Interpretation of an Endwalker Plot Point (Spoilers for the Entire MSQ)

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Chai Nuzz ain't no dummy, but he ain't no Cid Garlond either! :P

I like him and think he's hilarious.

The Dwarves are pretty dang smart though. Especially the twins who dealt with the Nier Automata extradimensional alien tech.

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<3 vyrerus no one can be Cid unless it's Cid even Nero Can't be Cid and he laments it.

Lol I noticed neither of us deigned to touch upon Mowen and Rowena... guess that's better left alone since I'd rather compare them to voidsents

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Originally Posted by Rannie

<3 vyrerus no one can be Cid unless it's Cid even Nero Can't be Cid and he laments it.

Lol I noticed neither of us deigned to touch upon Mowen and Rowena... guess that's better left alone since I'd rather compare them to voidsents

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Honestly when I think about Rowena, the first thing that comes to mind is Gerolt covering up his traumatic memory of them arguing and being broken up with her being in a wedding dress playing splish splash with him in the water. T_T He just wants to drink booze and making inspirational mastercraft weapons, and she thinks he's squandering his potential by not being a kingpin on the Syndicate.

Mowen... I saw that she was Rowena lookalike and said, {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Honestly when I think about Rowena, the first thing that comes to mind is Gerolt covering up his traumatic memory of them arguing and being broken up with her being in a wedding dress playing splish splash with him in the water. T_T He just wants to drink booze and making inspirational mastercraft weapons, and she thinks he's squandering his potential by not being a kingpin on the Syndicate.

Mowen... I saw that she was Rowena lookalike and said, {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}

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They're cut throat I tell you and that was a great scene in bozja. Also love the response we can give to them at the Doman restoration about Rowena having them deal with voidsent then her....

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Intelligence is always shown in the game especially by going by the literal definition of it

in·tel·li·gence

/inˈteləjəns/

noun

1.

the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

The normal people on the first demonstrated that just by figuring out that PC was the Warrior of Darkness...

Granted that was a simple deduction that they were able to process but then there's also people are able to figure things out like the cat guy on the first (the daedulus heir not kai shirr god not kai shirr looks good in the 2b outfit though..).. its why I wonder because say comparing him to Cid they both seem and could be considered to be on the same common ground

In a way it makes me sometimes wonder when he says that due to the fact that Emet already sees the sundered as lesser being than him. (And yes in some ways they are due to being sundered will not and am not arguing that also theodric not arguing with you just a nice discussion ^_^) So in a way it could be his prejudice speaking when he says that.

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I think it does come down to what Theodric said, i.e. it's quite a difficult trait to write in such a way as to show differences, especially if these are not thought out in advance (which I think is the real problem here) and only discussed as part of a re-purposed plot element. Because it is a trait with so many broad manifestations, it's not like the Echo traits, lifespan, creation magick aptitude or soul density, where the writers can easily show differences in these things. Personally I would agree that with this trait, as a result of the issues mentioned, it's less obviously reduced than some of the others where we have very explicit evidence of it, and so I usually would not bother mentioning it - especially since those others are rather big ones anyway.

Initially I didn't pay much attention to the direction this discussion went in since it didn't really have much to do with how I began it, but recently I've become more interested and gave it some more thought. The conclusion I've come to is that there are too many factors to consider when it comes to defining the intellect of the people of the Source and the people of the shards, and as a result it can't definitively be said that aetheric density plays a direct role in intelligence. Someone mentioned earlier that the Ronkan Empire on the First never reached the same level of technological advancement as the Allagan Empire on the Source, but this could potentially be explained by differences in historical circumstance rather than inherent ability. Just because one society is less technologically advanced than another doesn't necessarily mean its people are inherently less intelligent. I think this also applies to the Gerolt and Grenoldt comparison drawn earlier in that they've lived different lives from each other, so of course they won't have the exact same innovative prowess. They may have been one being prior to the sundering, but they're very much different people in the present. I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that I agree with Rannie and Lauront.

I didn't bring this up earlier but I think it's also worth mentioning that the people of the First seem to be mostly equal in strength to the people of the Source. Back in the Heavensward postgame the Warriors of Darkness were clearly able to keep up with the Scions, though to be fair, they all had the Echo. Ran'jit poses a serious threat to the party during Shadowbringers and at one point nearly kills Thancred. The shades of heroes from other shards that Elidibus summons are shown to be dangerous as well despite being in an incomplete state. As far as we can tell, the people of the First also seem to possess the same lifespans of the people of the Source. They're also physically the same size as the people of the Source, unlike the Ancients who were giant compared to the sundered. All of this makes me wonder if a person's characteristics aren't directly proportional to their aetheric density but rather change after meeting a certain threshold. Regardless, I think one of the points of the past couple expansions was to show that the sundered are capable of achieving just as much as or even more than the unsundered despite being weaker.

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Originally Posted by MediocreIndigo

Edit: I forgot to mention this earlier but when you use up the last of the creation magic Hydaelyn infused within Azem's crystal you can see aether leaking out and you hear her voice say "May you ever walk in the Light." I think this could be another sign that expended aether is changed rather than destroyed. It might also signify that the aether in the crystal contained a sliver of her individuality, though this is still ultimately speculation.

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I was so mad when that happened. Here I am thinking I'm finally done dealing with her and then I heard her whisper that and I was like:

https://c.tenor.com/oco5ZGbXc8IAAAAC/the-office-no.gif

No but seriously, Yoshi P said she's gone for good. Completely gone. Good riddance, I say.

I don't think she is gone.

Byregot "And in Hydaelyn's absence, we are the star's rightful rulers. It's will."

I am sure Yoshi will get his favorite Mommy back in Game.

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

I don't think she is gone.

Byregot "And in Hydaelyn's absence, we are the star's rightful rulers. It's will."

I am sure Yoshi will get his favorite Mommy back in Game.

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She's gone, you taking absence to assume that she will return. when the devs have already said shes gone gone.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

She's gone, you taking absence to assume that she will return. when the devs have already said shes gone gone.

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Even in-universe, both the Watcher and the Twelve seem pretty sure she's gone and are acting accordingly. And I'm struggling to think of anyone in the game world that's more knowledgeable about this specific fact than them.