Clockwork Castletown is a terrible map for casual players

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Originally Posted by Valence

Still unsure what point you're trying to make by replying to me since the beginning?

I'm not losing the will to live by playing it. You should actually read what i'm writing, maybe that's the issue?

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i am reading what you are writing. that is, in fact, the issue.

very fun using salted earth to drag eveyone into the robot aoe

Castlework Castle town is a terrible map. Period.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Well yeah, then let's say it's a skill/glue issue, then what am I supposed to do? If I don't follow, I'm not even helping and I leave them 1v4 as ranged player. If I go another way, I'm mega exposed and if they even notice me and jump me, I would essentially have leroyed them away from my team.

This is slowly starting to turn me off that map altogether, even though I don't hate the map per se. I just think that random players are unable to cope with its specifications and it makes the whole experience way more lopsided and miserable most of the time. Now then the elephant in the room is, do we keep blaming the human races for being monkeys, or do we adjust the map designs with that in mind? Truly there has to be some kind of balance to reach there? Could we consider closing those doors for at least until the crystal is unlocked?

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I'm waiting to see if people start catching on with how they are starting. I will admit that I was caught off guard following the crowd. I happened to catch on after a good 5 games and laughed about it.

I don't like the map being played on ranked. However, I had 2 easy nights, and I ended up going from bronze to platinum. I'll revisit later on and post my thoughts once I get enough high level games in.

New map is fantastic. Very fun, lots of tricks to be explored and discovered. Much more preferable to Cloud Nine or Volcanic Heart.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

I'm waiting to see if people start catching on with how they are starting. I will admit that I was caught off guard following the crowd. I happened to catch on after a good 5 games and laughed about it.

I don't like the map being played on ranked. However, I had 2 easy nights, and I ended up going from bronze to platinum. I'll revisit later on and post my thoughts once I get enough high level games in.

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They still sure haven't on my DC. More than on any other map, the winner on this map usually is the team that sticks together. Scattering all around is a surefire way to disaster.

I also do think that the design layout of this one is problematic somewhere because everything snowballs so much worse. People say the crystal points are very exposed for melees, but I somewhat disagree in the actual result since melees can also take cover and hide behind the inner corners of those points. Coming in to storm that point is a nightmare, because while you can hide behind the corners for sure, the entry point with the mats is a no go because it forces you to commit or die from the mats, and the two other venues are extremely narrow points where the first person to peek out will get stunned and pummeled to death, and i'm not speaking about a stack of people showing up and eating massive AoE nukes all at once (or a sneaky DRK salted earth to pin them in). Unlike other maps, you have to actually run a long way to get to the crystal and I feel it's a problem, it's like storming a machinegun point by running over a long distance without any cover.

In my opinion the map new tricks and layout with many paths encourages players to bad strategies (like using the doors for openers, running all around the different paths, etc), while the actual winner is as usual, and even more than usual, to stick together. The crystal control points are even better for that since there is a wide enough room to spread out to prevent the enemy to apply too much AoE pressure. Even C9 crystal points aren't that wide open, like on all maps so far they're in a corner, but on castletown, they're right in the middle of a highway. On top of it, other maps have various entries all around those crystal points, where castletown only has realistically 2 at very opposite sides, which means splitting your team if you want to take advantage of this. The mats, once again, are extremely hazardous to go through when the enemy sees you coming from miles away and can just stunlock you there and giggle.

tl;dr: the attacking points for the crystal checkpoints on the map are mediocre/bad and that's what contributes to even more lopsided games, much like the amount of pathways encouraging people to split even more.

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Originally Posted by Valence

They still sure haven't on my DC. More than on any other map, the winner on this map usually is the team that sticks together. Scattering all around is a surefire way to disaster.

I also do think that the design layout of this one is problematic somewhere because everything snowballs so much worse. People say the crystal points are very exposed for melees, but I somewhat disagree in the actual result since melees can also take cover and hide behind the inner corners of those points. Coming in to storm that point is a nightmare, because while you can hide behind the corners for sure, the entry point with the mats is a no go because it forces you to commit or die from the mats, and the two other venues are extremely narrow points where the first person to peek out will get stunned and pummeled to death, and i'm not speaking about a stack of people showing up and eating massive AoE nukes all at once (or a sneaky DRK salted earth to pin them in). Unlike other maps, you have to actually run a long way to get to the crystal and I feel it's a problem, it's like storming a machinegun point by running over a long distance without any cover.

In my opinion the map new tricks and layout with many paths encourages players to bad strategies (like using the doors for openers, running all around the different paths, etc), while the actual winner is as usual, and even more than usual, to stick together. The crystal control points are even better for that since there is a wide enough room to spread out to prevent the enemy to apply too much AoE pressure. Even C9 crystal points aren't that wide open, like on all maps so far they're in a corner, but on castletown, they're right in the middle of a highway. On top of it, other maps have various entries all around those crystal points, where castletown only has realistically 2 at very opposite sides, which means splitting your team if you want to take advantage of this. The mats, once again, are extremely hazardous to go through when the enemy sees you coming from miles away and can just stunlock you there and giggle.

tl;dr: the attacking points for the crystal checkpoints on the map are mediocre/bad and that's what contributes to even more lopsided games, much like the amount of pathways encouraging people to split even more.

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I think the only reasonable point of entry is through the side door and trying to jump them before they can do it to you.

They really need to at least make the visibility better on that map. Some of the "eye" mechanics can reach you from beyond your sight range if you aren't paying attention while fighting and the walls make some of the corner spots claustrophobic.

I'd still rank the map above C9 but worse than the rest, it's playable but kinda janky.

I actually prefer C9 even though it lacks fundamental cover (which can help games to snowball bad as well). The middle of C9 is actually not very far off from the open shooting range of Palaistra in the middle. What it lacks is the side ramps that go all the way unless they're lit up. The real issue I have with C9 is the area behind the crystal checkpoints, that are also open as hell and have the same issue that castletown actually, but located around the spawn point rather than the checkpoint: if the enemy has taken position as a team here, going out of the spawn is literally jumping under a machinegun.