Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

That sounded so out of touch with what the playerbase wants and how the game is played that for a second I thought I was listening to a WoW streaming, Yoshi P once said that he wonders if the devs of that game even played the game now I wonder if he does the same in ffxiv because that takes screams little to zero experience

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Yoshi-P's statement is about as tone deaf as the Lead Designer of WoW flat out saying they didn't want players playing a certain DPS spec. (Language warning)

Background: Instead of properly balancing a certain DPS spec, the WoW devs nuked it to the ground so people would play other things.

Sound familiar?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

And I have on both Pandaemonimum and other content synced and its still bonkers and engaging for me. Im just not the "best" healer around in this game. I WISH I could be confident enough in the role to complain about how "stupidly easy and braindead it is" to dps, but like I said, my opinion is extremely based. But I also feel the OP and others's opinions on the issue is also very much based too. I dont think healing is boring at all, as long as everyone is still alive I'm happy.

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Sounds like your nervousness stems from the possibility of someone getting mad if they died, and so spend way too much time gcd over-healing in the process.

Increasing healer's dps rotation won't stop you from keeping players alive. It'll only serve to give healers who are more comfortable with the job something to do.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Sounds like your nervousness stems from the possibility of someone getting mad if they died, and so spend way too much time gcd over-healing in the process.

Increasing healer's dps rotation won't stop you from keeping players alive. It'll only serve to give healers who are more comfortable with the job something to do.

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perhaps so but Ive been making sure I still dps when allowed, I dont just over-heal my group (I used to). Its just again I feel like Im not the minority here in terms of the everyday casual who still have healer jitters in MMOs were a big noticable aspect of the party dynamic is if everyone is either alive or dead, which is what I believe the devs have been focusing on for it to be simple compared to other MMOs. I know I would've never touched healer nor tank in this game if it werent for how easy the jobs were, so I GUESS this design direction worked on me.

It's funny, because you could have worded it "If you want to have fun playing healer, then go play another game" and it would have hit exactly the same way it does now. I guess everyone should stop queuing up on healer and hold up all the dungeons, trials, dailies, etc... because we should all be doing ultimates for the true healer experience. Nothing else matters, per Yoshi P himself.

That statement should be "Ultimates and Savage" at minimun, ppl should feel rewarded when investing and mastering on they fav jobs/roles on combat endgame not suffering how much they are become a chore the more you learn how to play it bcs the only content that actually takes your job capabilitys in real consideration is ultimate and nothing more, and i even have doubts of that on certain ultimates.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

is either alive or dead, which is what I believe the devs have been focusing on for it to be simple compared to other MMOs.

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Problems come when to guarantee that a healer is not needed at all, Tanks have enough self sustain to clear savage without healers, solo normal raids and the best performing party composition for dungeons is Tank+3 DPS, if they truly wanted to make people being alive or dead a big factor then the current content design and is an absolute failure.

Other problem arised when we consider how the role growths, a tank at lv10 and at lv90 barely have something in common in how they play, a dps at lv10 and at lv90 are completely different experiences meanwhile healers at lv10 already play 70-80% the same as they do at lv90, in an rpg this is simply bad design or even toxic simplification, but lets take this toxic simplification and say there are some people who are still learning and may find it helpful, why then ALL the healers have to be played the same? Tanks are played differently (for the most part), dps are completely different from one to another but a Whm could play Sge and then Sch and find that they play basically the same, in a game that celebrates having multiple classes that can be played with the same character this should be unnaceptable.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This is effectively what the lead designer of this game told Healers in the latest live letter.

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He knows that players will most likely not quit the game because of that. I feel like a large part of the dev's philosophy regarding issues in this game is if it doesn't cause subscriber numbers to significantly drop, then there's no need to address it.

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Tanks are played differently (for the most part), dps are completely different from one to another but a Whm could play Sge and then Sch and find that they play basically the same, in a game that celebrates having multiple classes that can be played with the same character this should be unnaceptable.

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Ok thats gonna be a hard disagree on my end. White Mage, Sage and Scholar DO NOT play like each other. White Mage you have your bursty heals, the best AoE in the game for mobs but require more careful MP management. Sage is an odd mix of heals, regens and shields alongside having a button to change those properties on your basic healing and damage spells with the added bonus on healing via damaging. And Scholar is all about proper fairy usage with not having strong heals but making up for it with stronger shields. I seriously dont see how those 3 classes play the exact same way, sure they have similar usage to their ogcds with their gauges (somewhat) but like I mentioned before, the whole design aspect of healing is to heal not to deal damage.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I think we've grown too complacent with the idea that "healers are a dps" job when its in their job description to heal not to deal damage.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

perhaps so but Ive been making sure I still dps when allowed, I dont just over-heal my group (I used to). Its just again I feel like Im not the minority here in terms of the everyday casual who still have healer jitters in MMOs were a big noticable aspect of the party dynamic is if everyone is either alive or dead, which is what I believe the devs have been focusing on for it to be simple compared to other MMOs. I know I would've never touched healer nor tank in this game if it werent for how easy the jobs were, so I GUESS this design direction worked on me.

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Learned how to not overheal? Congratulations! That's great of you to improve! Now then...

How would you feel the first time you find out that as a HEALER whose job is supposed to heal actually spend more than half of the time in their general contents casting damaging spells instead of healing? I am not even exaggerating there. "Half of the time" is very lenient because at that point said healers must've been overhealing by large amount or largely doing nothing aside twitching their thumbs until damage happens to heal. Personally? I immediately embrace the "Green DPS meme" identity, because that's what the numbers really tells us. They never lie.

We can heal. We should heal, but the damage intake is not up there. What could we possibly be doing when we've healed all that's needed to be healed? This has been debated for so many, many, many, MANY times in the past. Raise the damage intake and we'll only upset players from both spectrums. Inexperienced will get discouraged because they just can't clear content when all they're capable of are casting Medica II and/or fishing for Freecure procs. Vets will get frustrated because the burden will too often fall to their hands to 'carry' the inexperienced. I'm sure this is not a situation everybody wish to experience.

In turn, they asks for more something to do during downtime. Asking for more buttons to press doesn't always mean specifically an actual dps rotation, that's just one of the possible options. It can be anything. More debuffs/buffs with varied timers to manage, DoTs. Healers who just want to heal will never touch non-healing buttons. There are already players who don't even touch their Dia/Biolysis/Combust/E.Diagnosis when it's actually a simple, convenient "press this button once every 30s and forget", why do you think they'll even stress about touching more buttons? If any, expectation for healers to dps would be lowered because it'll become commonly known that dpsing requires more skill than the current 1 button spam ad nauseam.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

If you want more engaging content as a healer then queue things solo and get matched with random ppl. There's lots of DPS out there that stand in mechanics they shouldn't be, and tanks that think they can mass pull with gear they should have replaced long ago while not using any of their cooldowns... >.>

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I do, regularly. Guess what? I still spend 80-90% of my time spamming one button. Hell, in E12N last expansion, I literally did not press a single heal, period. Assize covered everything even with randoms getting clipped. That's how little damage actually happens. Two healers are comically and hilariously overpowered in 90% of the content. That aforementioned 513 Dosis II I did? Random Alliance Roulette. A friend and I had a Tower run where we had a combined 20+ Raises because so many people were eating stuff. We still spammed Glare and Malefic more than any other button by several times.

There is no scenario where you aren't spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis 100+ times. Which is incredibly boring.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

you should take it as a compliment, but you prefer to see maliciousness.

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In what way is this complimentary? Since you list Bard in your profile. Would you find it "complimentary" if your entire job was spamming Burst Shot and reapplying Iron Jaws every 30 seconds? Maybe you get the occasional Refulgent in the same way Healers have to actually heal a raid wide but otherwise you get nothing else. No Songs, no procs, no buffs. Nothing. You spam Burst Shot and that's your "gameplay." If DPS were designed this way, people would be screaming with pitch forks raised. Hell, look at the divisive reaction towards Summoner. And it still has more engaging gameplay than Healers despite the whole rotation being able to be macro'd into a single button.