To be frank, I think they could've just stole PvP iteration of SCH then start from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by elioaiko
Remove the goddamned Aetherflow gauge. Turn all the current aetherflow-based heals into oGCD with charges. Let Dissipation consume our overabundant Fae Gauge for an effect that does not remove our fairy; the current PvP iteration of Dissipation buffs the SCH's damage AND recharges their aetherflow-based heals. Now THAT sounds and works more like an 'emergency button' vs current iteration of PvE Dissipation, why can't we have that?
Remove Energy Drain or turn it into an integral part of Fae Gauge generation in addition to other way of generation (I.e. make our Fae Embrace generate 2p of Fae Gauge per cast). Personally I prefer the idea of 'Energy Draining' for the fae gauge vs unleashing 'Energy Drain' with the help of aetherflow stock for peanut damage and hp absorption.
Fae Gauge has so many potential that can be linked to fae-related abilities (I mean, we're supposed to work with our fairy, right???), but what we get now is only a green, spiteful p*ss that we can use from the Earth reaching whoever's standing in the surface of Moon. How very inspiring.
I hold so close the current iteration of Energy Drain is simply because it's all the leftover cookies crumb we have. And I don't trust them enough to take it away and compensate us with something interesting. (looking at you early ShB Energy Drain removal)
/rantend
-
03-19-2022, 04:43 PMRein_eon_Osborne
-
03-19-2022, 06:49 PMelioaikoHonestly I've lost hope of them bringing anything back. They've made it very clear that once they make changes (or outright remove something), they're gone for good. We "may" get a reskinned version but completely altered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
I like your idea though, the Fae Gauge is so useless because it only effects one thing. And then the oGCDs might as well be charges unattached to Aetherflow at this point.
I was thinking they could change Energy Drain into a 60s CD on the GCD for an MP refresh while also proc'ing a new skill changing Ruin 2 into Meltdown (a new movement AoE DPS skill) that's also on the GCD. -
03-20-2022, 02:00 AMGrimoire-MThis is why I’m okay putting actual losses on other healers. To me it should be unified, but the game’s more fun with different priorities between overlapping elements in each healer’s kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
-
03-23-2022, 03:39 AMMiaShino
Will take what my uncle hath said and others within the thread.
Jobs should not be different for sake of being different. They should either all have strengths and weaknesses or none have weaknesses.
Square appears to agree with this concept in some limited degree because look at Warrior. Pre Endwalker friends wondered "Why does warrior spend for engage while other tanks can do this for free." then boom in Endwalker warrior engage is now on charge system and free. Complexity through design not kneecapping is difficult concept for game developers. Can understand this and that is why at times tis good to consult outside opinion.
Besides fricken recitation and fay skills (fay blessing is free so can fay tether allllll day long) cover any need for aetherflow. Also expedience for mit > soil because one is free while other costs 100 potency. Regen portion of soil likely not needed when there is whispering dawn or passive regen after crit indom so just expedience for mitigation every time. If co-healer is Astro with two functioning brain cells for the rubbing together they have silly skills like Macrocosmos and plenty of aoe regen through opposition and collective unconscious, horoscope is there too if needed.
Phat deploy during downtime can assist in absorbing most things because nearly every time the boss poofs it does one raid wide upon returning. If boss opens with raid wide can pre-pull shield for even more optimal energy draining away.
If using Savage pugging as example and party is playing exceptionally poorly you have likely already wiped and simply do not know it yet. Most seem to wall themselves for reset anyway making the decision for do I aetherflow heal or ED even less complex... You kinda know when recovery is not possible and it only takes one or two pulls to get feel for co-healer play style and how accident prone rest of party is too. No healer should lose damage for using their kit when other healers do not suffer from this it makith no sense. Only justification one could make for this is if Scholar/White mage were generating significantly higher numbers then Sage/Astro which they are not. Not for the rDPS at the least. -
03-27-2022, 03:50 AMLeonerdo
Why does everyone feel like they deserve free healing just because SGE has it? Just go play SGE. The "heal tax" isn't unusual or untenable. We've dealt with it for years, and it will continue to exist forever in the form of GCD heals.
SCH is the strongest healer right now.* And y'all still want more. I understand the complaints about lilies, but only because WHM is doing the least damage even without paying the extra heal tax.
Quit asking for SQEX to delete gameplay nuance, just so... idk... what would you even get out of removing Energy Drain? So you can parse 2% higher without a static?
* https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/44#class=Healers
* https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/44/#boss=82 -
03-27-2022, 05:32 AMRenathras
I've felt for years SCH should have a AF spender that generates a 100% barrier (no heal) like how Divine Benison works. The reason SCH needs Energy Drain is (a) something to spend AF on if AF is coming off CD and you still have a stack or two remaining, (b) legacy since it's just been part of the Job for a decade at this point (this didn't stop SMN from getting a complete rework and throwing out a lot of old abilities, though...), and (c) so high end raiders can swing around big D parses.
(b) isn't really a good excuse at this point because of how much has changed and that they already removed Energy Drain once, in ShB.
(c) isn't a good reason for anything. "fite me", but it's not.
(a) is the only logical gameplay reason for it, especially with it being a pathetic 100 potency damage that doesn't even regenerate MP anymore (what it used to be useful for). But, if SCH had a Divine Benison ability as a AF spender, it would fix this problem, as they could simply shield the tank (and OT or other party member) and pre-shielding tends to be consumed eventually.
It also would play into the Job's identity as the OG barrier healer. It boggles my mind to this day how EVERY OTHER HEALER as an instant cast or oGCD shield EXCEPT FOR SCHOLAR. WHM has DB, AST has Celestial Intersection (and Neutral Sect Aspected Benefic, but I consider that more like Summon Seraph + Consolation), and SCH's Eukrasia are instant casts on a 1 sec lead (casting Eukrasia first). SCH is the only Job that has to use Swiftcast if it wants to throw out an instant shield on a target...and it's supposed to be the BARRIER HEALER of the game (even moreso than Sage)
This would also get away from the "heal or damage" nonsense with Aetherflow, as your spender would be mitigation (a barrier) and so wouldn't be competing with your DPS numbers. -
03-27-2022, 06:14 AMMiaShinoBecause it feels bad and I wish to play Scholar? The heck is with the "just go play X". What if I play all the healers, then what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonerdo
Would avoid posting links to the forbidden website too if were you.
If in current savage you avoid Aetherflow heals entirely. If in low levels you cannot. Meanwhile Sage laughs in instant cast Adlo then presses Phlegma for booku damage while double weaving free heals and has movement from this.
Engage tied to job gauge feels dumb when present.
Lilies being gcd deeps negative feels dumb when no other healer has this issue.
Some things just feel bad or outdated.
"We do not feel there are any changes we need to make for Scholar."Quote:
Originally Posted by Renathras
-
03-27-2022, 03:28 PMSilver-StriderI personally view Energy Drain more as a crutch to disguise how poorly the job is designed. The few times that SE removed ED in the past showcased how heavily SCH's toolkit suffers from its removal. Dissipation becomes functionally worthless since you rarely need the extra Aetherflow for healing as is and the heal boost it provides is equally unnecessary outside the odd Critlo/Deployment. The fairy gauge also fills much slower without it since, unless we're just burning Aetherflow overhealing, we're not using Aetherflow skills enough to build it faster. ED is literally the only thing that holds SCH's jank toolkit together so to remove it, you'd have to redesign a few other things on SCH just for it to work properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonerdo
-
03-27-2022, 07:35 PMYhisa
Actually its the community thats the problem
Over the years in ffxiv players are WAY to focus around "meta" "bis" and "parsing" which its slowly turning into warcraft these days
I been around for 8 years in this game and legit quited all forms of raiding in 4.2 due to the community outlook and iv been around since arr early access
The problem is everyone is treating everything at top tier performance levels when looking at "potencies" when reality is there is alot more going on
I play all healers and i still main white mage , now my MP problems only start to happen when people start to make mistakes, and this is when i start to notice that my kit is soo precious, yeah i have lilies which i can throw around and lose out on a single glare cast, but as a healer your mindset should be more around "saving" people over "dps more" and thus is the problem
Also people forget there is TWO healers in a raid so when looking at healers as a whole you NEED to combine the TWO healers in that raid
Example
Sch + white mage
Asylum + sacred soil + tetra + lilies + whispering dawn+ lustrate + benediction + aqua veil + seraph + indom + divine benesion+ excog + temperance + expediant + lily bell
Basically whilst there is TWO healers the WHOLE role becomes ONE your co-healer cooldown also becomes your cooldowns
So we will use the whm/sch combo, you have to combine them into 1 singular person
Example
With white mage as the co healer to scholar, those ED actually overtime make up for "lost" of glare cast also its "free" damage since its an ability and not a spell if there is no immediate healing required or a cooldown required because your CO-HEALER is covering the mechanic
As a healer main my job is to understand what my co healer cooldowns are, and to understand that the healer role in this game is a unity between TWO players to get the job role done -
03-27-2022, 09:11 PMUkcsAliasI have seen that problem way too often in other games as well. People only focus about values, not about the player skill itself. Players can make underpowered things look overpowered. And usualy when those people are streamers, players will see this as 'default'. They will do extremely bad things because they think its better. And instead they weaken themselve significantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
I already notice that when as healer im too busy trying to max out my dps, that im often enough taking too much risks on healing. Enemies sometimes burst out very much damage in a short moment (forcing you to resolve to the GCD healing), but at that point you are often already too late. Yet if i wasnt caring as much, the tank would have survived easily. The time lost from wipes due to this, compared to the time saved if i would have DPS'd more, already told me wiping is far worse than simply being lower in damage.
But the problem here is mainly that they gave healers too much damage in the first place. Forcing the balance in a way that healers must be considered as part of the DPS. And to a certain degree, this is somewhat needed because if you are healing well, you need to get some reward out of that. While nerfing dps might be a good way to get the focus back to healing, its not rewarding if you can still dps most of the time. And on that i think that GCD healing should in some way still boost the DPS (in oder to make it less of a punishment when using it).
But this is a design problem in general, DPS is considered the highest priority for a team. Especialy since in many events time is an important factor. Even if you have plenty of time, everytime the boss can do its mechanic, its a big time waste to the team, and a risk. Everything gets measured by DPS, even in such state that some classes are called less effective (even if they have other ways to compensate). And its something you cant realy avoid, damage is after all the reason bosses die.
But this is exactly as you said, the community. As someone said "Players are excellent in optimizing the fun out of a game". And this is again one of those moments where this happens.