why the devs take the lazy way out on low lvl content scaling?

make jobs learn their entire rotation in... 60 lvl.... i dont care about 30 lvl without new skills if it means i can use 30 lvl my whole nice rotation

since they tweak rotations around as they want and we always lose something before we get new skills in the new expansion it doesnt matter anyway. the last two expansions felt more like 'changing' the job than really getting stronger.

there is no point anymore in leveling up even more lvl to learn ne skills which are just a replacement for old skills we learnt a long time ago but got deleted

They probably would have to scale the potencies for lv.90 skills down so much that it would be just miniscule. Theyd also have to scale up mob and boss damage to balance the mitigation and healing kits veterans have.

The issue with scaling is the lower leveled players that lack all of their abilities. How would you balance that properly so that everyone in the team no matter the level discrepency can feel equally contributive?

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Originally Posted by Asari5

make jobs learn their entire rotation in... 60 lvl.... i dont care about 30 lvl without new skills if it means i can use 30 lvl my whole nice rotation

since they tweak rotations around as they want and we always lose something before we get new skills in the new expansion it doesnt matter anyway. the last two expansions felt more like 'changing' the job than really getting stronger.

there is no point anymore in leveling up even more lvl to learn ne skills which are just a replacement for old skills we learnt a long time ago but got deleted

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But then that would just kill meaningful character progression with leveling. I mean I know this game already heavily triviliazes character progression to be so easy but do we really need to butcher the rpg aspects even further?

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Not lazy, just practical. A few thoughts:

1.) It's physically and literally (in the actual meaning of the word) impossible to balance the presence or lack of skills. For most abilities, either you have some people (higher lvl) having to do many more abilities just to achieve the same damage as a lower-level player with only a couple abilities, or the players with higher lvl just obliterate everything and leave the lower level players the content is designed for feeling worthless (never a good thing).

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Actually true. In WOW, where scalling is a thing, my lvl 20 twink with max gear it can get totally destroy dungeons or people in PVP.
On the other hand, in GW2 dungeons, fresh lvl 35 just cant keep up with players who use classess and builds those low lvl cant get hands on yet. Making them feel like getting carried hard.

In order to fairly retain skills from higher levels, you would necessarily have to reduce potency of skills already learned by that level in some weird hodgepodge algorithm to make it comparable.

Like, let's say you have a combo at L90 that does 1000 potency. Say 100 first skill -> 200 second > 250 third -> 350 fourth. The new players don't have that same combo, they only have the first two skills (so they can combo up to 300 potency). Even doing two cycles of this, for the same number of GCDs (four, two times two), they'd be doing only 600 potency for every time the L90 player is doing 1000. And mind you, this is ignoring traits/transforming skills that become stronger versions over the course of leveling.

So what do you do? Make the L90's abilities about half(ish) as potent? 50+100+200+250 = 600? See, can't even just cut everything in half, instead need to manually tweak every skill to match the highest-potency combo the at-content-level players would have. What if the newbies have the third combo skill there? Now you need to account for them doing 650 damage every three GCDs, except you'd have to balance it out with algebra and shit cuz the "GCDs performed" line only matches at 12 (they've done 4 full combos with 3 skills, you've done 3 with 4 skills). You wanna do the math there? Cuz I don't feel like doing so. Now balance out a job with 5 or 6 skills in their full rotation, or alternate branches where the "middle" skills are different (speaking honestly, yes, I can only talk about DRG from experience - but there is indeed a 12345 but there's also a 1ab54. Also 1 becomes a higher-potency skill after doing the last hit in the combo. Also after doing two 1s (modified) you get another OGCD attack that literally doesn't exist for the lower level player - factor that into your math).

You gotta get parity somehow, otherwise every duty becomes a carry by nature (regardless of how you feel about sprouts' general capabilities, there is no denying that if you're doing almost twice the DPS they possibly can, all else being equal and even if they ARE using their skills perfectly.) By its nature, you rouletting is you helping someone else complete their duties at the level OF that duty - usually for actual new players, or lower-level alt jobs. It's fine and well for the latter, the faster they can grind their 10th job to 90 the better; but a new player is not necessarily looking for a carry and/or basically-unsynced run (which your higher potency makes it, albeit maybe you being unsynced a few levels higher vs level cap running a L20 unsynced and you 1HK everything with basic attacks). You are now imposing that on them though, whether they like it or not.

Edit: I guess, true to the thread title, you might call this "lazy"? That they aren't willing to factor in every permutation of every level's skill availability, and how much they need to change the overlevelled jobs' potencies? Like, they already seem to struggle enough not cutting out skills and balancing what they do have - the real lazy thing would be level cap rotations being simplified to 1-2-3 with one or two OGCDs acquired by L50, and then just making you stronger by traits like "skill 1 becomes SUPER skill 1" or "all damage increased by 10%".

I'd honestly take this "lazy" way to whatever the hell they have in WoW. Awful experience in levelling ever since they first introduced it. Legion dungeons were undoable if your party were all 30+s and not a bunch of 10s demolishing packs with a breath.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

But then that would just kill meaningful character progression with leveling. I mean I know this game already heavily triviliazes character progression to be so easy but do we really need to butcher the rpg aspects even further?

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If by "meaningful" you mean all the rehashed skills that they've been returning to jobs over the years that had gotten cut.
My WHM hasn't gotten any meaningful character progression since HW as everything else, barring 3 skills, is a rehashed version of something that I either already have or lost in some way in the past with minute differences.
Temperance = Divine Seal
Divine Benison = Stoneskin
Aqua Veil = Protect
Afflatus Solace = Cure 2
Afflatus Rapture = Medica
Afflatus Misery = Aero 3

That leaves only Thin Air, PI and Lilybell as the only new skills that weren't already accounted for since HW and Thin Air was lowered down to 58 so it's already available in HW. One could even argue that Lilybell exists to serve as a replacement for scenarios that were previously handled by pre-nerfed Thin Air+Cure 3 spam but being locked away at level 90 means it can't even be used in half of those scenarios in the 1st place so it's even less useful in that regard UNLESS a low level version of it was available.

This might only be true for WHM but strictly speaking, there are a number of skills that could easily be brought down to a lower level without much issue in regards to balance since they were previously balanced with other skills and abilities being available at the time.

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

the real lazy thing would be level cap rotations being simplified to 1-2-3 with one or two OGCDs acquired by L50, and then just making you stronger by traits like "skill 1 becomes SUPER skill 1" or "all damage increased by 10%".

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This is literally MNK past level 60

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

why as we go lower that current level content we lose skills. as of lvl 90 any thing under lvl 60 is close to not playable and under 50 even more so. why not let you have the skill but adjust them for the content ? then there be some lvl of fun in this old content that out side of being forced in to by roulettes no one really do.

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I honestly agree with this.
It would also be fun for newcomers to get an impression of the skills and spells they might acquire once they reach higher levels.

The problem with FF version of level scaling is that it makes content worse over time. In ARR 2.0 the level 50 content let you use the full extend of your class' skillset. And while that skillset had very different abilities than a level 90 skillset nowadays, it still felt like playing a fully developed class. But now classes have so few abilities at level 50, it feels a bit like a level 1 class doing starter quest for hunting boars. And if FF continues to progress like in the past, that will get worse up the level stack more and more.

The arguments about level 50 content that isn't designed for level 90 abilities is not valid afaik. That level 50 content was originally designed for very different classes anyway. And those higher level abilities do not sufficiently create new gameplay mechanics that trivialize content. It's more about balancing damage/healing/mitigation, and that is actually easier at level 90 than with existing level scaling. At level 50 class balance is completely out of the window. It would be much preferable to take the far better balanced level 90 classes, and only give them potency/mitigation nerfs when level scaling to bring them in line with lower level content.

So I fully agree level scaling should be changed, both for balance and for fun.

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Originally Posted by SXTC

It would also be fun for newcomers to get an impression of the skills and spells they might acquire once they reach higher levels.

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This isn't what would happen at all, what would happen is that the newcomer would just watch a level 90 SMN blast Denn the Orcatoothed with Akh Morn+Deathflare, end the fight in 3 seconds, because even with sync'd down stats you aren't meant to have a 1300 pot attack at that level, and feel like they didn't get to play the game at all, it sure is something fancy to look at but being carried isn't always fun.