Pld once again got the short stick.

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Originally Posted by Airget

What if they added a chance at DEF down with Flash lol, since it's an AOE rather then giving PLD an damage AOE this would allow them to help other DD's fight the group of mobs in the area by reducing their defense. Or maybe have Flash grant greater enmity based on the amount of mobs inflicted by it, so if it's 5 mobs it'll be twice as potent and if it's 10 mobs it'll be three times as potent.

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Thats kinda a good idea too. Honestly I'm not all too keen on the fact that they JUST seemed to raise plds damage because thats not particularly what was breaking it.

-Parrys
-MP
-Lack of AoE prowess

in addition flash could be useful for those white mages who accidently take hate early because the tank hasn't gotten all of the enemeis. but it would need to change to target a party member and effect enemies around it. Then the traits gld gets could lower defense and inflict blind.

PLD should not be made to be somekind of damage dealer, im sorry devs but its just not going to work. paladin is a hybrid tank/healer and should be built as such.

To the devs:
If you want GLA to be a damage dealer, please I urge you to consider the Templar or Soldier builds in my guide :o

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I will wait and actually listen to the opinions of In-Game Paladins post patch, and watch their performance personally before commenting on the level of butthurt I see here.

I'm of the opinion that AoE Damage is irrelevant compared to AoE hate management for Paladin. So long as they solidify it better and have higher overall damage reduction, then they're good. When Murader's lose hate, especially on group activities, it can cause a bit of death and loss. PLDs should ideally have better hate control.

It's that later part that casts me into doubt. I'm in agreement that PLD should have lower timers to help on all fronts. But I'll wait and see what these adjustments do.

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But how is PLD supposed to keep AOE hate when the only AOE it has is Flash and then relies on self action enmity such as healing, even then a couple and all ur MP gones. Least with WAR they can pop out steel cyclone and other AOE's WS's often which generate way more hate at a faster rate.

I think this is the issue, but i cant speak from experience, only what I am seeing, that PLD is just not good in groups. Plus it cant do any decent damage.

War has everything
- High HP
- Decent DEF
- Very good DMG
- Very good aoe hate management

Why pick a PLD that cant do half of those things XD

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Originally Posted by viion

But how is PLD supposed to keep AOE hate when the only AOE it has is Flash and then relies on self action enmity such as healing, even then a couple and all ur MP gones. Least with WAR they can pop out steel cyclone and other AOE's WS's often which generate way more hate at a faster rate.

I think this is the issue, but i cant speak from experience, only what I am seeing, that PLD is just not good in groups. Plus it cant do any decent damage.

War has everything
- High HP
- Decent DEF
- Very good DMG
- Very good aoe hate management

Why pick a PLD that cant do half of those things XD

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Sentinel >> War Drum >> Flash >> Rampart

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

As for hate gain give padadin it own aoe provoke so itll have both Flash and that its own aoe to help with large groups.

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Clearly you have no idea War Drum or Rampart exist. I'm only level 33 PLD and I can tell I already know my job better than you.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24666928/do-...ay-paladin.jpg

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Originally Posted by Airget

What if they added a chance at DEF down with Flash lol, since it's an AOE rather then giving PLD an damage AOE this would allow them to help other DD's fight the group of mobs in the area by reducing their defense..

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This! As most partys focus on killing mobs asap. And let's face it, PLD will never be given high damage abilities. But if PLD can reduce mobs defence and make it so DD's can kill mobs quicker, PLD might be more required in a party.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Thats kinda a good idea too. Honestly I'm not all too keen on the fact that they JUST seemed to raise plds damage because thats not particularly what was breaking it.

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Raising PLD's damage seemed more like they were just trying to make it so PLD doesn't have even more trouble with Enmity issues after boosting some of the DD's damage. In essence it's more of a "Hey we know you guys are struggling, so were gonna give you a boost so you don't suck any harder than you already do."

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Clearly you have no idea War Drum or Rampart exist. I'm only level 33 PLD and I can tell I already know my job better than you.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24666928/do-...ay-paladin.jpg

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Did you not read the post i made about the cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

I play pld the more frequent block was a great walk in the right direction. But The long recast for all the Blocking combos are whats hurting now. As for hate gain give padadin it own aoe provoke so itll have both Flash and that its own aoe to help with large groups. But War having TOWERING hp over pld is what makes War better. like fighting CC warrior can survive its aoe ws were as a pld with most likly be one shotted. Oh tell Pld to wear pld gear War can wear the same exact thing and survive even better.

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Just incase you need help reading buddy

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Raising PLD's damage seemed more like they were just trying to make it so PLD doesn't have even more trouble with Enmity issues after boosting some of the DD's damage. In essence it's more of a "Hey we know you guys are struggling, so were gonna give you a boost so you don't suck any harder than you already do."

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Ah that makes sense as well

So forgive my ignorance, having only played GLA/PLD up to 33. But why, exactly, is it the case that PLDs have such a hard time keeping hate with Flash? It has the exact same cooldown as Steel Cyclone, no TP cost to muck things up, and has the nice perk of Blind on top. MRD/WAR has Whirlwind on a 1.33 minute timer so another burst of hate once every 4th 30s cycle. Meanwhile, GLA/PLD has Rampart, Sentinel, and War Drum (War Drum alone should be enough to put GLA/PLD back in the mix with a mere 1 minute cooldown). Flash's and War Drum's enmity would have to be absolutely abysmal to not come out on top, given that.

So could someone explain to me why this is such a big problem?