Let's redefine "damage taxes"

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I don't think current machinist is as easy as people claim either, atleast when you're trying to optimize it and not just press random buttons.

Your big hitters like Air Anchor, Chain Saw and Drill can easily start to drift when you mess up at specific points, but it still doesn't come close to the nonsense that was this
Where a single mistake or unfortunate phase change timings could cost you a ridiculous amount of dps.

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MCH became incredibly rigid it's easily among the most rigid jobs as of now. Wildfire and Barrel Stabilizer are clogging the heat at the 2 minutes.
Flexibility allows skill expression and Rigidity just punishes you if you don't execute perfectly the rotation.

And MCH is designed with 2 gauges and short CD with a sustained DPS.
Everytime there's a downtime higher than 20s, you lose a drill, 20-30 battery and 30-40 heat while Air Anchor, Chain saw and Wildfire benefits from it.
Jobs like Dancer doesn't suffer from job gauge at all, in fact they most likely benefits from downtime. And jobs like Dancer are extremely flexible.

One of developer's main design flaws is DPS output based on job difficulty.
Job difficulty is subjective. Is Monk difficult? Ask me, and I'll say yes, because I have hell of a hard time tracking my buff timers. Someone else might not, finding the job pretty easy. This alone makes it impossible to balance with job difficulty in mind.

Besides, do people actually WANT jobs balanced around difficulty? I can only talk for myself, and I definitely do not. I honestly do not care, if someone else can deal the same amount of DPS as me, by pressing only one button.
I play a job because I like its aesthetics and/or its rotation flow.

What I don't like is underperforming, not because I play poorly, but because someone believes I should. Absolutely no one wants to deal less damage with their job than someone else with another. If the reasoning is "but your job is easier", then make the job harder.

"Difficulty is subjective"

Yes, do tell me how running is easier than walking. Hint: it's not. Some Jobs are factually easier than others, just the truth, deal with it

Don't feed the troll guys.

Anyway, that's an interresting idea, some buffs would need to be adjusted or roles moved around (RDM's one has been mentionned) but I think that this, mixed with a change on raidbuff cooldowns to move away from the rigid 2 minutes could do a lot of good for the game.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Don't feed the troll guys.

Anyway, that's an interresting idea, some buffs would need to be adjusted or roles moved around (RDM's one has been mentionned) but I think that this, mixed with a change on raidbuff cooldowns to move away from the rigid 2 minutes could do a lot of good for the game.

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Right, I think the idea of RDM being low personal DPS but tons of raid buffs is core identity and thematic to the job. Even in FF1, RDM's main purpose was to buff your melee with Haste and Temper while providing small personal damage themselves and having backup heals. They were also very good at cleaning up trash efficiently as their lower stats/spells didn't matter as much on trash. So, they'd kill the trash nicely, then in harder fights focused more on support. That's job identity for RDM to me, given they're not the Enspeller spellblade Mystic Knight type like they sort of had in FF11, so I think emphasizing more on Embolden and other raid damage buffs is what they need. In FF3, you only used them early game to clear a few magic only dungeons then swapped off as fast as possible, and in FF5 you only used them to learn Doublecast on your other real magic using jobs. They've never really been known to be monster powerhouses of personal damage, so placing them just above BRD and DNC makes sense. I love RDM, and I love playing RDM that way.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

"Difficulty is subjective"

Yes, do tell me how running is easier than walking. Hint: it's not. Some Jobs are factually easier than others, just the truth, deal with it

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We're getting to the fun part.
Walking is easier than running but you're picking 2 examples that aren't hard to begin with.
Both requires the same thing: Alternate the movement between your legs. The difference is the speed at which you do so.
The complexity of "walking" and "running" is the same, the difference being speed..

If we were to take your example, your DPS rotation is nothing but pressing buttons and higher APM jobs are harder as your complexity example is the speed between each buttons.
Which means, by your very own logic of walking and running, MCH is hard and RDM is easy.
And according to you, that's a fact.

Your next line is "Positionals are hard"

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

We're getting to the fun part.
Walking is easier than running but you're picking 2 examples that aren't hard to begin with.
Both requires the same thing: Alternate the movement between your legs. The difference is the speed at which you do so.
The complexity of "walking" and "running" is the same, the difference being speed..

If we were to take your example, your DPS rotation is nothing but pressing buttons and higher APM jobs are harder as your complexity example is the speed between each buttons.
Which means, by your very own logic of walking and running, MCH is hard and RDM is easy.
And according to you, that's a fact.

Your next line is "Positionals are hard"

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Imagine saying MCH is harder than RDM and trying to do so seriously. You're funny

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Originally Posted by Mithron

Right, I think the idea of RDM being low personal DPS but tons of raid buffs is core identity and thematic to the job. Even in FF1, RDM's main purpose was to buff your melee with Haste and Temper while providing small personal damage themselves and having backup heals. They were also very good at cleaning up trash efficiently as their lower stats/spells didn't matter as much on trash. So, they'd kill the trash nicely, then in harder fights focused more on support. That's job identity for RDM to me, given they're not the Enspeller spellblade Mystic Knight type like they sort of had in FF11, so I think emphasizing more on Embolden and other raid damage buffs is what they need. In FF3, you only used them early game to clear a few magic only dungeons then swapped off as fast as possible, and in FF5 you only used them to learn Doublecast on your other real magic using jobs. They've never really been known to be monster powerhouses of personal damage, so placing them just above BRD and DNC makes sense. I love RDM, and I love playing RDM that way.

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I don't care about FFXI. This is FFXIV where DAMAGE matters. I find extremely absurd you saying RDM has tons of raid buffs. RDM has only two buffs which is Embolden(offense) and Magick Barrier(defense). PERIOD. MNK has the same quantity of buffs which is Mantra(defense) and Brotherhood(offense). "Ohhh but RDM has Verraise" Verraise isnt an utility at all because it's a DPS loss and RDM is a DPS! I agree Verraise is great for progging but that's only it because for a clear party is useless where you need that DPS check and sometimes need all players alive to resolve some mechs. It just doesn't make any sense RDM doing less dmg than SMN even when not using Verraise.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Imagine saying MCH is harder than RDM and trying to do so seriously. You're funny

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Congratulations you completely missed the point showing your argument of walking and running was flawed.
I increased the text that I did not said so, but your logic applied to the game would imply that MCH is harder than RDM.
You claimed walking is easier than running, therefore you claim high APM is harder.

I didn't said anything about MCH and RDM difficulty, you're the one who brought the logic that implied it.
I merely pointed out it was flawed, therefore arguing high APM is not harder than low APM. Therefore, arguing it doesn't make MCH harder than RDM.

Thought I'm sure you're doing it out of bad faith and copium, trying to sneak a "win" after all your failed arguments.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Congratulations you completely missed the point showing your argument of walking and running was flawed.
I increased the text that I did not said so, but your logic applied to the game would imply that MCH is harder than RDM.

Thought I'm sure you're doing it out of bad faith and copium, trying to sneak a "win" after all your failed arguments.

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Swing and a miss. See what you're actually doing is a combination of two fallacies, putting words in my mouth, and strawmanning. Because in the end you can't counter that difficulty isn't subjective. RDM has several things that make it more complex than MCH; reacting to RNG, having to deal with cast times, having to deal with being in melee range, the worst movement in the game, etc. Meanwhile MCH has the 2nd easiest rotation and absolutely no downtime (even melee have some downtime here and there like on KBs you have to take, e.g. Impact). But by all means, continue to act like you know what I said better than do