in previous threads complaining about it, the reasons really come out to a pretty thinly veiled complaint that too many people have a relic.
That the value only comes form fewer people owning one, and too many people earning it too fast somehow cheapens your experience and the worth of your item.
It's complete nonsense to me, you aren't "earning" anything more by doing 11 runs of syrcus tower in DF than the person doing hunt trains to get the tomes for the new relics.
60 runs of alexander isn't somehow more compelling than 2 days of roulettes or somehow takes more skill or effort.

It's that when the grind isn't abysmally boring and frustrating to do, more people do it and your shiny weapons aren't special anymore.
They never were special though, they're just a glowy weapon that looks kinda cool and is BiS for ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Imagine if they did the same thing to the Ultimate weapons that they did to the relic quest, turn in 1500 current tomes to get an ultimate glowy weapon. Doesn't feel good, does it?

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Most raiders I've talked to who have done ultimate have said the weapons are ugly and the titles tacky, they don't do ultimate for those, hell most of them barely equip the weapons as glam.
They do it for the challenge not the flashy weapon or the title.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Hot take, I think people who clamor that grinding is fun are pretty delusional. I seriously doubt they have the same positivity when they actually have something to grind for. You know why? Its not because of the activity itself, its because grinding allows one to turn their brain off and do other things in the background such as chatting with friends or listening to videos or podcasts. Nobody gives 100% of their focus on the menial tasks for a grind. The hidden beauty of this system is that its a low effort dopamine hit for slowly getting that progression. And progression itself is fun! but the content itself should also theoretically be fun too. This is why people turn their brains off in say Fate/Hunt Trains or when you're doing Eureka or Bozja and slowly filling that challenge log. Heck streamers found a way to milk this system by using it as a pseudo-background form to interact with their audience.

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This take isn't without merit. Grinds such as these in a way give a reason to be active within a world we love, though at the same time I do believe there is a line to cross after which the grind itself becomes a rather horrible endeavor. In that sense, the EW relic is a success. Mechanically speaking, it's by far the most efficient way to make a relic we've ever had, and I've always made my hate for forced FATE farming, as someone who ran all 1080 HW FATEs for the ShB relics and made a few Zetas when they were current.

I'd say that Bozja and Eureka having a different game loop than the regular game also makes things rather unique. Lost actions and Critical Engagements make combat in Bozja more interesting than it would normally be, and Eureka actually forces you to be mindful of where you are in the map, or you'll be killed and punished. I think it's all these intentional variants that make the journey feel interesting and unpredictable.

I also draw the line when RNG is involved, because then it really starts to feel like a waste of time. This is a bit of a deep cut, but I remember myself farming for the Atma of the Ram in the middle of the night, watching FNATIC lose to OMG at the LOL Worlds Championship, and it was memorable... but in the worst way possible, and it very much aligns with what you said about some grinds just being background activities.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

a pretty thinly veiled complaint that too many people have a relic

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Oh no, please don't get the wrong idea. This is about the engagement experience I feel the Relic quests deserve, not about how many people have them. I find such exclusionary attitudes to be rather insufferable and a bit childish. Anyone that dedicates their time to whatever content they wanna do is deserving of their reward. Heck, I've advocated for the Zeta relics to be made more accessible. I don't care if I spent 100 hours making a Zeta when it was new. They're really pretty weapons locked behind some of the most ridiculous stuff these kinds of quests have to offer. I think it'd be lovely if more people got to make them and didn't have to suffer grinding a single Atma for 5 hours like I did.

To me it really just boils down to the fact that I'm not feeling engaged with the Manderville weapons as I did with my previous ones, and I feel there's ways to improve on it. That's all.

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To everyone: I'm not sure how many daily posts I have left, but I do appreciate everyone who's chimed in and participated (or will continue to post) in the thread! I only wish someone upstairs would notice, but I guess that's the forever-lost-hope. So if I stop answering, I prolly ran out of posts!

Relics aren't mandatory, and people aren't inherently entitled to obtain every reward in the game without engaging with its related system

SE absolutely needs to stop alienating fans of existing systems by sacrificing/gutting said systems in order to cater to people who don't even like them in the first place. This applies to everything from relics to job design. The tome weapon already exists for people who want to passively obtain a strong weapon via tomes.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Most raiders I've talked to who have done ultimate have said the weapons are ugly and the titles tacky, they don't do ultimate for those, hell most of them barely equip the weapons as glam.
They do it for the challenge not the flashy weapon or the title.

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As an ultimate raider myself, this statement is false. Yes people do think the weapons are ugly, but you are wrong saying that they still don't do it for it. Most raiders I know will equip the title and weapon for a month or so until it loses sentimental value to them. They worked hard for it, yes they are going to use it even if it's lame. Not everyone of course, but most will until they get bored of it. Same as any other new flashly galmour or weapon. Nobody uses it forever.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

As an ultimate raider myself, this statement is false. Yes people do think the weapons are ugly, but you are wrong saying that they still don't do it for it. Most raiders I know will equip the title and weapon for a month or so until it loses sentimental value to them. They worked hard for it, yes they are going to use it even if it's lame. Not everyone of course, but most will until they get bored of it. Same as any other new flashly galmour or weapon. Nobody uses it forever.

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Using a weapon glam you think is ugly is kind of a self own but with ulti glams it really is about showing off for many people. Something that old style relic enjoyers on here have by and large rejected in my experience.

You had way too much fun with this.

I would like to see Relics being useful in the current patch they release until the next step is available to upgrade them. They could use the current raid tier or even alliance raid for the few last steps, this would makes us engaged with the patch more than a week / a few days. Grind or boring tomestones they are just for cosmetic at the moment which is really sad. Currently farming the ARR relics, it's more fulfulling than the Manderville ones when you complete one.