Samurai have positionals?!

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If you're taking more than one step to switch positions, you're doing positionals wrong. Executed properly, changing positionals will never take more than half a second. The GCD is between 4 and 5 times this, depending on your job and speed rating. Positonals are not a significant burden to warrant ignoring because "trying will just make you worse".

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Again, yes trying will make some worse because they do not know the fights, they tank is moving the boss a lot, someone else died meaning the mechanics shift. Unless you got your rotation and fight on lock, trying to go for positionals can very well make you lose dps. Positionals are the smallest factor of your dps and absolutely last thing you should be paying attention to.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

If people are struggling with their rotations then they shouldn't even be talking about this to begin with, and the numerical difference will be significantly magnified.
Back to the dummy and practice it.

And no one is saying to miss gcds for positionals I said the exact opposite.
Keeping your gcd rolling is like prio number one, that doesn't mean that everything else isn't important.

And yes crits make a huge difference but those crits would still be higher with positionals not to mention that you may actually be losing out on critical Shintens and that will only be magnified even further with gear.
Again it's just a bunch of excuses and strawman arguments, no one here is saying that you should be prioritizing positionals above surviving or your gcd.
What we're talking about here is people intentionally ignoring positionals don't try and shift the conversation.

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I'm seeing people saying if you don't hit positionals then you suck and are losing a ton of damage which is largely untrue. Its the exact same mindset that leads the extreme toxic behaviors we see in other games, that peopel claim FFXIV avoids. That is what I get from this, despite that a person not trying to hit positionals could out dps a person trying to hit positions just out of luck on number of crits.

The 1% or so difference in damage takes into account the crit positionals. I'm not saying positionals do not matter to damage at all. I'm saying they only matter when trying to get the highest possible parse which is only a fraction of a fraction of the player base and that the vast vast majority will never be in a position where such matters, even if they are trying to be. Much much more important things to focus on to improve your play before even thinking about positionals except for on monk because pretty much all their GCDs are psoitionals.

I really don't think its toxic to expect like moving two feet lol. Just like use true north when you don't know a mech, it's not hard. I pretty much panic use it all the time. I just tested my it my self and It was 21k dps without positionals, with positionals I do 22k. so its like 5% diffrence, which is actually kind of huge.

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Originally Posted by Acece

I really don't think its toxic to expect like moving two feet lol. Just like use true north when you don't know a mech, it's not hard. I pretty much panic use it all the time. I just tested my it my self and It was 21k dps without positionals, with positionals I do 22k. so its like 5% diffrence, which is actually kind of huge.

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I've tested it too, and it came out much smaller, much closer to 15 or so and that was hitting no positionals and hitting all positionals. If the positionals are what makes or breaks your dps checks, then there is something else wrong with you or your groups play.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Someone actually did a test, and yes in eth vast majority of content and ways of playing, they do not matter. They only matter if want to the highest parse possible. Everything, and I mean everything can be cleared easily with ample dps from the Sam without giving a lick about them.

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The vast majority of content can also be cleared by pressing 1 button the whole time. Should we encourage that too?

Cooool. So low level content when I don't have access to Kenki gauge means I can be lazy. Very naisuu.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Again, yes trying will make some worse because they do not know the fights, they tank is moving the boss a lot, someone else died meaning the mechanics shift. Unless you got your rotation and fight on lock, trying to go for positionals can very well make you lose dps. Positionals are the smallest factor of your dps and absolutely last thing you should be paying attention to.

I'm seeing people saying if you don't hit positionals then you suck and are losing a ton of damage which is largely untrue. Its the exact same mindset that leads the extreme toxic behaviors we see in other games, that peopel claim FFXIV avoids. That is what I get from this, despite that a person not trying to hit positionals could out dps a person trying to hit positions just out of luck on number of crits.

The 1% or so difference in damage takes into account the crit positionals. I'm not saying positionals do not matter to damage at all. I'm saying they only matter when trying to get the highest possible parse which is only a fraction of a fraction of the player base and that the vast vast majority will never be in a position where such matters, even if they are trying to be. Much much more important things to focus on to improve your play before even thinking about positionals except for on monk because pretty much all their GCDs are psoitionals.

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Positionals are always a gain, in case of MNK even way more than 1%. DRG won´t get his buffed attack without them, SAM either lose Kaiten or Shinten. NIN is pretty much the only class who can stay behind the boss 90% of the fight.

And yes, you do suck if you ignore to play positionals on purpose. It´s not a toxic mindset, it´s nothing but the truth. If you don´t give your best, you hinder the whole group. And as a DPS class you should use whatever is possible to increase your damage. Any little percentage can make the difference in content which aren´t braindead dungeons. I´ve seen more than once groups wiping to the enrage at 1% or even 0,1% in savage.
This casual mindset "don´t care about it" is a joke and if you´re not able to play 123, 145, 16 as SAM, you should go practice or change the class. Nothing is more braindead than those 123 combos with 60s buffs. Imo such mindsets are the reason, why the game is getting easier and classes get way too much dumbdowns.
I don´t know why ppl still play games, when all they want is free loot by spamming 1 button.

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Originally Posted by Acece

I really don't think its toxic to expect like moving two feet lol. Just like use true north when you don't know a mech, it's not hard. I pretty much panic use it all the time. I just tested my it my self and It was 21k dps without positionals, with positionals I do 22k. so its like 5% diffrence, which is actually kind of huge.

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The thing is that I am not even saying that you're LITERALLY FORCED TO DO POSITIONALS OR YOU'RE GOING TO EXPLODE INTO A RAGING INFERNO BECAUSE YOU HAVE SINNED AGAINST THE DPS GODS.

All I am saying is at least be honest and don't mislead people, you just want to play incorrectly out of laziness.
If you want to be lazy be honest about it don't try and bs people and make it sound like you're some noble soul and that people should be following in your footsteps and not make an effort too.
If you want to ignore positionals and '' just clear the content '' then play with people who are like-minded.
BUT IT'S NOT HOW THE GAME WAS DESIGNED TO BE PLAYED, and people ARE going to judge you for it and people who actually care WILL kick you.

That doesn't make them toxic, it's toxic imo to not even make a bare-minimum effort to help the team clear things faster just the same way it's toxic to just refuse to buy food buffs because you're being cheap.
Just don't complain when people sneer at you and don't want to play with you that's all and don't try to convince people that you're doing it right.

This is like people who spam auto-combos or just single punches and kicks or spam throw in fighting games and then get mad when people say that they suck.
I mean... They're not wrong, you kinda do...
Is it possible that you can beat the singleplayer or even beat some players with it?
Yeah, but you're still not playing the game as it was intended to be played and you also are objectively performing worse.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Again, yes trying will make some worse because they do not know the fights, they tank is moving the boss a lot, someone else died meaning the mechanics shift. Unless you got your rotation and fight on lock, trying to go for positionals can very well make you lose dps. Positionals are the smallest factor of your dps and absolutely last thing you should be paying attention to.



I'm seeing people saying if you don't hit positionals then you suck and are losing a ton of damage which is largely untrue. Its the exact same mindset that leads the extreme toxic behaviors we see in other games, that peopel claim FFXIV avoids. That is what I get from this, despite that a person not trying to hit positionals could out dps a person trying to hit positions just out of luck on number of crits.

The 1% or so difference in damage takes into account the crit positionals. I'm not saying positionals do not matter to damage at all. I'm saying they only matter when trying to get the highest possible parse which is only a fraction of a fraction of the player base and that the vast vast majority will never be in a position where such matters, even if they are trying to be. Much much more important things to focus on to improve your play before even thinking about positionals except for on monk because pretty much all their GCDs are psoitionals.

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I get it, I've seen it.
Got a FC mate who focuses on hitting those positionals.
So
Damn
Hard

Yet they miss mechanics and uptime, and struggle with using AoEs where appropriate.
I've tried to tell them the same thing; that they should focus on those other things first, and then work their way up to getting positionals consistently, but they're not having it

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Positionals are always a gain, in case of MNK even way more than 1%. DRG won´t get his buffed attack without them, SAM either lose Kaiten or Shinten. NIN is pretty much the only class who can stay behind the boss 90% of the fight.

And yes, you do suck if you ignore to play positionals on purpose. It´s not a toxic mindset, it´s nothing but the truth. If you don´t give your best, you hinder the whole group. And as a DPS class you should use whatever is possible to increase your damage. Any little percentage can make the difference in content which aren´t braindead dungeons. I´ve seen more than once groups wiping to the enrage at 1% or even 0,1% in savage.
This casual mindset "don´t care about it" is a joke and if you´re not able to play 123, 145, 16 as SAM, you should go practice or change the class. Nothing is more braindead than those 123 combos with 60s buffs. Imo such mindsets are the reason, why the game is getting easier and classes get way too much dumbdowns.
I don´t know why ppl still play games, when all they want is free loot by spamming 1 button.

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MNK is the only one consistently more than 1% and that is because all its GCDs have positionals. DRG, you'll hit 50% of those extra attacks just sitting only on the back or side as you only have to hit the last positional before you cycle back to the beginning of the combo to trigger the new attack. You'll hit even more just sitting on the seem between the front and back

I've seen wipes that close too. It wasn't the positionals that changed it though. It was less people dieing, one person getting a more crisp rotation, one less person out of position, one less time the tank moved the boss slightly wrong. Absolutely the last thing you should worry about is the positionals on all but MNK. Not once have I ever heard any any stream I've seen progressing content, that it is positional that make the difference.

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Originally Posted by dangadget

I get it, I've seen it.
Got a FC mate who focuses on hitting those positionals.
So
Damn
Hard

Yet they miss mechanics and uptime, and struggle with using AoEs where appropriate.
I've tried to tell them the same thing; that they should focus on those other things first, and then work their way up to getting positionals consistently, but they're not having it

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That's the way baby~
Focus on the big details, but once you're ready to address the finer details don't neglect the small stuff.
Heck, while learning and getting used to a fight its OK to stop pushing buttons all together if you need to focus on learning mechanics. Everything doesn't need to happen all at once.