PLEASE update Trusts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

Dude you think that the number of encounters/bosses has no bearing on how long a dungeon is. I can't even with you. Done with your "no you're wrong because I said so" argument.

---

If you have 3 bosses with 15k hp each or one boss with 100k. What is going to take longer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

If you have 3 bosses with 15k hp each or one boss with 100k. What is going to take longer?

---

Well, when you're hitting the 15k hp boss for only 15 dmg each time and the 100k boss with 100 dmg each time, they'll probably take around the same amount of time.

So if there's four 15k hp bosses, it'll take longer for you to get through all four than the three 100k bosses. Unless you really want to sit there and try to say that you're doing different percentages of damage between ARR and SHB dungeons/bosses, in which case lmao and show me the numbers.

And you never answered the question as to why on God's green earth would Square Enix spend extra time, money, and resources on changing the Duty Support AI for ARR & HW if they're functionally no different from SHB Trusts. They put that money and time into updating the AI. That's what they did. And the only thing I'm asking for in this thread is to take that updated AI and put it into Trusts. This whole "Square Enix is trying to fool you" thing you've been trying to push is absurd and makes no sense from a logistical or business standpoint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

Well, when you're hitting the 15k hp boss for only 15 dmg each time and the 100k boss with 100 dmg each time, they'll probably take around the same amount of time.

So if there's four 15k hp bosses, it'll take longer for you to get through all four than the three 100k bosses. Unless you really want to sit there and try to say that you're doing different percentages of damage between ARR and SHB dungeons/bosses, in which case lmao and show me the numbers.

And you never answered the question as to why on God's green earth would Square Enix spend extra time, money, and resources on changing the Duty Support AI for ARR & HW if they're functionally no different from SHB Trusts. They put that money and time into updating the AI. That's what they did. And the only thing I'm asking for in this thread is to take that updated AI and put it into Trusts. This whole "Square Enix is trying to fool you" thing you've been trying to push is absurd and makes no sense from a logistical or business standpoint.

---

I see you are just wildly making up extra stuff instead of answering the question, doesnt matter. Every single duty support/trust has be specifically designed for each dungeon. What I call falling for SE's slight of hand is you thinking that aoe vs no aoe matters. It doesnt. NPC damage scales in real time depending on your damage output to ensure an intended dungeon length. They could do all AoE every attack in shb dungeons and that is entirely seperate from how long the dungeon takes.

The simplest solution here is to realize Duty Support/Trusts allow you to basically (in some cases, literally) afk through any dungeon. Stop trying so hard, you're really not getting anywhere much faster. Let the NPCs do all the heavy lifting like they're designed to do. Press any random button every few seconds to pretend like you're contributing. Just keep in mind there's no payoff for extra effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

I see you are just wildly making up extra stuff instead of answering the question, doesnt matter. Every single duty support/trust has be specifically designed for each dungeon. What I call falling for SE's slight of hand is you thinking that aoe vs no aoe matters. It doesnt. NPC damage scales in real time depending on your damage output to ensure an intended dungeon length. They could do all AoE every attack in shb dungeons and that is entirely seperate from how long the dungeon takes.

---

Saying that damage scales with level is "making stuff up." Amazing. Incredible. Flawless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

Saying that damage scales with level is "making stuff up." Amazing. Incredible. Flawless.

---

It's meant on the same level, one chain of 3 bosses back to back with 15k each or one singular boss with 100k. No where did I say I was talking about different levels. You just made that up, just like you made up a fourth boss. This was a response to you saying:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

Dude you think that the number of encounters/bosses has no bearing on how long a dungeon is.

---

Anyway, you're still missing the point and you are doing so with surgical precision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

It's meant on the same level, one chain of 3 bosses back to back with 15k each or one singular boss with 100k. No where did I say I was talking about different levels. You just made that up, just like you made up a fourth boss.

---

So you're telling me that you do the exact same damage numbers in ARR dungeons that you do in SHB dungeons? You hit a boss for 2000 dmg in SHB dungeons and then you roulette into an ARR dungeon and you're still hitting bosses for 2000 dmg? Because that's the only possible way your 15k vs 100k boss argument works.

And Brayflox has four bosses, so.

I cannot believe the amount of gaslighting that's gone on in this thread. Here are some other things that are bs:

- The SHB Trust NPCs do not do more damage if you stop hitting your buttons. I tried this twice in Holminster Switch. The dungeon took 50% longer to beat.

- The SHB Trust NPCs do not switch to AOE attacks if you pull W2W. I tried this three times in Malikah's Well and once in Mt. Gulg. Thancred died before even one enemy did because Alphinaud couldn't keep up with the healing, and I wiped every single time.

- The SHB Trust NPCs and the ARR/HW Duty Supports are not functionally the same because you CAN pull W2W in ARR/HW dungeons and not die. Ysayle had no problems in Sohm Al when I tried it, and that dungeon is filled with poison at parts.

The new Duty Support AI is better than the SHB Trust AI. Period. And I just want the SHB Trusts to be as good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Anyway, you're still missing the point and you are doing so with surgical precision.

---

That's because your point is just a meaningless theoretical that's backed up by "bro trust me." You haven't given me a single shred of evidence that Trusts attacking one at a time vs Duty Support using AOEs is the same. All you've done is just state it while not so subtly calling me stupid for being "tricked" into thinking otherwise.

I have been actively playing in the Duty Support and the Trusts for the past two months trying to get an alt to all jobs at 90. There is a marked difference between the two. Don't tell me that there's not, because this is literally the bulk of what I've been doing in the game nonstop.

Again: if there was no functional difference between the new Duty Supports and the SHB Trusts, then why would they bother changing the behavior of the AI at all? Seriously. If they produce exactly the same results, why did SE bother spending dev time, resources, and money to make the behaviors different? Especially when the team is already stretched thin thanks to FFXVI.

It's because they don't produce the same result, and the newer content is better tuned. And I certainly would hope so, since SHB came out nearly four years ago now.

If you can come back with an argument with more substance than just "shut up, even" then I'll entertain it. But I've lost my patience with this. I'm not replying to you again.

You are applying player mechanics to NPCs. Our potencies are set in place, you can look them up in tooltips. I'm always casting holy at the same potency regardless of how much everyone else is doing. This does not apply to NPCs. Their potencies are not set in place and will adjust like other people in this thread have correctly pointed out. The goal of duty support is provide a longer dungeon run than the average duty finder run. This is what NPCs are tuned to. For this approach it is entirely irrelevant how NPC actions look or what they are called. A timelength is determined per dungeon by SE, NPCs are scaled to that time.

You are getting it backwards. The design process isnt 'lets decide on which actions and stats we will give the NPCs and see what happens from there' (they did this with squadrons). It's 'we want this dungeon to take this amount of time and are adjusting dps behind the scenes on the fly to ensure that'.

I think the Trust System is well-balanced. Queues are instant. You can force them to double-pull. Generally speaking, the Trust healer/tank seem to play by different rules than standard players. I can't recall a single time the Trust tank died because the pull was too big. It means you have to provide most of the AOE DPS to bring down that group. First few times I ran a dungeon on a job with the Trust System, it probably took around 28-30 minutes. But you are forced to play your job better and then I think many of the EW dungeons could be cleared in 23-24 minutes.

The only thing that bothers me about the AI of the Trust System is that these are supposed to be the Scions of the Seventh Dawn - warriors of great power. And they really don't fit that bill. Y'shtola is supposed to be powerful and wise wizard, yet she just spams Scathe or something. And Alisaie n00bs it up casting the mage LB when the first boss is at 1%. Great job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Had a Holmester Switch run that took 40 minutes with actual people.
Trust cleared in 25 minutes tops.

There are people that play that badly.

---

Especially if you are a healer who is putting out DPS or a BRD/MCH/DNC who is using peloton between pulls to force faster running.

My average runs were generally ~20 min give or take a min or two on either end. And yes, some of my Trusts runs were indeed faster than some of the real players I got put with in the DF.