It should be a long-term goal to make Blue Mage a real job

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Originally Posted by OranKells

Really tired of people assuming software developers are a fungible resource and that the same graphic designers who make characters are the ones designing battle content and ultimates

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This.

3D designers and riggers ≠ Software devs.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

then you'd unlock 'blue mage' by hitting cap and having all spells unlocked, aetherical mimicry becomes a role action and you must use it before you are able to queue. you would also be provided with a template of spells for tank/healer/dps.

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Wait, are you suggesting to also make them the only class that could queue on whatever role they wanted? And you somehow think this won't cause any imbalances or issues with all the other classes locked to a single role?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Wait, are you suggesting to also make them the only class that could queue on whatever role they wanted? And you somehow think this won't cause any imbalances or issues with all the other classes locked to a single role?

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I'm actually cool with that for most, even current, content, so long as there are additional checks to ensure the given BLU can perform as expected for that role. Their balancing tax is that they have a ton of skill-grinding to do, in place of leveling two other jobs. Or, perhaps even lock the alternate roles to having a single-role job already able to queue for it.

Of course, that'd require they actually have a comprehensive toolkit, instead of just ~16 skills that are so much more powerful that they block out the rest, a handful of obligatory utilities, and only perhaps 3 slots that'd actually change with role. In other words, the skill bank would have to not be terribly designed, nor devoted to just being a Magic Ranged DPS with additional overpowered utility.

While I personally don't mind opening blue mage to duty finder content, maybe limit 1 per dungeon and 2 per trial or something.

But I think they should double down on limited job, add beast master. allow blue mage to group with best master only. And instead of time gating them so far behind, time gate them 1 patch behind. like they can actually do shadowbringer content, just not the first few months. After the hype of 'real' job doing the content is over, the bored people can play blue mage, beast master and maybe later puppet master at a very low design cost to re-do all the content...

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Personally I was hoping that EW would add 1 more limited job like the universally requested Beastmaster and then they could make a Limited Roulette where you can only queue as BLU/Beastmaster for some fun random duty experience.

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Considering that BLU as is can be called a disservice to fans of the job (ask yourself how you'd feel if your favorite job was reduced to a side attraction that comes alive for a few weeks when it gets a patch update), I wouldn't be asking for more limited jobs.

Most arguments I've seen in favor of BLU's current design seem to boil down to "it's different for the sake of being different", which is never going to be a good reason or justification. The excuses using the spell learning mechanic aren't even good ones seeing that how BLU learns spells is not set in stone in terms of BLU's own history, as aside from "see the ability being used" you have "get hit by the ability", "consume an item linked to the monster you want to learn a skill from", and "devour the monster alive to learn a skill". I will mention that there likely would have to be caveats or exceptions in terms of how abilities are gained, which I consider a fair point; this, however, does not mean the job should be secluded from other jobs as a result. There's no reason BLU couldn't have been implemented within the design paradigms of BLM and SMN but with the task of having to learn their spells out in the world (with appropriate locks on Duty Finder to prevent BLUs with only the starter spells from queuing; the tech is already there since DF prevents access to dungeons, trials and roulettes if you don't meet certain requirements like level, ilevel and content clears).

I like Blue Mage for the fact that it wipes out FATES like those were nothing as compared to other jobs it takes a few minutes to do, and FATES are not the most engaging thing in this game most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

I like Blue Mage for the fact and wipes out FATES like those were nothing as compared to other jobs it takes a few minutes to do, and FATES are not the most engaging thing in this game most of the time.

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So, because it, effectively, breaks content -- often making it impossible for other jobs to participate (to the point of silver or better rewards)?

Don't get me wrong, FATEs as presently designed kinda suck, and getting through them faster is quite the personal benefit, but if an unfair advantage is the primary thing going for a given toolkit...

It's fun side content. And I think that's fine personally. Jobs they add as limited jobs are likely things they weren't going to add as normal jobs anyway.

You could make blu as a normal job, sure. But that would mean giving it a standard set rotation/toolkit and a job gauge and making it play by the same rules as every other job. It could be done. But I think it's good to have side content like limited jobs. Not everything has to be about the loot treadmill, I think having some things like this are good for the game.

It's true that blue mage, and characters obviously inspired by blue mage like Quina and Strago, have had varying ways of learning the spells. But it's also true that there's always been a collection aspect to it, whatever the method is. And as a normal job they'd be limited to leveling up and the occasional job quest. The LORE of the job could be tied to studying monsters and mimicing them but the actual collection aspect would be missing as a normal job.

Which could have worked. Every job, to varying degrees, is changed in FFXIV to fit into the mold. From minor things like black mages having different functions for fire/lightning/blizzard spells instead of them all being the same spell with different elemental attributes. To bigger changes like dark knight losing its hp sacrificing to focus tanking, or summoners having more persistent WoW style pets. (Though they've been trying to improve on this aspect the last couple expansions.)

But I think a big part of the appeal of blue mage would be lost if they fit it into that mold and lost the collection aspect. And for better or worse this isn't the kind of game where they're going to design a main job that's 'that' different from the others and require so much extra work to get its full toolkit available.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

There's no reason BLU couldn't have been implemented within the design paradigms of BLM and SMN but with the task of having to learn their spells out in the world (with appropriate locks on Duty Finder to prevent BLUs with only the starter spells from queuing; the tech is already there since DF prevents access to dungeons, trials and roulettes if you don't meet certain requirements like level, ilevel and content clears).

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I thought about that, but what if the requirements the duty finder sets on needing certain spells conflict with the other players you get matched up with. You may have all the spells (that the devs set the bar to) that you need, but someone (or multiple) could think nah that's not good enough and try to dismiss you from the duty. You seldom have other jobs kicked for not having X or Y action because you get a lot from just leveling up or players have done their job quests, but with BLU it could leave many with a bad experience. I know you mentioned current requirements like lvl/ilvl/clears etc, but those tend to effect your ability to compete a duty (and are not job specific) much more than not knowing a few (BLU) spells.

Honestly with the update they gave on being able to save BLU hotbar setups, I expect it to be a blueprint (blue, get it?) for another limited job. The framework is there, I don't see it changing... at least no time soon.

They technically could, yes, put locks in place but it's not a decision I see this dev team ever actually doing. BLU would stick out like a sore thumb as the ONLY job that has to jump through extra hoops just to do content, and that itself would lead to a section of the community complaining about it. It's not a choice I ever see them realistically making. Having to do your job quests for a few spells is one thing, having to go out and farm dozens of spells from enemies out in the world is another.

For better or worse the main jobs in this game are far too streamlined for them to take that approach with a new job to single out as having to do all this extra stuff just to function. The collection aspect would only ever work, in the greater context of FFXIV's design philosophy, as a limited job and side content.