Or they could simply be more interested in the Season 2 storyline and gameplay as opposed to content from 8 years ago. How people engage with the game is not for you to decide, whether or not someone spends 2 months doing the story vs rushing it to go hang out in Island Sanctuary or go raiding isn't anyone's business but their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
Of course this partly depends on how much Season 2 will draw upon the base setup by Season 1. We still have literally no idea what they have planned for the story but it'll almost certainly involve the continued adventures of a hamburger-eating cat and two elf twins who can't help but cause regime change wherever they go, it seems.
Making the case for a new starting point in 7.0
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02-24-2022, 12:12 AMaveyond-dreams
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02-24-2022, 12:19 AMIllmaeranG'ronald M'cdonald!Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
Personally, I'm more interested in helping Tataru take over the world. It's wise to stay on the good side of any Mastermind. -
02-24-2022, 02:07 AMConundrumThis game is not going to be turned into another MMO where all that matters is "moar raids", if you want that I hear Blizzard has the game for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novae
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02-24-2022, 02:07 AMJeeqbitRight but if the game is giving you a popup that says "Skip? Yes/No" then some people will conclude they are supposed to skip it when they aren't supposed to skip. The items costing money is a way of making it clear that this isn't what the game designers want you to do because they have designed the game around the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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02-24-2022, 02:20 AMaveyond-dreams
You don't need to phrase it like that. You could call it "Create Season 2 character" or "Create Hydaelyn vs. Zodiark Arc Character" etc and instantly you've just given the player a lot more agency as to how they want to go about things. Give a description of what each Season is about, and let the player decide what story they want to play through.
And also yes, there should absolutely be more level 90 battle content but to reduce things to just "more raids!" is not an honest way of engaging with the sentiment. Right now there's basically raids, 3 dungeons (none of which have any glamour worth grinding), only 2 ex trials (one of which is literally just hideous accessories), and treasure maps. The options for what battle classes can do at the moment is significantly reduced compared to how varied our options were in say 5.35.
I thought Bozja was fantastic. If it were possible, I'd love to see zones like that release in the .1 patch if not with the expansion itself. You don't even need to attach a relic weapon to it. Just give me some different currencies or experience and I'm good. As someone who started in ARR, my interest in roulettes has diminished over time and I find the current max level gameplay more enjoyable. Thrusting Ishgard Restoration upon us with as much force as they did in Shadowbringers was a mistake.
I am in support of whatever provides the most convenience. I do not believe that the option to skip the story or to start at a later point cheapens it in any way, and am unlikely to be convinced of otherwise. It's like asking whether I'd like to play Assasin's Creed Odessey or Assasin's Creed Valhalla. Same "world" and gameplay essentially, just a different story and set of locations. The most player friendly option is to enable them to begin at their desired point, whether through a skip or the creation of a Season 2 character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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02-24-2022, 02:28 AMIscahPreviously you seemed to be in support of one free skip per character. That should not involve it being an in-game "create season 2 character". I don't believe there should be such a thing as a "season two character" because that does devalue the story that came before and make it optional whether it exists relative to the story in 7.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
It should be a skip. A free voucher to buy a skip from the online store and use it on your character. Still clearly fast-forwarding over story that does exist and is now marked complete for your character, which is a very different thing to entering the story as a character who never participated in the previous events. -
02-24-2022, 02:34 AMShougun
Not going to really care to argue for when as I think that's just a decision beyond my desire to make lol, but I believe it'll have to happen at some point. It's like 400+ hours now to catch up to players, and the story skip does both teaching the game lore and battle poorly (aka not at all). 400+ hours by the way is a great thing for some players, it isn't like "oh my god 400 hours how could it be so!! oh no!!!".. just that for some people that is an insane mountain and probably going to be a huge turn off that will grow stronger with each moment. I believe unnecessarily so, too.
Mentioned the alternate start idea before as well, so obviously I'm in favor of it as a concept. I think you could have a lot of fun with it too on a few levels.
A. I personally don't think the start of FFXIV is up there in terms of top exciting starts for an MMO, so in general I think it's an opportunity to make the game hook harder. To be fair not the worst- by far, just not my favorite either.. the pacing and order of operations.. the sense small town journey lost by just arriving at the main city, etc.
B. With the MSQ+ system you can go back as the player who took the story skip / alternate start and enjoy the story later if you wanted, and also the players who don't need the story skip could also use the system to enjoy the extra content as like a mini-dlc. I propose also keeping a lot of the rewards behind the MSQ, such that if you wanted a free fantasia and you used the alternate start then you might later go back and do that content. Similarly there might be a reward behind the alternate start, nothing insanely major but still kind of neat - or at least exp bonuses, and players who don't need the alternate start would still be able to enjoy it as if it was just a quest they can do.
C. Story skip is awful introduction, imo, but a alternate start could help give players a much stronger grasp on not only their job / gameplay ideas but also the lore. Therefore imo if we have to start doing jumps I think the alternate start is a superior (but obviously more costly) solution.
Maybe a bonus D but besides having nice pacing opportunities (A), I think you could hit some fun angles for the starts. Like having a Cloud falls into mako inspired journey (FF7), with some character(s) helping guide you out as you piece together your memories (learning lore and combat at the same time). Can even have wild tie-ins like maybe an Ascian is primarily the guide that helps you sift through your memories (there are two I believe could easily be the ones that do that without even having to 'retcon' anything). Another idea I had suggested was related to taking inspiration notes from the trailers themselves to give a bit of personal connection to them (hey that was me on the Ishgard mountains before the avalanche swept me down), etc.
As should be obvious, and have said before in other threads that this topic was brought up, I don't believe there needs be two stories. Just use the classic, and yes overly used, memory like stuff. Bonked on the noggin, drowned in mako, cursed by a great magic, not worth mentioning event, silent character moment, etc, etc. The game doesn't need to write two different parallel stories... at least depending on where it lets you in, the game will need to add some details in the alternate start so you're not absolutely lost though. But say give ShB for example, most of the important references to old content were re-explained in ShB itself incase you forgot.. this means it's not too big of a deal to be partially lost because depending on the place you might just pick up the knowledge as you go. "Don't you remember that time when we sealed an ascian in white auracite?" WoL: .. . . yep!. Player: (white auracite seals ascians.. good to know, I wonder who I sealed- maybe I should go back later to do MSQ+). This is akin to starting some of the trilogy games out of order, it's entirely do-able. Of course like I said it would depend on where you are let in, and if the alternate start can pad your landing a bit (which a story skip doesn't pad anything at all, hence I think it's a worse solution.. at least compared to a few hour alternate start that doesn't require an entirely rewrite of large sections of the MSQ).
Or think of it like how FFXIV Legacy worked, there were a few changes in dialog but really it didn't create two whole new MSQs. Legacy players started from 1.0 and in a sense you could say 2.0 (ARR) players had the 'alternate' start. Of course it's a bit more complicated than that since there was some retcon and stuff lol, but vaguely similar concept already done in FFXIV. Now just do it smoother and not because the game is dying... :p...
I can only imagine if they did nothing about this and they plan on keeping the game going to 10 years that we're going to have like "750+ hours to get to current game ultimate content" and any player looking on from the outside in is just going to laugh and not even bother because they're never going to be able to catch up until the next FF MMO game is out lol. If you absolutely rush, and reduce enjoyment of the journey (or have already done the content before, which adds speed as well), or pay nearly the price of the game itself again to skip poorly then of course you can make shorter time but neither of those seem like very good designs (free potion would of course make it less painful but I don't think that's better than smoothing players in via an alternate accelerated start). -
02-24-2022, 05:33 AMJennah
... why? The game is essentially over once you hit maximum level and complete the MSQ.
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02-24-2022, 06:22 AMIllmaeranI disagree. While I don't have a set journey to follow when the MSQ's done, I still find plenty of enjoyable things to do. Perhaps it's because I'm a casual magpie that does whatever I feel like doing at that moment rather than a more serious person focused on fully completing one or two aspects of the game, but I can always find something to do when I feel like playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennah
In some respects, once the MSQ's done, the game begins. All the zones are unlocked, you can fly, and there's no pressure to focus on the MSQ to the detriment of other things. That freedom really opens up the game to me. -
02-24-2022, 07:35 AMArcaviusGreyasheFirst, if we really did see "the end of the story arc that started in ARR", everything we've seen until now will pretty much not be useful to know for the upcoming story quests, so it IS optional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
And second... I don't see how it devaluates anything. When you read a book by an author, you don't need to read everything he's written up until now. I know, I know "but in that case, it would be like not reading the first tome of a saga and beginning at the second". Except it doesn't, or isn't supposed to, since then again, we're supposed to live a brand new story. Take Feist, a fantasy author, as an example, it may be more understandable that way.
He wrote The Riftwar Cycle. All the riftwar cycle take place in the same universe, but it is several different duologies/trilogies/quadrilogies. Some characters do appear in multiple ones, there is one character that does appear in all of them and could be considered the riftwar cycle main character, but you don't have to read the riftwar legacy to understand the serpentwar saga.
If SE's authors, devs and so on think it will devaluate what they created, that's on them and we should respect their intentions as authors. But it is not our place to determine whether a newbie should play ARR > EW before 7.0.