The New Job (If Any) Added In 7.0 Will Likely Be Scouting Melee DPS

Ninja has basically been slowly going the way of the selfish dps for a while now ,, lost most of it's support when ShB came out. Then TA went from 10% to 5% every min to Mug 5% every 2 Min .. Now that they sorta redacted their stance with mch by giving it utility back , the whole 1 selfish dps per role really doesn't apply anymore IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if they got rid of mugs 5% debuff next expansion and just goes full selfish

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

cough

On a serious note though, no, we shouldn't be advocating for the 'removal of content', but that's why the above idea doesn't 'remove' content, just repurposes it slightly. Though thinking about it now, I've not really put any thought into the Morbol achievement. But we can just move it from 'challenging BLU only content' to other 'challenging BLU only content'. Easiest solution would be to move it over to getting every secret achievement (Perfect Blue etc) I guess. With the exception of A8S, every 8man BLU raid's hardest mechanic is gonna be 'getting 7 other people who play BLU' (lucky me I did it when it first came out)

Don't think of Carnivale/learning as 'content that will be removed', think of the pitch as 'BLU is as real a job as BRD, and Carnivale/learning is it's Performance side-content'

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I can't tell you how disappointed I would be if we were finally getting a new caster job and it turns out to be... Blue Mage... again.

Please... Geomancer, Onmyoji, Ascetic, hell even Void Mage would be preferable.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I can't tell you how disappointed I would be if we were finally getting a new caster job and it turns out to be... Blue Mage... again.

Please... Geomancer, Onmyoji, Ascetic, hell even Void Mage would be preferable.

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Yes Geomancer please. It’s time. They been teasing this job since Stormblood.

Geomancer? Really? I just don't see it personally. Partially because they outright say 'yeh it's astro, but attuning to our star instead of the other ones in the sky' lorewise, but also because of what they'd have to do to the 'identity' of the job to jam it into the game. Since it's 'identity' is that it has a skill that adapts it's effect based on the terrain, my only assumption is that it'd be based around having 'zones' and standing in a 'zone' would change how it's skills work. Which would just mean it's 'ley lines: the job', complete with self-griefing due to aoes dropping on the terrain zone you wanted to stand in for your burst window. If I had to guess what Caster they'd add though... yeh, they'd probably cave to the masses and give us GEO. Which, now I think about it, would be doubly insulting, because WHM lost it's elemental theming.

As for 'Blue Mage again', I'd personally argue we didn't ever get Blue Mage in the first place. I've played a lot of FF games, but none of them told me 'sorry, you can't finish the game with the BLU in your party, swap to a different job to continue the story'. But if people really want to keep it wheelchair'd as it is for whatever reason, I'd rather see more unique stuff. Like I was hoping for Necromancer as a healer, rather than as a caster, because everyone and their ma does Necro as a caster. We got Sage which is cool in it's own right, but a 'darker' healer would have been an interesting twist.

But while BLU remains 'limited', the worry of 'well my favorite job is in the game, but it got limited' remains. Anyone who wanted to main BST or PUP might get screwed by it being 'limited'. BLU was a lot of people's favorite class aesthetic, copying enemy skills and throwing them right back. I just can't fathom why anyone would want to push for that risk, of someone else's favorite class aesthetic, to get kneecap'd and kept 10 levels behind, and for what? An 'identity' that was present in (to my knowledge) one other game in the series? Because it's got OP skills like LV5 Death, which doesn't even work in most fights because SE can just give immunity to bosses?

If I were working for SE I'd put GEO in, sure. But it'd be a tank. The caster would be, idk, Time Mage or something. Make it have attacks that hit 'in X seconds' like that Bratz doll looking goth from SHB raids, and have skills that manipulate the timers, like doubling their 'time till detonation', or instantly setting it to 0 to cause everything to blow up at the same time for burst window. Though, this would anger the AST players as they lost their Time manipulation stuff wayyy ages ago, so we're in the same boat as WHM/GEO.

We are likely done with getting Healers and Tanks, considering how harder they are to balance around the more there are of them.

I actually dislike how each melee have separate gear, it doesn't make them really unique or cool it just makes gearing melee pretty annoying. I much rather they just give Ninja ranged or Sam/MONK gear in the future but I doubt that, gearing up is already a mess if you "main" melee.

I also wouldn't really want another "Selfish" melee dps, I'd be interested in a more supportive utility Melee (similar to how old ninja was apparently), I just really don't think we need more selfish jobs or jobs that give out a 120 Raid buff! beyond that we already have 5 melee, I think we're due for another Tank, Ranged or Caster more then anything

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I doubt we will be getting any new Tanks or Healers, period.
It was clearly a struggle for them to come up with the job design for Sage as it was, coming up with a fifth healer job mechanic doesn't seem likely. Plus we are looking at 20+ jobs now, it's getting very hard for them to manage.

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By this same argument, we won't get any new DPS Jobs. RPR was clearly a struggle for them to come up with as it was, creating another DPS Job mechanic doesn't seem likely.

Not to be snarky, but look at how many DPS Jobs have variations on basically the same theme.

Contrast with Healers, where they all have effectively the same basic rotation (DoT + Glarespam), meaning there's far more room to add something - anything - distinct from that. Not to mention it's not hard to come up with new healing mechanics. People pitched Chemist with a Mix command that might work like NIN Mudras. That would already be completely distinct. SGE having a SMN or RDM level of rotation (the core rotation, not all the frills and CDs) with Kardia would be a unique take on a Healing Job, they just didn't want to do it.

On the other hand, what can we get from another Scouting Job? "Well, this one uses burst on 2 min CDs then has a resource generator/spender rotation and pools resources for the next 2 min burst window while aligning any buffs it has to that window"; "So...you mean like literally ever other DPS Job in the game right now?"

Until they make the combat system less rigid so it allows things like DoT gameplay (Green Mage) or pet gameplay (Beastmaster) or a more robust buffing gameplay (Time Mage), there's really no where to go with new DPS Jobs. Geomancer is often described as "RDM, but Melee with a Caster phase" because there's literally no where else to go. And that's what PLD already is, and arguably NIN.

"But this one uses one handed axes!", we could have a new Healer or Tank that uses a different weapon type. That alone isn't sufficient for DPS if it isn't for Tanks or Healers.

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I DO suspect we likely will start getting just one new Job per expansion, but there's no really good argument to make for more DPS Jobs and not more Tank or Healer Jobs. The game also apparently has another 10 year plan. That's at least 5 expansions before "maintenance mode".

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

cough

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Don't think of Carnivale/learning as 'content that will be removed', think of the pitch as 'BLU is as real a job as BRD, and Carnivale/learning is it's Performance side-content'

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Again, look at the SMN change. The reason New SMN is so hated isn't because it sucks - many people like it. Even people that don't like it see it as more true to SMN's thematic class fantasy. The reason it's so hated is because of what it removed, Old SMN. If New SMN and Old SMN co-existed, people wouldn't have a problem with New SMN other than the tryhard elitists that like to puff themselves up talking down anything "simple".

For BLU, as I said, you'd need to make it to where it can be used as either the "standardized" Job at max level or the "expanded" Job at 10 levels less. That way, everyone would win, but it would have to be programmed that way. Anyone that thinks they want BLM with BLU skins on the spells is lying to themslelves, most likely, and if they somehow aren't, are ignoring all the people that would hate that.

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Originally Posted by Styrmwyda

We are likely done with getting Healers and Tanks, considering how harder they are to balance around the more there are of them.

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This same exact argument applies to DPS meaning we are likely done getting DPS Jobs?

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I actually dislike how each melee have separate gear, it doesn't make them really unique or cool it just makes gearing melee pretty annoying. I much rather they just give Ninja ranged or Sam/MONK gear in the future but I doubt that, gearing up is already a mess if you "main" melee.

I also wouldn't really want another "Selfish" melee dps, I'd be interested in a more supportive utility Melee (similar to how old ninja was apparently), I just really don't think we need more selfish jobs or jobs that give out a 120 Raid buff! beyond that we already have 5 melee, I think we're due for another Tank, Ranged or Caster more then anything

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Agreed. NIN should use Aiming or Striking gear going forward. Probably Aiming since that's easier to backdate. Make all legacy Scouting gear usable by NIN + Ranged and all past and from now on Aiming gear be usable by NIN + Ranged. Problem solved. Bonus points, it means Ranged wanting to sub-Melee or Melee wanting to sub-Ranged have an option just like Healer/Casters have (in a different way) SCH/SMN. Alternatively, they could just put it on all past and future Striking gear (and put Dex on all Striking gear like ARR did), but that would probably be more work. Would NIN have an "unfair" advantage making more of them like SCH/SMN? I guess...but is that really a problem?

Melee is the only subrole in the game with 3 armor sets to itself. And it's only the left side, since all but NIN share the right side Slaying accessories, and NIN uses Aiming ones already. All the other roles COMBINED only have 4 with Fending, Healing, Aiming, and Casting. Melee should be 1. 2 tops. Instead of cementing this further, we should be moving away from it.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Geomancer? Really? I just don't see it personally. Partially because they outright say 'yeh it's astro, but attuning to our star instead of the other ones in the sky' lorewise, but also because of what they'd have to do to the 'identity' of the job to jam it into the game. Since it's 'identity' is that it has a skill that adapts it's effect based on the terrain, my only assumption is that it'd be based around having 'zones' and standing in a 'zone' would change how it's skills work. Which would just mean it's 'ley lines: the job', complete with self-griefing due to aoes dropping on the terrain zone you wanted to stand in for your burst window. If I had to guess what Caster they'd add though... yeh, they'd probably cave to the masses and give us GEO. Which, now I think about it, would be doubly insulting, because WHM lost it's elemental theming.

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I don't understand how people have such a hard time imagining Geomancer when we literally have an entire multi-duty questiline involving Geomancy, and a Dungeon that features actual Geomancers.

It's always "aren't they just Astrologians?" as if people ONLY remember the small cameo role in the AST job quests, and not the much more substantial and much more lore-heavy Four Lords questline and Swallows Compass.

Secondly, even IF geomancer was just a 'knock off' of Astro or White Mage, it wouldn't be a healer... It would be a caster DPS job. It would be using similar spells, in the sense it would be using Earth, Wind and Water, but it would be using them via a DPS rotation. It would be far more indepth than the 1 DoT and 1 single target spell that White Mage has.

As for mechanics. Many jobs have ground target spells. Things like Doton, Salted Earth, Slipstream, etc. Geomancer could double down on these for it's AoE's, and use them for both damage dealing, and for it's party utility. I'm not going to try to fit a whole job concept in this post, there are many out there already.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

As for 'Blue Mage again', I'd personally argue we didn't ever get Blue Mage in the first place. I've played a lot of FF games, but none of them told me 'sorry, you can't finish the game with the BLU in your party, swap to a different job to continue the story'. But if people really want to keep it wheelchair'd as it is for whatever reason, I'd rather see more unique stuff. Like I was hoping for Necromancer as a healer, rather than as a caster, because everyone and their ma does Necro as a caster. We got Sage which is cool in it's own right, but a 'darker' healer would have been an interesting twist.

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I have absolutely played BLU in FF14, I've played it to death, and while it would be nice to bring into some new content. I want a NEW job for the next NEW job we get, not a job we already have and I've already played.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

But while BLU remains 'limited', the worry of 'well my favorite job is in the game, but it got limited' remains. Anyone who wanted to main BST or PUP might get screwed by it being 'limited'.

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Unfortunately, there are going to be a limited number of jobs in the game. They can't just keep adding more and more jobs, each new job increasing their workload exponentially, and this game has a lifespan.
FF11 has 22 jobs in total.
FF14 currently has 20 jobs.
There are 87 different recurring jobs across the Final Fantasy franchise. They are not all going to happen.

But, there is a chance we can get extra jobs, in the form of limited jobs. These don't increase the workload exponentially. They're more or less 'one-and-done' content dumps that don't require new quests each expansion and 5 additional weapons every patch.
As such, BST and PUP are actually perfect examples of jobs that should be limited jobs, because I'd wager we won't be getting them in any other capacity.
Would you rather have BST and PUP as limited jobs, or not at all?

I know I prefer BLU in it's current iteration, over not having BLU at all.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If I were working for SE I'd put GEO in, sure. But it'd be a tank.

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...why?

I hope it's double Hook Blades and playstyle of it should be like mnk a strong dps with a bit utility.

Really, magical DPS and a tank is most likely scenario. It seems like releasing jobs by role, rathter than by gear type has been more of a priority and they have actively decided to avoid 2 dps roles at once releases after Stormblood. And of 3 dps roles, one that went longest without a new addition is mDPS, who last had Red Mage back in SB. And since the second job has to not be DPS and we just had a healer, it will be a tank. Simple maths.