Samurai Buff

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Originally Posted by Latarma

as my lb as dragoon doesn't go threw guard, nor do i have any form of CC or stun. so imo if Sam wants changes then add a fear effect to horrid roar and make wyremwind thrust it's own button and retune my missing jumps.

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Originally Posted by Karasio

And horrid roar is great IF you can hit someone with it and IF they're targeting you but as soon as you get CC'd and they walk away or if you're just not being hit it loses any value outside of the sad little 4k or so damage it does.

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I don't think fear will help

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Originally Posted by Latarma

as my lb as dragoon doesn't go threw guard, nor do i have any form of CC or stun. so imo if Sam wants changes then add a fear effect to horrid roar and make wyremwind thrust it's own button and retune my missing jumps.

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Nah adding fear to Roar would only make pvp even less interactive than it is now, since it's a form of CC that breaks guards and can't be cleansed. I'd rather see hard CC ripped out of other jobs' kits and guard-ignoring moves reworked. There's just way too much right now. But separating wyrmwind from elusive jump would be very nice, since it's one of dragoon's two dashes and in order to get to use our strongest ability we have to waste a dash that breaks binds. The whole thing with wyrmwind and elusive being in one button just kinda works against itself, because you'd use a dash to get in close to someone more often than not but wyrmwind scales off distance AWAY from the target. Just a bit stupid.

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

You've basically just said that "Horrid Roar is good if you use it correctly" and then "but it's bad if the person counterplays it".

I think it's fine where it is, right now it's nice to combine with every other life of the dragon buff so you don't get dicked as easily and you can really use it to hold the point for a short period of time if you need to, if you're holding off for your team.

I agree that the LB is fine where it is, I would make 0 changes to it in either buffing or nerfing it.

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Honestly the only reason why dragoon LB is balanced is the 5 seconds you're forced to just fly around before being able to use the damage portion of it. If more LBs had something like THAT, there'd be a lot more to play around not just summoners and white mages deciding "hmm yes I'll drop my instant cast 18k damage nuke on the whole enemy team". Like with samurai, a 24k nuke through guard is already really strong for closing kills on people turtling or just getting some unblockable damage in, with an AOE. It really doesn't need the insta-kill portion. And we could go on for a while like this

If SAM's LB gets it's 100% HP damage effect removed than i want it to charge way faster as a trade off

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Originally Posted by BRVV

If SAM's LB gets it's 100% HP damage effect removed than i want it to charge way faster as a trade off

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It pierces guard and does AoE damage. Literally an unavoidable nuke. It's already REALLY DAMN STRONG in case you need it spelled out for you.

SAM has a bad kit and the LB is a big part of it. Deal 8k less with WhiteMage LB that also stuns and heals. When has someone ever died from something a SAM does besides the LB btw?

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Originally Posted by BRVV

SAM has a bad kit and the LB is a big part of it. Deal 8k less with WhiteMage LB that also stuns and heals. When has someone ever died from something a SAM does besides the LB btw?

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Ah right because you're supposed to do everything, aoe bind, stun, multiple dashes AND the ability to 1v5 all the time.

Samurai doesn't have a bad kit, and that's without mentioning the mitigation buff, double hit that gets empowered on a single target or a shield on multiple.

Oh yeah that buff that last 5 seconds (less than what you are CCed probably) and is on a huge cooldown. Hey that long cooldown stuns also ignores stun! (With it's little damage). Most people i hear complain about SAM being too strong never played it and died once or twice to the LB without ever realizing they had the debuff on them. Should i list stronger jobs?

"Do everything job" - The MELEE with CAST TIMES, long Cooldown on key abilities and an easily avoidable kill LB (unlike Monk)

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Oh yeah that buff that last 5 seconds (less than what you are CCed probably) and is on a huge cooldown. Hey that long cooldown stuns also ignores stun! (With it's little damage). Most people i hear complain about SAM being too strong never played it and died once or twice to the LB without ever realizing they had the debuff on them. Should i list stronger jobs?

"Do everything job" - The MELEE with CAST TIMES, long Cooldown on key abilities and an easily avoidable kill LB (unlike Monk)

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I literally just checked and samurai's cooldowns are very much in line with the rest of the melee cast. 20 seconds on Namikiri (8k hit which has an instant free followup, both doing 12k on an isolated enemy or an 8k shield on 2 or more targets) and on midare (which comes with CC cleansing btw). And also an aoe lifesteal lmao.

For comparison, dragoon has 20 seconds on Geirskogul (which is a 4k hit which increases damage taken, leading into nastrond which scales up to 8k with lower HP) and elusive jump. Your stuff is literally not out of line compared to other jobs lmao.

Reaper's big boy nuke is on a 60 second cooldown ffs.

I was talking about those CCs that you mentioned. SAM's are all cleansable and on a longer cooldown or part of a combo. You never address the melee caster angle. What about that? By the fact that SAM is a melee who has cast times the kit would need to be better to justify the casting but 36k MCH LB go brr. Reaper's big boy nuke? That's not the uncleansable fear effect right? I'm just asking because SAM has no uncleansable CCs. Yeah it has an additional Purification. That has the same timing problems btw :)

SAM cast times in pvp just don't make any logical sense. Its fine in pve, but throwing cast times onto a melee in pvp is never a good thing unless the burst justifies it like how it was for sentinels in swtor with master strike, but that was a 3 hit channeled skill that hit extremely hard and did damage during the casting. It also rooted the opponent in place.

I think leaving cast onto ogi namikiri is fine if they increase the potency on it, but midare probably shouldn't have a cast time in pvp. SAM isn't really bursty enough to justify a melee having to cast so much to burst. Majority of the time when a SAM jumps me I just walk away from them or CC them real quick as I'm really never worried about their burst since its a super obvious cast animation with an extremely loud audio cue.