Fix how barriers work please

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Is there any reason you can’t just stack them like how when’s can stack regen/medica 2s? Even if there needs to be a maximum possible shield for balance, surely that could be what 2 boosted adlos give?

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Unlike a regen which only restores lost health, a shield effectively increases max HP. Having that much shielding all the time would completely trivialize many mechanics.

1) You have 100 HP and two regens running. Mob hits you for 100 damage. You die and regen does nothing to save you.

2) You have 100 HP and a 20% shield. Mob hits you have 100 damage. You live with 20 HP.

3) You have 100 HP and two 20% shields. Mobs hits you for 100 damage. You live with 40 HP.

In scenarios 1 and 2 you're either dead or close to it. In scenario 3 you're still alive with almost half your HP. That's why SCH and SGE (and formerly AST) shields don't stack.

Make DT deploy a catalyse if possible, galvanize if not ?
That's still kinda shields stacking but on a 90s recast ; so not too OP ?

I’d love to see them prioritizing fatter, larger shield over the smaller shield. Although I’m curious how that will affect Addersting shenanigan.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

SCH/SGE

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While you’re correct about the niche composition effectiveness, sometimes… pugs just aren’t that good to adjust themselves. After all, pugs will be pugs.

I remember there was one time I & my friend joined a PF for Hydaelyn EX, myself rolling as a SCH. Later on when the party fills up my co-healer was a SGE. Immediately I volunteer’d myself to be the priority GCD shielder when needed.

Their answer? ”But I needed my shield to heal.”

I nope’d out in instant. That’s a major dealbreaker. Not because I don’t get to shield. It’s because that answer indicates they have inadequate understanding how strong their overall toolkits are.

Don’t get me wrong. I’ve had few other instances I got to heal with fellow barrier healers and it was a blast. But more than not, it just won’t be as colorful as the paper shown, so I understand people desire to keep it Regen/Barrier composition in pugs setting.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Their answer? ”But I needed my shield to heal.”

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I'm actually wondering if the very first SGE class quest in the Arboretum is to blame for this mentality. It's quite heavy on pushing the shield mechanic over everything else.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

I'm actually wondering if the very first SGE class quest in the Arboretum is to blame for this mentality. It's quite heavy on pushing the shield mechanic over everything else.

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Because in low level content that's all you have, so as the introductory quest it makes sense to focus on the basics.

But Sage of all healers really drives home the "always be dpsing" paradigm simply through its kardia mechanic. Half an hour with Sage will teach you that you need to reduce incoming damage, not just shield it.

As for a solution to stacking shields, have them all actually stack, but with a maximum threshold above which additional shielding doesn't register. Perhaps 100% of the targets HP so the maximum you can reach is 200%.
E.g. SCH applies a critlo for about 80% HP, SGE applies a crit E.Diag for 50%, but caps out at 20% because it's reached the 100% maximum.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Unlike a regen which only restores lost health, a shield effectively increases max HP. Having that much shielding all the time would completely trivialize many mechanics.

1) You have 100 HP and two regens running. Mob hits you for 100 damage. You die and regen does nothing to save you.

2) You have 100 HP and a 20% shield. Mob hits you have 100 damage. You live with 20 HP.

3) You have 100 HP and two 20% shields. Mobs hits you for 100 damage. You live with 40 HP.

In scenarios 1 and 2 you're either dead or close to it. In scenario 3 you're still alive with almost half your HP. That's why SCH and SGE (and formerly AST) shields don't stack.

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I mean, only if they just slapped it together without thinking it out. Obviously it'd need balancing.

Something like a cap at 25%. (so the 20% original boosted shield, + any additional shield is just gravy)

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I nope’d out in instant. That’s a major dealbreaker. Not because I don’t get to shield. It’s because that answer indicates they have inadequate understanding how strong their overall toolkits are.

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Sages in DF or PF that aren't E-Prog addicts are so rare they make the EX mount look like a guaranteed drop by comparison.

At the very least, couldn't they just turn the shield into healing instead of overwriting? (Maybe overwrite if the shield is stronger and turn to heal if it is weaker?)- At least that way you aren't "losing" anything from shield healers x 2

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Because in low level content that's all you have, so as the introductory quest it makes sense to focus on the basics.

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You don't even have Euk until 30 (7 dungeons) and are left with Kardia and spamming plain old diag. 30-45 is the range you have e.diag plus the hard cast heals - so Qarn, Cutter, Vigil and Darkhold - with 45 giving you druchole - for just Aurum - before getting a more decent kit at 50 for Prae onwards. I still feel too much attention is paid to e.diag in the first quest (specifically swirling red arrows on you mid fight with the three of them to warn you are about to be "tank"busted so shield yourself up)

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As for a solution to stacking shields, have them all actually stack, but with a maximum threshold above which additional shielding doesn't register. Perhaps 100% of the targets HP so the maximum you can reach is 200%.
E.g. SCH applies a critlo for about 80% HP, SGE applies a crit E.Diag for 50%, but caps out at 20% because it's reached the 100% maximum.

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I still think gathering adderstings midfight is wrong in this ex+ 2 healer situation, but if that were done the SGE shield would have to be at the bottom of the stack so it pops first.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

At the very least, couldn't they just turn the shield into healing instead of overwriting? (Maybe overwrite if the shield is stronger and turn to heal if it is weaker?)- At least that way you aren't "losing" anything from shield healers x 2

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It's called using Emergency Tactics which removes the shield before Succor cast for a pure heal AoE. Used to have a much longer cooldown but when they knocked it down to 15s, they addressed being with a second barrier healer and more oh crap moments w/o Aetherflow.
Sage has the opposite called Pepsi, removes the shield after cast.

ARR was the most rough for SCH/SCH before ET ever existed, today it's a night and day difference.

People tend to forget E-Prog and Succor are also pure heals, and there is also the aspect of many not-so-good barrier heals may put them up too early so having the newer overwrite will reset the clock.