Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

I mean that is the nature of the beast. Any big changes to a class the people who like it is not going to. That is just how it works.

Summoner was boring before. Long tedious rotation. Dots and all that. The community as a whole did not really like the class. They now changed it, and many people are hyped..but the ones who enjoyed that boring style as it was before are sad they have to give up what they enjoy. It can't be helped. Someone always got to get run over for the rest of us to have fun. That is the nature of mmorpg.


You can't make everyone happy, but now summoner looks like a summoner. So i'm excited for it.

Visually it's awesome, mechanically I'd have to wait and see. I don't think there is anything wrong with worrying though. Personally that DoTs are gone is fine, but I also didn't really care to see them gone either, it was mostly a visual concept that I believe they could have achieved with or without them.

Hopefully however this shift is because they believe they've not only done something visually appetizing but also mechanically. In which case double hurray. I do hope carbuncle does something, or.. something.. around those egi lines.. not because I like egi but because watching a little thing stand around and do absolutely nothing just seems a bit weird lol. Maybe they brought back some of the autonomy they had originally (they sort of auto cast stuff unless you told them not to). So for rewording, not a desire to see Egi (I'm fine either way, though I like demi, and I love the visual vibe of 6.0 SMN so far a lot more than all things current), just that a thing standing around apparently doing nothing is a little odd (and maybe I was blind but carby looked like they were twiddling their toes).

On visuals alone I'm super excited and I think FINALLY REALL SUMMONS, TAKE THAT WoW WARLOCK! lol. But mechanically I'd like to try it before commenting. I am capable of split opinion, to much of the potential confusion of others lol..., like I thought the very original SMN (ARR) was one of the most fun to play but just had a really reaaaallly bad "FF Summoner" presence. (Little is just pure one interpretation).


Here's to hopefully summoner both being an amazing visual treat and mechanically a blast to also play!!

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I mean that is the nature of the beast. Any big changes to a class the people who like it is not going to. That is just how it works.

Summoner was boring before. Long tedious rotation. Dots and all that. The community as a whole did not really like the class. They now changed it, and many people are hyped..but the ones who enjoyed that boring style as it was before are sad they have to give up what they enjoy. It can't be helped. Someone always got to get run over for the rest of us to have fun. That is the nature of mmorpg.


You can't make everyone happy, but now summoner looks like a summoner. So i'm excited for it.

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Can't wait for the equally long rotation with a 111111 or a 121212 spam which definitely won't be boring.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

But is this a good thing though? Back in 2.0 you had jobs that worked for all group, from easy and straight forward to complex and difficult. The problems happen when people say "I want to play XYZ job but don't like the design. SE need to change it so it caters to me." Rather than playing the jobs they like, the want to change the jobs they desire.

In FFXI I wanted to play SMN so badly but when I finally unlocked it... I was completely disappointed in it's design. I tossed my two cents in on the forums; started play BLM then COR instead and was happier for it.
In FFXIV I picked up SMN in beta in feel in love with it playstyle. I played it for 8 years straight and now I'm SoL, go find a new job.

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right but they didn't change SMN to make it easy
they changed it to actually be a Summoner since ARR the major complaint of this job has been its aesthetic nothing has been about the jobs complexity(wonder why)
only thing thats truly gone is Dot management and ruin 2
the mobility,Devotion ,all Aetherflow skills and even Titan egi fatty sheild is still there,they even hinted at phsyick scaling with Int.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I mean that is the nature of the beast. Any big changes to a class the people who like it is not going to. That is just how it works.

Summoner was boring before. Long tedious rotation. Dots and all that. The community as a whole did not really like the class. They now changed it, and many people are hyped..but the ones who enjoyed that boring style as it was before are sad they have to give up what they enjoy. It can't be helped. Someone always got to get run over for the rest of us to have fun. That is the nature of mmorpg.


You can't make everyone happy, but now summoner looks like a summoner. So i'm excited for it.

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Is that why SMN was one of the most played jobs according to FFLogs? Because people didn't like it?

You really shouldn't say things about the community as a whole unless you actually have statistics.

But anyways, to the people who say "SMN is now a SMN." Is it really?
Last time I checked in FF games, most SMNs were mages that can summon. The summoner identity that you guys are claiming is nothing more than nostalgia fueled dribble.

Rydia black mage that can summon
Garnet and garnet white mages that summon
Yuna? You guess it white mage

FF7? Materia
FF8? Everyone can
6? Oh look materia again

3, 5, 11, and the tactics games are literally the only games with actual smn jobs. And guess? They are either bad or use other magic as a sub job because you literally couldn't summon all the time because it was too costly.

Let's be completely honest. You guys limit what SMN could be because you guys whined and complain that it should perfectly fit into an ideal and anything outside of it was bad.
Does SMN have it issues? Certainly but it was a new idea on SMN that worked and was interesting. Now we get a job that loses all it's flavor so congrats FFXIV community. your complaining probably made another job extremely boring

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

But anyways, to the people who say "SMN is now a SMN." Is it really?
Last time I checked in FF games, most SMNs were mages that can summon. The summoner identity that you guys are claiming is nothing more than nostalgia fueled dribble.

3, 5, 11, and the tactics games are literally the only games with actual smn jobs. And guess? They are either bad or use other magic as a sub job because you literally couldn't summon all the time because it was too costly.

Let's be completely honest. You guys limit what SMN could be because you guys whined and complain that it should perfectly fit into an ideal and anything outside of it was bad.
Does SMN have it issues? Certainly but it was a new idea on SMN that worked and was interesting. Now we get a job that loses all it's flavor so congrats FFXIV community. your complaining probably made another job extremely boring

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I was under the impression that most of the jobs in FFXI and FFXIV are based on the job system that was present in FFI, FFIII, FFV, FFT, and FFT/A. The characters from the other games you mention don't have job systems. It makes more sense for FFXI and FFXIV to take inspiration from the games with job systems than the ones that don't, considering they too have job systems.

I wouldn't blame the community for this either. Yoshi-P has stated several times that he does not like pet classes and he regrets the situation with Scholar and Summoner and their shared class. I see this as another step on his path to separate the class identities from each other and make SMN what it should have been from the beginning. I'm not sure how losing bio and miasma, spells never previously associated with SMN, as well as egi assault 1 and egi assault 2 is a loss. Besides, the media tour isn't even out yet and it would be best to withhold judgement until then, when we actually know how the changes will work.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Is that why SMN was one of the most played jobs according to FFLogs? Because people didn't like it?

You really shouldn't say things about the community as a whole unless you actually have statistics.

But anyways, to the people who say "SMN is now a SMN." Is it really?
Last time I checked in FF games, most SMNs were mages that can summon. The summoner identity that you guys are claiming is nothing more than nostalgia fueled dribble.

Rydia black mage that can summon
Garnet and garnet white mages that summon
Yuna? You guess it white mage

FF7? Materia
FF8? Everyone can
6? Oh look materia again

3, 5, 11, and the tactics games are literally the only games with actual smn jobs. And guess? They are either bad or use other magic as a sub job because you literally couldn't summon all the time because it was too costly.

Let's be completely honest. You guys limit what SMN could be because you guys whined and complain that it should perfectly fit into an ideal and anything outside of it was bad.
Does SMN have it issues? Certainly but it was a new idea on SMN that worked and was interesting. Now we get a job that loses all it's flavor so congrats FFXIV community. your complaining probably made another job extremely boring

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I really don't care about the class myself, but people tend to lean toward classes that log well, even if it is not fun for players. If the class was so well designed, and liked. The developers would not have changed it. The simple truth is, enough people did not like it and the developers notice it.


In progression or even because the class gives two classes in one. Many reasons why people could have played it, that does not mean it was fun.


It got changed, people are happy, if you like the class how it was before, well your feedback was not enough to keep the class as it was. Majority rule and all that.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Let's be completely honest. You guys limit what SMN could be because you guys whined and complain that it should perfectly fit into an ideal and anything outside of it was bad.
Does SMN have it issues? Certainly but it was a new idea on SMN that worked and was interesting. Now we get a job that loses all it's flavor so congrats FFXIV community. your complaining probably made another job extremely boring

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no one is asking to limit SMN to only summons they just want the job to actually represent summoner,
for endwalker they summon said primal and there spells take that aspect of the primal ,this gives 14 summoner its own take on the job while also referencing older summoners well imho
and it also kills the joke of blue mage being a better summoner.
before this hardly worked both thematically and mechanically because every expansion they have broken summoner and have to fix it in xx.1 patches every time.
Yoshi P said a few months back that they had cancelled any plans for egi glamor and stated that summoner is at a breaking point,
so change like this was expected.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Can't wait for the equally long rotation with a 111111 or a 121212 spam which definitely won't be boring.

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All the rotations are pretty boring in a vacuum, and frankly they always have been. The difficulty comes from the content those rotations have to interact with.

Even 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 can be difficult to execute well when you've got a 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 that change what 1 and 2 actually do.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I'm not sure how losing bio and miasma, spells never previously associated with SMN, as well as egi assault 1 and egi assault 2 is a loss.

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Rydia from FF4 had Bio, as well as Poison, as part of her skillset. Egi Assaults could be scene as the equivalent of say, ordering Anima to use Pain in FF10 or using your ATB to order Leviathan to use Briny Bellow in the FF7R for a more recent example.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

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Yes, because we all know the dev team only changes things that the majority want. That's why at the beginning of the Live Letter, when they told us that they know a lot of us want to go back to say, 3.0 job complexity, they said they would. That they wouldn't instead double down on the more controversial 5.0 changes. Oh wait.

They just don't know what to do with SMN, just like SCH. Which I already realized back at the beginning of StB when they decided that we didn't need Sustain anymore. Or when SCH lost Energy Drain. Or why our Pet AI keeps getting worse.

Of course a lot of people are happy. Most of them are loving the animations. Which while nice, doesn't really matter to me, as I have them turned of most of the time to help things run better, and the the novelty of them will eventually wear off.

Fun is subjective. For me, and presumably some that main the class as well, the fun in SMN comes from everything I'm managing. Which all seems to be lacking based on the Demo. Did you see the hotbar during it? There was pretty much nothing there, and you have to keep in mind that was the at level 90. They mentioned that only 1 abilty/spell wasn't there, so that is pretty much it. How heck does this class work from 1-80, where a majority of the content for this game is going to be, especially at launch when we're going to have only a couple of things at 90? Why do we have so many insta cast spells when there doesn't appear to be much to weave, with Energy Drain now being on a 60 second cooldown. What is there to keep track of? With them taking DoTs, it seems to be our Gem summons, but... that so basic. Why was Carbuncle just sitting there looking pretty? Why does it seem like we're only going to be spamming Ruin 3 and Outburst, getting new coats of paint on them during trances? Why does it seem like they only listened to people who didn't like the way the job is and had alternatives to play if that was the case, but not the people who enjoyed it for what it was and will now have nothing to fill the void old SMN will leave?

To answer your question op, yes. I am very, very concerned about SMNs new direction.